Read by Council Make Homebases Vulnerable, Without Losing Everything

[GRHayes]

The problem is that it isn't a good system. Homebases are invulnerable, so why would you ever want to build another station, when you can have everything 100% protected, 24/7. This is what kills any desire to go to war, since, you can never destroy anything of the enemy faction, because they'll just sit at their home and never take any damage.

Because you need to to claim another sector!

 

[Blaza612]

Because you need to to claim another sector!

But you don't? The only sector you need is the one on which the homebase exists in, there is nothing that makes you build any other stations.

 

[GRHayes]

But you don't? The only sector you need is the one on which the homebase exists in, there is nothing that makes you build any other stations.

I get a person can choose to never claim another sector.

The problem isn't the system it is the fact you don't have enough people competing for resources. That is the real issue.
If they did they would be fighting over territory and trying to claim more than one sector.

With the changes they have planned regarding resources that may be what is needed. However it will most likely take drawing in a lot more people to the game. After all a person could just fly off to tim-buck-to and create his base where it would take a long time to even find them.

Honestly the way most people play the game if you take this constant away you are only going to cause more people to quit.

It probably wouldn't hurt to have a server setting to make homebases vulnerable. That way if someone does want that option they could have it but the system shouldn't be thrown out entirely.

 

[Dire Venom]

Really creative ideas OP!
We need more players to get thinking about these topics so we can come up with a functional, but elegant solution that fits most players.
I agree that the current system needs to be re-done, but trying to balance a new one would be a nightmare.

It's pretty much impossible to drain a faction's FP with the current configuration, unless they are completely retarded.

Hell, would be nice to scan or see how much FP a faction has somehow.

I think, that for now the faction points system should be re-done. As said above, I have never seen a factions points reach 0 before, and most factions currently have many thousands of faction points lying about.
One of the problems is how hard it is for a faction to LOSE points. That obviously has to change.

Heres a couple of ideas which just occurred to me:
-Your faction block gets an inventory of a set size.
-Homebases are no longer invunrable
-You can place items inside the limited inventory which will temporarily buff your station by a huge magnitude (say 10-1000 times) so it becomes esstienly unbeatable for a period of time
-Bases under a certian mass/number of blocks are invunrable (new player protection?)

Some of my ideas are pretty terrible XD but theyre still ideas, and by sifting throug lots of bad ones well eventualy find some really good ones : )

So, what we all seem to want in a solution is:
---->A re-work of the faction point system
---->Some changes to how invulnerability works
---->More interaction between players
Any other set things we can all agree on:?

Cheers

 

[Blaza612]

-You can place items inside the limited inventory which will temporarily buff your station by a huge magnitude (say 10-1000 times) so it becomes esstienly unbeatable for a period of time

TOO MUCH YES! THIS IS PERFECT! Hopefully you don't mind me altering the OP :p

But yeah, allow specific items to buff your homebase. Some ideas for said items:

Magical Fuel of Forcefulness: This will make your homebase invulnerable for an amount of time, which is determined via the amount of MFF you put into the homebase. Note, this does not replace the standard invulnerability thing, but in fact adds onto it, up to a total of 48 hours.

Uber Antimatter: This will give your cannons are 2x damage boost for an amount of time, again, determined via the amount of UA you put in.

Pulsating Lens: Improves the tick rate (and thus, DPS) for 24 hours, and is destroyed at the end of that time. Note: Unlike other things, this cannot be removed, and will only free the slot at the end of the 24 hours, when it's destroyed.

Mini Nuke: This doubles the blast radius of missiles, but 1 is used up every shot rather than after an amount of time

Extra EMP: This doubles the damage of damage pulses, but the added damage is an EMP effect. Only one can be present at a time, and is used up after 10 successful hits.

Plextanium Projectile Protector: This will increase the range of all weapons by 2.5x, and will use up one of both types of scrap, or if need be, alloyed metal mesh, and once there is no scrap/mesh present, then it will break. Note: This cannot be removed, and will only free up the slot once destroyed

Super Drilly Thingy: Adds punch through for all weapons, lasts in the same way the PPP does.

Robotic Sweat Shop: Halves the time it takes for factories to produce things, lasts 24 hours, and is then destroyed.

Magic Moving Arms: Doubles the speed in which Shipyards build, and even gives back 5% of the capsules used (Capsules, not raw ore). One is used per construction.

Stealth Boy: Cloaks the homebase (and it's docked/tethered entities) for 24 hours, cannot be removed until 24 hours is up, and will be destroyed at end.

