Read by Council Make Homebases Vulnerable, Without Losing Everything

[Lecic]

joel used bugs to dupe blocks for his big ass titan. no one gets that large that fast legitimatly

Did he? I heard he was constantly shooting shops to eat the TG fleet, and using newbies for slave labor to do it for him.

 

[Blaza612]

At what point did I resort to calling people a retard when someone disagrees with me?

You didn't? At what point did I say that? Seriously, stop putting words in my mouth. And if you're referring to me, I was calling you disabled for quoting the two things that very clearly state what you were confused about, and yet you were still assuming I wanted the game to be about war.

And I am sorry but am I supposed to be threatened by you when you tell me to fuck off multiple times?

That's not the intention, but if you feel that way then oh well, I just tend to swear a lot.

I will still be here, and I dont plan on leaving anytime soon.

Good for you, until you decide to actually contribute, you will have no influence on this.

 

[Imagination01]

People seem to think that the solution to this is "Just deplete their faction points" how are you going to do that when as soon as you attack and kill someone once to the loss of a whopping 20 (approx) faction points out of thousands, they proceed to hide in their homebase/log of until you leave, and that there is no other stations for your to or territory to claim since there is no need to do any of those things if you have a homebase
[DOUBLEPOST=1450332381,1450332318][/DOUBLEPOST]I have concluded that the reason people prefer to keep homebase mechanics the way they are is because this mechanic benefits them when they get attacked.
[DOUBLEPOST=1450332487][/DOUBLEPOST]

Im sorry im the one not being serious? At what point did I resort to calling people a retard when someone disagrees with me? And I am sorry but am I supposed to be threatened by you when you tell me to fuck off multiple times? When you want to have a professional conversation without the childish "fuck you's" I will still be here, and I dont plan on leaving anytime soon.

I have also concluded that you are here exclusively to troll, you have posted nothing to disagree with you have just trolled, nothing else
[DOUBLEPOST=1450332993][/DOUBLEPOST]

we do have a reason to leave home base: supplies
you cant manufactor ships without raw input of ores or shop runs for items (corse ya need credits... witch... wait for it... you need to leave your base to get)

99% of people set up their homebase within 1 jump (or even in the same sector as) of a shop and they simply will not undock is enemies are nearby, they CAN scan the entire system their homebase is in.

Wow, this thread is a mess. Almost as bad as the original suggestion.

Starmade isn't Rust, there's no reason taking a home base should be any easier than it currently is. If you really want to assault a base, attack their satellite outposts.

Since when does this suggestion have anything to do with RUST?
And there is no need for satellite outposts, homebases can do everything an outpost can do, Nobody builds outposts = no outposts to attack

 

[Blaza612]

People seem to think that the solution to this is "Just deplete their faction points" how are you going to do that when as soon as you attack and kill someone once to the loss of a whopping 20 (approx) faction points out of thousands, they proceed to hide in their homebase/log of until you leave, and that there is no other stations for your to or territory to claim since there is no need to do any of those things if you have a homebase

While most do, some have been posting about how to rebalance them, which will make FP drain as other stuff happens, (can't remember the conditions :p)

I have concluded that the reason people prefer to keep homebase mechanics the way they are is because this mechanic benefits them when they get attacked.

That is what's happening, most are using newbies as a reason, which isn't really a reason in itself. :p

I have also concluded that you are here exclusively to troll, you have posted nothing to disagree with you have just trolled, nothing else

I've been having to deal with the same shit-flinging this thread has gotten, over and over again, the same bloody terrible reason of "Oh, but what about the newbies", which were resolved long before! Thus, I snapped quite easily...

 

[Lecic]

99% of people set up their homebase within 1 jump (or even in the same sector as) of a shop and they simply will not undock is enemies are nearby, they CAN scan the entire system their homebase is in.

How long do you think a single shop can support a faction larger than 1 guy just flying fighters?

