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    StarMade v0.201.126 - Weapon Update

    Discussion in 'Game News' started by schema, Jul 10, 2018.

    1. Edymnion

      Edymnion Carebear Extraordinaire!

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      Agreed.

      I'd like to see traditional 1:1 cannon|cannon PDTs still be useful for smaller end missiles (sub 1,000 damage or so). Even before with machine gun fire, and a missile coming straight down the line of fire, it would usually get 3/4's of the way to your ship before it could be taken out.

      I don't mind needing different scaled PDTs, but right now it feels like we're sitting at a point where the best missile defense option is to shred the other ship before they can fire said missile. By the time you got a PDT powerful enough to take out a large missile, it looks like it would be shooting clear through the ship that launched the missile in the first place.

      I know I pulled 1 hp per 1k damage out of my rear end earlier, but that at least sounds far more practical. Lets traditional PDTs still play a role, and means medium and large missiles can be taken down with setups smaller than the ship that fired them.

      Might be a little better if beams could hit missiles now, haven't tried that. At least then it would become an issue of "How many ticks does it take for the missile to get here, and can my beam PDT take it down before it does?"
       
      #61 Edymnion, Jul 11, 2018
      Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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    2. jayman38

      jayman38 Precentor-Primus, pro-tempore

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      I agree that this new missile HP formula is too heavy. Maybe change the *10 at the end to /10 (yielding 1/100th the current values)
      Alternatively, removing the *10 at the end altogether will yield a missile HP of 1k at 1M damage, giving that 1HP per 1K damage value for an "average" missile.
       
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    3. Edymnion

      Edymnion Carebear Extraordinaire!

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      Did some quick experimenting.

      In Cannon/Cannon mode, each pair of cannon blocks does 4 points of damage. So to get a rapid fire PDT that does 100 damage requires a total of 50 cannon blocks (25 base, 25 support). Scale up to a turret that can stop a 1 million damage nuke? 5,000 cannon blocks. If they have greatly improve PDT aiming capabilities, might be able to get away with not having the full rapid fire, but yeah, its a whole mess of blocks.

      So yeah, I honestly believe missile HP is going to get a revisit. Right now we appear to be sitting at "PDTs are not viable", and I don't think thats a place they intended for us to be at.
       
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    4. NTIMESc

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      My point was that a small ship shouldn't expect to stop a powerful missile. If a large ship can trivially fire WMDs willy-nilly at every little ship that happens by, then missiles need more balance to make captains think twice before unleashing the nukes. Additionally, larger ships probably don't need to worry about smaller missiles getting through, and should have larger PD turrets prioritized on powerful missiles.

      In any case, I'd rather have missile HP nerfed than have everyone start adding dozens of more powerful turrets, as this just leads back to gigantism.
       
    5. Edymnion

      Edymnion Carebear Extraordinaire!

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      I disagree. You're shooting an armed bomb. It shouldn't take much at all to set it off. Good example IRL, Mythbusters did a test on if you could shoot a bazooka round with a pistol and detonate it mid-flight. The short answer is yes, you totally can because of how sensitive the detonator is.
      And as long as missiles require nothing but energy to reload, this will never happen, I'm afraid. Now, if we had to use actual blocks of ammo for them, and the amount of ammo required increased with damage output, AND you couldn't just make more ammo on the fly, then missiles would be something you'd think twice about using.

      Big ships are going to want quick kills. If its a question between 6 small shots that may or may not take it out, 1 shot that will probably take it out but might require another one, or 1 shot that will absolutely take it out no questions asked, virtually no one will fire anything but the nuke because, hey, if it vaporizes them, they've got all day to sit and reload. The only penalty to going too big is if it still isn't big enough.
      Not saying we shouldn't have scaled defenses. Just saying that it shouldn't take a turret the size of a mining ship to stop a nuke. Not when you'd still need a dozen of them to get enough coverage to actually ensure it didn't get through.
      Agreed.