Dirty Bomb: When the homebase reaches 70% structure HP, is will trigger a massive nuked, doing a retarded amount of damage to all entities that aren't docked/tethered to the homebase. One is used per trigger.

Dirty Shank: When the homebase reaches 70% structure HP, it will trigger a massive EMP which disables all entities that aren't docked/tethered to the homebase, and will cause a rapid recharge of the shields to 60%. One is used per trigger.

Dirty Port: When the homebase reaches 70% structure HP, if the transporter doesn't have a destination, then it will transport ALL entities that are docked/tethered to the homebase to a random sector, with a range of 4 sectors. I will avoid stars. If a destination is set to an enemy entity, then it will transport all crew onto said entity, shutting down the enemies shields, and giving the boarders access to the ship. The docked entities will be transported to a random sector as usual. One is used per trigger.

As you may be able to tell, there are many things that can give HUGE buffs to homebases, and will allow the 4 hours of invulnerability to be justified, as players can put time/effort into making their homebase immortal. The dirty buffs are quite obviously used as a last resort mechanism, to hopefully turn the tide, and save the base at just the last minute. If Dire Venom doesn't mind, I'll add this into the OP. :p
[DOUBLEPOST=1450167358,1450166401][/DOUBLEPOST]Buff system and magical items now in OP, hopefully it can turn those Bloody awfuls around. :p

 

[Dire Venom]

TOO MUCH YES! THIS IS PERFECT! Hopefully you don't mind me altering the OP :p

[DOUBLEPOST=1450167358,1450166401][/DOUBLEPOST]Buff system and magical items now in OP, hopefully it can turn those Bloody awfuls around. :p

^Go ahead! Its really good to see people discussing it in a (civilized) manner>

I was thinking along the lines of bases requiring 'fuel' to remain (basically) invulnerable, a similar mechanic to some pvp games. (however itd need to be balanced so a faction doesnt need to have players on constantly to keep it topped up)
Maybe instead of homebases getting destroyed de-buffs could be applied to the faction:? e.g having your homebase under seige has some effect on your faction.
(Since not all players can afford to constantly be on, or might lose internet etc)
Moving your homebase should also be costly, (e.g, currently you can put it all in your pocket and spawn it somewhere else).

The main problem is that there will always be someone with a 6 mill plus block ship who will be able to easily stomp out whoever they chose unless all bases are insanely powerful, its very difficult to balance.

Maybe the total mass of docked objects to your homebase causes a drain on your faction points:?

AH! I just had another idea mid post.

What if enemy bases within your factions territory cause a drain on your factions points:? The drain would also depend on how active the targeted faction, (thus factions which arent on much, therefore can't fight back much experienced a reduced drain because they're less active?)
A larger drain could also apply if enemy bases are in the same system as your home base and your faction didn't own the territory. (obviously faction homes dont cause a drain)

The drain could also start off slow, then speed up:?
Anyway, end result: If your home territory is occupied for too long you have to pack up and move base before it becomes vulnerable (essentially a 'siege' on your base) or you let it run down, the enemy now has supremacy in that territory and can attack your home base.

Obviously these ideas would need to be fleshed out a whole lot more, but I have a feeling that were onto the right track : )

 

[Blaza612]

^Go ahead!

I was thinking along the lines of bases requiring 'fuel' to remain (basically) invulnerable, a similar mechanic to some pvp games. (however itd need to be balanced so a faction doesnt need to have players on constantly to keep it topped up)
Maybe instead of homebases getting destroyed de-buffs could be applied to the faction:? e.g having your homebase under seige has some effect on your faction.
(Since not all players can afford to constantly be on, or might lose internet etc)
Moving your homebase should also be costly, (e.g, currently you can put it all in your pocket and spawn it somewhere else).

The main problem is that there will always be someone with a 6 mill plus block ship who will be able to easily stomp out whoever they chose unless all bases are insanly powerful, its very difficult to balance.

Maybe the total mass of docked objects to your homebase causes a drain on your faction points:?

AH! I just had another idea mid post.

What if enemy bases within your factions territory cause a drain on your factions points:? The drain would also depend on how active the targeted faction, (thus factions which arent on much, therefore can't fight back much experienced a reduced drain because they're less active?)
A larger drain could also apply if enemy bases are in the same system as your home base and your faction didn't own the territory. (obviously faction homes dont cause a drain)

The drain could also start off slow, then speed up:?
Anyway, end result: If your home territory is occupied for too long you have to pack up and move base before it becomes vulnerable (essentially a 'siege' on your base) or you let it run down, the enemy now has supremacy in that territory and can attack your home base.