Since when does this suggestion have anything to do with RUST?
And there is no need for satellite outposts, homebases can do everything an outpost can do, Nobody builds outposts = no outposts to attack

People seem to think that the solution to this is "Just deplete their faction points" how are you going to do that when as soon as you attack and kill someone once to the loss of a whopping 20 (approx) faction points out of thousands, they proceed to hide in their homebase/log of until you leave, and that there is no other stations for your to or territory to claim since there is no need to do any of those things if you have a homebase

It seems I am being forced to repeat myself.

You guys are still looking at things through the lens of the current meta. The future gameplay is going to be about larger, partially AI controlled fleets defending a wide number of your own stations outside the HB.

 

[Blaza612]

How long do you think a single shop can support a faction larger than 1 guy just flying fighters?




It seems I am being forced to repeat myself.

The reason I haven't been answering, is that I don't know how. I have literally no thoughts on that. :p

 

[max stripe]

Did he? I heard he was constantly shooting shops to eat the TG fleet, and using newbies for slave labor to do it for him.

he got banned for bug abuse and duping from what intel i got
could be doing both tho

 

[nightrune]

Since when does this suggestion have anything to do with RUST?
And there is no need for satellite outposts, homebases can do everything an outpost can do, Nobody builds outposts = no outposts to attack

With the rebalanced faction points posted earlier there is a reason. Since its the only way to gain faction points.

 

[Kirosha]

This system may not seem perfect to you, but this is the best I can come up with, and so far, nobodies proposed any better systems, only saying no because they want invulnerability, or that it already exists. If there are any better systems to do this, then for the love of god, put them here so we can improve it, and make it a system that everyone can agree on. I'd rather not have to deal with "How about no?" and having to repeat myself.

The biggest problem with your suggestion is that it becomes far too complicated. Sometimes the best solution is a simple approach. I'd love to see bigger factions lose their invulnerable stations as well, but let us instead change it to based on faction points. When a faction reaches "number" of points, they lose invulnerability. When it drops below "number" it regains it.

I state your system is too complicated and give an example of a simple system. I've yet to hear a specific problem with my system


00000

Current abilities to lose faction points vs upcoming ways to lose faction points.

You remember that the plan involves increased cost to faction points right? Diplomacy, Personal Quests and so forth?

00000

The need for shops is ultimately limited. Anything a shop can sell, outside of the advanced shops with the shopkeeper, I can build. Considering my system is designed to protect small/new factions I'll be mentioning that larger factions more than a little likely have plenty of resources saved up to be able to withstand a siege effectively. Currently if a large faction were to be shoved into the corner of staying at their home base and they are wise enough to not leave it for a while, can simply hop into SP for testing or into another server till the heat dies down. Name a single person willing to sit outside of a factions home base for several weeks each day for the off chance that someone will log in to undock?

No large factions will be adequately supplied or alternatively have their one miner and all their faction power defending it as it does it's job. You'd have to be lucky to find where they jump to in the first place since you can charge a JD while docked. The argument of inhibitors means that if they can't charge them while docked, they won't be stupid enough to try to fly away to charge them. Then you still have the issue of being at their home base 24/7 to catch them undocking or redocking on any supply runs. Remember that they can jump into their own sector without them pesky invulnerable turrets making a mess of things.

Oh and since none of that station needs shield caps or recs that is room for extra boom.

00000

Rebalanced Faction Points are a possibility but even then I think that system is a bit of a screwup. With the upcoming features showing the main form of payment is in FPs (already in development by Schine), new players and small factions will be crippled.

00000

Partially AI controlled fleets are an upcoming feature but the issue is still the fact that 90% of a faction's fleet power can easily be docked and made invulnerable on that single home base. AI fleets, if I understand this right, will be controlled by crew members and crew members will be receiving skills/experience which will boost their effectiveness. You won't be having your best out in the black, they'll be on your flagships/warships which again will be invulnerable 99% of the time. AI fleets don't have to be made of throw away ships but the majority of them will be mass produced and feasibly easily overtaken by a player's personal ships.