      Right now, from the looks of it, the answer is a HARD push towards gigantism again, that or be completely defenseless against missiles. And bigger ships for larger PDTs simply mean more room and power for bigger missiles, which will take bigger PDTs to stop, which means...

      If PDTs aren't viable, then missiles are going to need an overhaul in how they function since their main balance point has been removed, IMO.

      Pretty sure the whole thing will be tweaked eventually, so right now I'm making some smallish cannons that could be used for PDTs in the future if nothing changes, but mostly I'm just not going to build around the mechanic at all. I just don't think its going to stay in it's current form for long enough to justify that.
       
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    6. Tolnorus

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      The new update is full of new stuff and I'm still digesting it, but I have a point of confusion. I thought I remembered reading that directional thrusters was a suggestion that was long ago heard and rejected. This new update adds recoil. I'm sure I don't understand how it works, so could someone explain how this new weapon recoil is different from directional thrusters?
       
    7. NTIMESc

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      I was imagining something more along the lines of the Dreadnought episode of Voyager though, that might be a bit much :)

      I'm sure it'll get worked out eventually. I just hope it is well before the universe update.

      Another aspect of missiles I hope gets some attention is targeting. I would really like to see the missile lock system only regard the entity you have targeted, instead of switching back and forth to every entity that gets under your reticle.

      On a positive note, with the shorter weapon ranges and improved effects I'm enjoying actually being able to seeing some ships battling. Explosions still need some work, though, as they aren't really visible from far away.
       
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    8. Edymnion

      Edymnion Carebear Extraordinaire!

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      Oh yeah, it'll get worked out. They said there would be some bug and balance patches coming out before the Universe update, so I'm sure we'll see something get tweaked in the next few weeks.

      Its all good. :)
       
    9. DrTarDIS

      DrTarDIS Eldrich Timelord

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      In addtion to this, trying to copy-paste sets of logic is being very unreliable for me. About half the time the logic links are not properly active when pasted. If I then delete the entire group of blocks i just pasted and "undo" the delete the links will sometimes reappear.

      Remove still acts strange for me in paste mode too: paste mode active with a 3*6*6 section, using right-click/remove only removes a 2*5*6 section.

      This/these just me?

      Also the new fancy doors I'm trying to add with these logic updates seem to be having issues deciding if they are allowed to "close" O side will slide along the rail, a couple seconds later the other will decide to slide along...the confusion is mounting...

      edited: Mis-type fixes
       
      #69 DrTarDIS, Jul 12, 2018
      Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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    10. Tolnorus

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      I have noticed this in conjunction with a separate problem. I am having a hard time opening doors or pushing buttons. I tap R and get no response. Sometimes, if the door also has a button, then activating the button will open the door while the door ignores direct action. Other times, the reverse is true (the button won't open the door, but activating the door directly works). I assume that this is related to the logic problems.

      Therefor, because doors won't work reliably, I have found myself breaking into my ships by digging through the hull. When I remove blocks to do this, I will occasionally get an extra block. That is, I only must remove two blocks for my head and feet, but in my otherwise empty inventory I have 3 blocks after creating a break in the wall. I replace the pieces and now have a spare block. (I usually play in Creative mode on single player on my own computer while I am designing and building, but I turn it off for digging in this case so I know for certain what kind of blocks I removed.)

      Additionally, many of the ships and stations I have downloaded from the community are giving me warnings where they previously functioned. As far as I can tell, there isn't any mention of changes to logic in this update, only the addition of new systems. Could we get a complete list of changes from v0.200.335 to v.201.126? On the subject, I'm also curious exactly when legacy systems (like pre-Power2.0 reactors and effect computers) will be suspended.
       
    11. Alphajim

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      Probably when NPC ships and stations will have been updated.
       