Obviously these ideas would need to be fleshed out a whole lot more, but I have a feeling that were onto the right track : )

Seriously, stop having such good ideas, I'm going to have a heart attack from the excitement. :p

In general very good, except for one part...

6 mill plus block ship

What most people don't seem to realize, is that the Cargo System is a massive (And soon to be effective) limiting factor for these kinds of ships, it would require MUCH more effort to build the 6 mil block ships, since they'll need a station or something equally big, to have the cargo needed to build it. Sure, they can still get there, but it will be MUCH harder now. It's just a matter of time before they become significantly less common.

 

[Dire Venom]

What most people don't seem to realize, is that the Cargo System is a massive (And soon to be effective) limiting factor for these kinds of ships, it would require MUCH more effort to build the 6 mil block ships, since they'll need a station or something equally big, to have the cargo needed to build it. Sure, they can still get there, but it will be MUCH harder now. It's just a matter of time before they become significantly less common.

Ah, thats probably because the server I spend most of my time on (Shattered skies) currently has 20x cargo capacity compared to the default 100 (its getting changed this week I think though)
I spend about 75% of my time building, 15% of it chatting 2-3% of it mining and the rest just mucking around.
That being said, once its fully implemented it will become a lot more challenging,

On that topic, I think some sort of extra protection for newer players would be welcome if home bases could be affected by other factions (since no amount of buffs is gonna protect that 2000 block station with a couple of refineries)

 

[starhaiden]

I would like effects to work on stations and be 2x more powerful on stations. The stop, push and pull could be changed to fit stations. E.g push effect changed so it increase turret range

 

[NeonSturm]

My opinion HomeFix (click, click)

Homebase-sectors can be attached into any empty sector.

This sector is like a shipyard for stations with delayed/manual? repair.
If stations are destroyed, the owner gets a set of blueprints (1 per chunk?) filled with the station + destroyed blocks.

Once detached, the owner has to re-attach it by transporting blocks to a target system.

(from spawn or a point where a few pirates may lurk ?).
This goes faster with a gate-network.

Chances are that a player will choose another sector for his base (or never re-attach it when inactive).​

Please commend on my thread if you like it HomeFix (click, click)

 

[Blaza612]

My opinion HomeFix (click, click)

Homebase-sectors can be attached into any empty sector.

This sector is like a shipyard for stations.

If destroyed, the owner can detach it to get destroyed things back.

Once detached, the owner has to re-attach it by transporting blocks to a target system.

The problem with that, is that I'm not entirely sure what it's on about. :p

I would suggest being more specific about everything in there, then I might be able to form an opinion on it.

 

[Kirosha]

The biggest problem with your suggestion is that it becomes far too complicated. Sometimes the best solution is a simple approach. I'd love to see bigger factions lose their invulnerable stations as well, but let us instead change it to based on faction points. When a faction reaches "number" of points, they lose invulnerability. When it drops below "number" it regains it.

It allows for new players and small factions to still have a safe docking zone and for large factions to duke it out with each other without having their entire fleet invulnerable. Any large faction getting beat back can still regain invulnerability through several possible means, whether by changing shipyards to also cost faction points to using in game systems of claiming as many sectors as possible at once, and therefore create a sort of balance between the two.

Or maybe I'm dreaming. But as for your suggestion? Too complicated to work smoothly at this point of the game.

 

[nightrune]

At this point I just think we need a faction point rebalance, and a way to turn off invulnerability on servers that don't want it.

 

[Kirosha]

They're already working on stuff concerning faction points, making them a requirement to use diplomacy and adding them as personal quest rewards such as bounty and so on and I could have sworn it was already an option to turn off invulnerability?

 

[nightrune]

They're already working on stuff concerning faction points, making them a requirement to use diplomacy and adding them as personal quest rewards such as bounty and so on and I could have sworn it was already an option to turn off invulnerability?

It might be, I haven't tested/looked.

 

[haserd2]

On a side note, I must ask, are you doing any kind of interaction with other players on said public server?[/FONT]



That's a problem entirely on it's own, and ultimately should be solved through different means than killing one of the biggest sources of fun for the game. And don't say war isn't the biggest source of fun, it always has been, is, and always will be.

Im sorry but when did a game where its main source of fun and enjoyment, building, be overtaken by war. By the amounts of civilian structures, trade stations, RP based ships, etc. I think that you are again wrong in your statement.