Yes, you could give that Bobby AI the flagship and it could manage to take out other peoples personal cruisers and the like but until we know more about the additional commands fleet AI will bring I'm going to assume most will be drones, fighters, carriers (maybe) and escorts and they'll be mass produced using cheap(er) materials.

 

[haserd2]

People seem to think that the solution to this is "Just deplete their faction points" how are you going to do that when as soon as you attack and kill someone once to the loss of a whopping 20 (approx) faction points out of thousands, they proceed to hide in their homebase/log of until you leave, and that there is no other stations for your to or territory to claim since there is no need to do any of those things if you have a homebase
[DOUBLEPOST=1450332381,1450332318][/DOUBLEPOST]I have concluded that the reason people prefer to keep homebase mechanics the way they are is because this mechanic benefits them when they get attacked.
[DOUBLEPOST=1450332487][/DOUBLEPOST]

I have also concluded that you are here exclusively to troll, you have posted nothing to disagree with you have just trolled, nothing else
[DOUBLEPOST=1450332993][/DOUBLEPOST]

99% of people set up their homebase within 1 jump (or even in the same sector as) of a shop and they simply will not undock is enemies are nearby, they CAN scan the entire system their homebase is in.



Since when does this suggestion have anything to do with RUST?
And there is no need for satellite outposts, homebases can do everything an outpost can do, Nobody builds outposts = no outposts to attack

I dont mean to seem as if I am here to troll and I apologize for that. My honest opinion is that no this system has no reason to be changed as theres nothing really broken or change worthy about it. What needs to be changed is for us to be given an incentive to claim other territories so to give other people something to attack. I am sure when the updates concerning AI crews are added THEN we may have something added to allow AI's to control a faction outpost, similar to how pirate bases act (Just under faction control). This could possibly lead to some sort of trade mechanic between the home base and the outposts yielding a various amount of resources (trade routes the enemy factions can plunder). Then we have an incentive of a passive resource gain to actually get us to setup outposts in other systems.

we can resolve the issue by giving FP a use as well. Per say if a war dec is to be made it requires a small amount of faction points, if peace is to be made it will require a much greater amount of FP. Maybe even have war only begin if both parties agree to have a war, this leaves the people who want to just play peacefully to have their fun and let the people who want to wage war do so.

 

[Kirosha]

we can resolve the issue by giving FP a use as well. Per say if a war dec is to be made it requires a small amount of faction points, if peace is to be made it will require a much greater amount of FP. Maybe even have war only begin if both parties agree to have a war, this leaves the people who want to just play peacefully to have their fun and let the people who want to wage war do so.

Schine already has this in the works, all diplomacy will require FPs and eventually NPC factions can give quests that will award FPs and PC Factions can give out quests like a Bounty of <Number> FP to kill <Player> and so forth.

So we just have to wait for this to come out.

 

[haserd2]

Schine already has this in the works, all diplomacy will require FPs and eventually NPC factions can give quests that will award FPs and PC Factions can give out quests like a Bounty of <Number> FP to kill <Player> and so forth.

So we just have to wait for this to come out.

Aye forgot this was a thing. Glad you pointed it out to me again thanks

 

[NeonSturm]

This thread is a MESS :p
This thread is a MESS :p
Can't repeat it often enough ​

First, limit home-base abilities.

1. Titan-Shipyard? Fine.
2. Being able to process resources for it? Better don't allow many factories other than for basic production of small miners to get started again.

No player may camp 24/7, but he could create a mine-field and jump-inhibitors around the enemy spawn.

1. mine-field
2. turret/drone/AI-field

Not vulnerable or invulnerable home-bases are the issue, the chance for mobbing is when invulnerability is removed.

Also, Warp-Gates are vulnerable satellite-outposts as somebody mentioned.
If "nomads" (mostly 1-man-factions?) are supplied with a default home in a TG shop (example: blueprint files once they are material items) that requires several jumps to reach, there is a possibility to catch them on their journey there.