    12. -PR-Sandbag

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      Also this, plus the reactor upgrades eg: lvl 2 somethingSomething
       
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    13. MChain

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      Jun 9, 2013
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      Well, it seems it's an internal issue... Seems our system administrator really doesn't like java apps. The game just drops when it starts to use more than 1 Gb of RAM, no matter SP or MP. And on my home laptop everything works perfect... Especially after I found out it somewhy prefers Intel chip and force-switched Starmade to run on a NVidia GPU xD

      Anyways, here are the logs. One from updated to .201.126a MP attempt (CakeBuildServer) and one from freshly-installed SP attempt.
      PC Win7 , Core i5 3470 3,2Ghz, 6 Gb RAM (4 allocated to Starmade), GeForce GT 440 (unknown memory, seems 1 Gb)
       

      Attached Files:

    14. Tolnorus

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      Yes. Stations, also. I've had very long wait times for both where I just hang in space nearby and watch, often without any other activity nearby, no combat, no other ships, no "heavy load," where the target is listed plainly on my navigation list and is only a few hundred meters away, but will not load.

      Planets, well, I can see the mantle only. They have no surface. Just a big glowing ball of molten rock.
       
      #74 Tolnorus, Jul 12, 2018
      Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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    15. Edymnion

      Edymnion Carebear Extraordinaire!

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      Same, thought it was just the server being slow.
      --- Updated post (merge), Jul 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 12, 2018 ---
      I've had this for everything lately.

      My own station, other people's ships, stations, etc. They just absolutely will not load in chunks unless I get in a 3 block pod and go buzz directly over them. Makes it impossible to take a larger ship out to visit someone, as by the time you get it close enough to load anything, you're usually running into them.
       
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    16. pr4xiss

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      Some ugly french translations, dont' forget to check Crowdin ;-)

      For instance : standard hull = basic hull, reactor power for reactor bloc :O
       
    17. NTIMESc

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      May 18, 2015
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      Has anyone else noticed missile capacity seems broken?
      I think the exponent and multiplier in the config have been reversed for the DOUBLE_EXP calc style that it uses.

      What is the equation it uses? I'm assuming it's something like
      capacity=(blocks^exp)*mult
       
      #77 NTIMESc, Jul 12, 2018
      Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    18. Spartan-228

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      Odd I haven't had any of these problems on my server, the only problem I have is that removing large number of blocks is wonky some times it works some times it doesn't and some times it removes what you don't want it to.
       
    19. Keptick

      Keptick Overkill titan builder

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      Was the power penalty (for multiple weapon groups connected to one computer) removed? If not, then I STRONGLY recommend removing it since the issues it was meant to adress are non-existent with the new weapon systems, and it just prevents creative weapon construction (especially with the new sequential fire mode).

      I can’t test it at the moment, so if someone could check if it was removed that’d be great.
       
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    20. Captain Fortius

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      Aug 10, 2013
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      Missiles, missiles...

      Small attack craft are often portrayed as the first and best line of defense against gigantic, capital-killing missiles in fiction.
      Getting through the armor plating, or shielding is the hard part, but once that breaks, all it takes is a single shot to blow the charge and/or the fuel reserve.

      I think a baby seal clubber would still quite happily spend one of his doomsday missiles to squash a much weaker opponent.
      I'd actually love to have a physical missile rack, but I'll throw in another, way simpler suggestion; As the missile's damage increases, so should it's turning radius.
      This would make it very impractical to shoot your capital killing torpedoes against small craft, as they would almost always miss.
      The occasional hit would still be catastrophic, but that is only natural.

      The graph they posted shows diminishing returns for missile hp gain; meaning, the larger the missile, and the pd turret, the more the fight goes in the favour of the turret.
      Likely, players would figure out what's the best size for a turret that can reliably kill any missile and stick to that. Mind you, it'd still be a messed up game, but there probably wouldn't be an infinite race of turret vs missile growth.

      They could also make beams be able to hit missiles. Super-accurate, instant-hit weapons that get stronger as the missiles get closer would make very effective point defense weapons.
      Heck, even smaller missiles could go after big ones! - Both solutions exist and work efficiently IRL.
       
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