Your main point about star made is essentially, from what I am interpreting from the heaps of crap you are posting, is that the game MUST be focused entirely on war, combat, griefing, and all things that make the game fun for new and old players alike should be removed because you want Rust in space per say.

Go on and say that I am wrong but you are giving no counter argument to claim otherwise other than avoiding questions as you have done to the other people criticizing your points before me

 

[max stripe]

invulnerability for home bases is good because it allows those with school and other things to do IRL be able to go off without worrying about loosing everyhting while taking a math test

 

[Blaza612]

invulnerability for home bases is good because it allows those with school and other things to do IRL be able to go off without worrying about loosing everyhting while taking a math test

That's why there's still invulnerability, just more temporary so that people can actually go to war. :p

Im sorry but when did a game where its main source of fun and enjoyment, building, be overtaken by war. By the amounts of civilian structures, trade stations, RP based ships, etc. I think that you are again wrong in your statement.

Your main point about star made is essentially, from what I am interpreting from the heaps of crap you are posting, is that the game MUST be focused entirely on war, combat, griefing, and all things that make the game fun for new and old players alike should be removed because you want Rust in space per say.

Not sure if you know of the faction history, something that Lecic compiled, and also it's from what people have said, in Starmade and MANY other games. War has always been an extremely prominent thing in Starmade, and was one of the greatest sources of entertainment back when it was still around. The politics within the faction created a great desire to obliterate the opponent, and it worked well. But something that I've never stated, is that the game should be centered around war.

PvP can be very fun/tense, and massive battles can be simply amazing. However, they are tiny compared to a war, a war is long, drawn out, many battles and requires a significant amount of time/effort to win. The constant working towards winning forces players to work with every single mechanic, from the designing of better and better ships, to the acquisition of resources/credits, to being able to co-ordinate your fleet and pilot your ship, war utilizes all of the mechanics the game has to offer, to provide a longer experience, that isn't brought by any NPCs or lore, but by the players themselves, properly engaging all parties involved. A war isn't some made up lore, it becomes history, when players manage to wage a war, then they create history, and their own stories.

Now this whole suggestion is centered around war, but it doesn't mean the game should be centered around war, or that I want it to be. This suggestion is one of many that I've made, simply to open up a new mechanic, that'll ultimately benefit the game massively. It isn't perfect, but why else would I be asking for people's opinions/ideas? :p

Rust in space

I love this too much. :p

 

[Lecic]

Holy shit, no, just no.

The very last thing we need right now is massive factions getting to blow up any newbie's homebase.

I want to see it necessary for the survival of a faction to claim many systems, and to fight over those systems. That's plenty to blow up without being able to completely remove someone from the server.

 

[Blaza612]

The very last thing we need right now is massive factions getting to blow up any newbie's homebase.

While giving people the ability to blow up newbies isn't exactly good, it isn't entirely bad either. Keeping newbies all protected with infinite amounts of pillows, is bad. Not having any interaction or any threat will make the game less entertaining, and will ultimately bore them. By allowing them to have the threat form the start of the game, they aren't going to complain, they're going to set up defenses and actually care about their base. Some will rage-quit, most will strive to do better. Ultimately, throwing newbies into the world, where anything can kill them, will actually help with retention, and you'll find that those who rage-quit are in the minority. In EVE (Yes, I'm referring to it because the did a study on this EXACT thing) it was shown that <1% of newbies who were killed within the first 24 hours of EVE, actually ended up rage-quitting, while the rest stayed longer and enjoyed the game more than those who hadn't been killed within the first 24 hours.

And that wont only apply to EVE, that will apply to Starmade as well, especially with the direction that development is going. Now while it wont help the game in the short term, it'll help in the long term, when the world that Schine wants to make is actually here.

I want to see it necessary for the survival of a faction to claim many systems, and to fight over those systems. That's plenty to blow up without being able to completely remove someone from the server.

Last I checked this was already planned? Not entirely sure on that, but I think I remember Bench saying that they were going to do something along those lines.

But if player retention actually does suffer from this in the long run, then I guess we could have it that the home system can be taken, but the faction still claims the sector in which the home is in.

Spoiler: Off-Topic

One thing that I'd imagine happening, is that small factions (that of 1 or 2 members) would most likely end up being nomads, since a faction of 1 - 2 people isn't exactly a faction. Maybe we should have some sort of buffs for nomadic groups that are small, which'll allow them to survive the mega-factions, since not only will they not have a mega obvious homebase, but they'll also be constantly on the move, etc. etc.