 

[Lecic]

Partially AI controlled fleets are an upcoming feature but the issue is still the fact that 90% of a faction's fleet power can easily be docked and made invulnerable on that single home base. AI fleets, if I understand this right, will be controlled by crew members and crew members will be receiving skills/experience which will boost their effectiveness. You won't be having your best out in the black, they'll be on your flagships/warships which again will be invulnerable 99% of the time. AI fleets don't have to be made of throw away ships but the majority of them will be mass produced and feasibly easily overtaken by a player's personal ships.

If you dedicate 90% of your fleet to sitting docked at the HB, you'd be wasting materials and making it very easy for people to steal your territory.

 

[Raging Capuchin]

Humble noob opinion, completely remove the faction point cost for dying in owned territory.

My reason? As a noob who would be completely destroyed should any proper faction decide to harass me I have two options when someone is camped outside my base.
1) Defend my homebase and prevent EVERYTHING I own and worked for from being lost by dun dun dun NOT fighting.
2) Go out and fight valiantly knowing I wont do anything more than make my base more vulnerable.

3) If I would not lose FP dying in my territory, but the raider trying to "siege, drain-fp, remove stations, and misc" could lose faction points dying in my territory I have much more of a reason to go out and fight.

Don't make it counter intuitive to defend all my hard work by stupidly enough not defending it.
Mechanics are needed to make the system more engaging, not all these absolute morons wanting to remove a player(s) entire presence on a server.

It has been said plenty of times by people more experienced than me with the game, there are far more entertaining options to promote fighting and getting rewards/punishments than removing homebases.

I really don't think homebase destruction should even be possible in the stock game like it is. The homebase invulnerability is there for many damn good reasons and removal of that would ruin all multiplayer interaction. Instead of losing FP unprotecting the single more important thing for a player, it should reward the victor and find a way to punish the loser without removing them.

PS. Being an idiotic teenager who cusses all the time because you think it makes you edgy is just going to have people keep laughing at you.

 

[Blaza612]

I state your system is too complicated and give an example of a simple system. I've yet to hear a specific problem with my system

My apologies on that, I must have missed quoting it. I don't find much a problem with it, the only thing is that small factions should still be able to be destroyed, because I imagine that they'd still want to go to war with each other. The only problem then, is that they can be roflstomped, which is why I have this complicated magical system, so that both small and large factions can duke it out with other factions of similar sizes. The items would allow factions to have invulnerability for up to 48 hours at a time, and they would be provided with ample time to prepare, as well as the various buffs the items provide to help in keeping the homebase defended. It may not keep small factions from being roflstomped all the time, but it does allow significantly more freedom when it comes to factions going to war with eachother.

PS. Being an idiotic teenager who cusses all the time because you think it makes you edgy is just going to have people keep laughing at you.

I was inclined to agree with you mostly, but now I feel less so. It really doesn't matter whether someone swears or not, or the frequency in which they do it, personally, I don't see any problems with it, and it's simply just how I talk, you may not like it, but so far you've only chosen to insult me on the matter, thus your word on it will hold no real significance. And edgy? Still not sure what it means to be "edgy", but whatever it is, I'm pretty sure I ain't. :p

Humble noob opinion, completely remove the faction point cost for dying in owned territory.

My reason? As a noob who would be completely destroyed should any proper faction decide to harass me I have two options when someone is camped outside my base.
1) Defend my homebase and prevent EVERYTHING I own and worked for from being lost by dun dun dun NOT fighting.
2) Go out and fight valiantly knowing I wont do anything more than make my base more vulnerable.

3) If I would not lose FP dying in my territory, but the raider trying to "siege, drain-fp, remove stations, and misc" could lose faction points dying in my territory I have much more of a reason to go out and fight.

Don't make it counter intuitive to defend all my hard work by stupidly enough not defending it.
Mechanics are needed to make the system more engaging, not all these absolute morons wanting to remove a player(s) entire presence on a server.

It has been said plenty of times by people more experienced than me with the game, there are far more entertaining options to promote fighting and getting rewards/punishments than removing homebases.

I really don't think homebase destruction should even be possible in the stock game like it is. The homebase invulnerability is there for many damn good reasons and removal of that would ruin all multiplayer interaction. Instead of losing FP unprotecting the single more important thing for a player, it should reward the victor and find a way to punish the loser without removing them.

Now for the rest of your post. I understand your concern, and the system I proposed is designed to still allow small/newbie factions to survive, (I believe that I'm meant to add in the 24 online hours of protection :p) while still allowing people to freely go to war, and kill eachother, even if it does allow roflstomping. The way I see it, if you want your homebase to be protected/safe, then you should work for it, and the same goes for any station, thus the items exist to give your homebase the necessary buffs to keep your homebase alive. The system would also allow you to go to war with another player, while there isn't too much of an incentive now, there definitely be more incentives to go to war, thus this would allow you actually cause damage, instead of everything docking to the homebase immediately.

You guys are still looking at things through the lens of the current meta. The future gameplay is going to be about larger, partially AI controlled fleets defending a wide number of your own stations outside the HB.

Formulated a though! \o/

That is a very good point, but will only work if there will actually be some sort of FP drain when it comes to destroying stations, that way, you can make the homebase vulnerable.

 

[Lecic]

I was inclined to agree with you mostly, but now I feel less so. It really doesn't matter whether someone swears or not, or the frequency in which they do it, personally, I don't see any problems with it, and it's simply just how I talk, you may not like it, but so far you've only chosen to insult me on the matter, thus your word on it will hold no real significance. And edgy? Still not sure what it means to be "edgy", but whatever it is, I'm pretty sure I ain't. :p

That is a very good point, but will only work if there will actually be some sort of FP drain when it comes to destroying stations, that way, you can make the homebase vulnerable.

I'm pretty sure there's currently a drain on FP when a claim station is destroyed. Combine that with an inverted FP config (players drain, territory gives) and you've got a pretty nasty problem if someone goes and starts blowing your stations up.

Of course, in a future where it is necessary to hold lots of stations, planets, and potentially gas giants to gain resources through AI miners/mantle extractors, having HB protection drop wouldn't even be necessary. If you blow up all of a faction's mines and, presumably, the fleets guarding them, they're basically dead anyway.

I think an FP drain based on the total mass of docked ships on a HB would be a nice addition. It'd prevent people from just keeping their entire fleet at the HB, so that even if the mines get blown up, they can easily rebuild.

 

[NeonSturm]

If you dedicate 90% of your fleet to sitting docked at the HB, you'd be wasting materials and making it very easy for people to steal your territory.

If you dedicate less, a single enemy super-titan crushes your other stuff 1by1. I'd like to hear a fix like limited invasion fleet size, etc.

If you are inferior in single-point focus-strength, what are you supposed to do except evasive maneuvers and un-building/building, aka moving your stations out of his way?

 

[Lecic]

If you dedicate less, a single enemy super-titan crushes your other stuff 1by1. I'd like to hear a fix like limited invasion fleet size, etc.

If you are inferior in single-point focus-strength, what are you supposed to do except evasive maneuvers and un-building/building, aka moving your stations out of his way?

Presumably there'd be some sort of way to have your AI fleets react to an invader. If only one spot of your country is currently under attack, why would you not leave anything but a skeleton crew to guard everything else while their normal fleet reports to the main battle zone?

 

[NeonSturm]

Presumably there'd be some sort of way to have your AI fleets react to an invader. If only one spot of your country is currently under attack, why would you not leave anything but a skeleton crew to guard everything else while their normal fleet reports to the main battle zone?

I know, but what if this main force or even the whole is not sufficient to repel the single enemy super-titan?
Either

• Your territory will be defence-less and the fleet suicides.
• You lose 1 outpost after another and can only watch it happen, even if you are online at that time.

There really needs to be a limit on how much damage a player can receive.

Perhaps when you once owned 100 billion, you should get 10 billion insurance - always a fraction of what you own.

But then there needs to be some clean-up system (scavengers) in place to clean up player-made abandoned things, so you can not just disown and get your insurance before re-capturing the stuff that's made to be easy re-cap-able.