StarMade v0.201.126 - Weapon Update

    Discussion in 'Game News' started by schema, Jul 10, 2018.

    1. Captain Fortius

      Joined:
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      Allright! Let's try it out with three cannons built of exactly the same number of blocks, but arranged to different widths:

      starmade-screenshot-0005.png

      starmade-screenshot-0004.png
      Wait, what?

      starmade-screenshot-0014.png

      WHAT?

      starmade-screenshot-0006.png

      WAAAAAT???!!!

      This'd be a super neat feature, one that I've really wanted for over half a decade, but -unless I'm doing something really wrong here- sadly it doesn't seem to be in the actual game.
       
    2. yoyo2901

      yoyo2901 Meatshield

      Joined:
      May 22, 2015
      Messages:
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      Great update and all and good work but...
      before:
      [​IMG]
      after:
      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]
      back to the drawing board i go..
       
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    3. Spartan-228

      Joined:
      Feb 10, 2014
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      I don't know I had good results with mine
      [​IMG] [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      Entrance point.
      [​IMG]

      Sorry this shot should have been better, but you can sort of see the internal damage.
      [​IMG]

      Exit point.
      [​IMG]
       
      #23 Spartan-228, Jul 10, 2018
      Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
    4. JinM

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      I like that they changed the white hull textures though. - Now it doesn't melt my face off when I look at them inside of rooms. :D
       
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    5. Captain Fortius

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      Aug 10, 2013
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      That looks like a very support heavy weapon. I believe the impact crater's size is due to additional effects, and not any "projectile width scaling".

      I'll go and do some testing now with your numbers, but you can do it too: Add an 1x1 diameter barrel extension to your cannon group. Shoot.

      -Does the projectile look different?
      -Does the impact crater look different?
       
    6. Spartan-228

      Joined:
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      I did a small test and you may be right there was no real difference, guess they need to take a look at that new system again.

      EDIT: actual I just realized the damage being done is not a 3x3 like I meant it to be or the 1x1 that I tryed to do in the test afterword but 5x5 which is the size of the cannon mane body, hummm more testing needed.
      EDIT: So I made a cannon with the exact same states as the one I had on my ship the first time except the thing was a single line of cannon (Yes I know very long gun)

      [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
      The only big difference is the entrance point is smaller other than that there is little difference. It should also be noted that results can very drastically depending on the angle of the hit even a shallow one.
       
      #26 Spartan-228, Jul 10, 2018
      Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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    7. Captain Fortius

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      Results time!

      I recreated the cannon you were using - at least numerically - in three different shapes; extra thin, regular, and extra wide.
      starmade-screenshot-0015.png

      Here's what I've learned:
      starmade-screenshot-0016.png
      Visually, the projectiles remained the same. Doesn't look very nice when a 25x25 barrel fires a bolt like that.

      starmade-screenshot-0017.png
      Damage wise, the difference is noticable, but it took building a weapon this large, with effects, to actually show, and the 1x1 cannon punched an 8x8 hole, the 5x5 punched an 11x11, and the 25x25 did a 17x17 X-mark.

      Miscellanious lessons:

      -Recoil is still a viable means of propulsion.
      -Recoil really does make the game lag as predicted, when firing the weapon, and when hitting the target. The heavier the weapon, and/or the target, the more noticable it is.
      -Recoil makes the ship spin in circles when you're shooting in free-camera mode.
      -Spin from recoil while in free-camera mode doesn't display properly until you switch back to normal camera view (ship's alignment fails to update visually), though you'll notice your shots going in odd directions.
      -"Realign Ship" and "Stop rotation" buttons don't work while in free camera mode. (exists since power 2.0 release)
      -Hovering the cursor over weapon blocks no longer displays which block is the output.
      - Cannon blocks and Beam blocks are almost identical visually.
       
      #27 Captain Fortius, Jul 10, 2018
      Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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    8. Spartan-228

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      Ya they have some work to do. As for the lag, on the server I own, I have yet to have any noticeable lag.
       
    9. JackBeFlippen

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      Dec 5, 2016
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      for those of you who do not want to read it all, I read out loud for you. :P
       
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    10. Cluwne

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      Aug 3, 2016
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      Friendly reminder:
      Hull is now armor, which means your hull test cubes now have some tough armor from their sheer size.
      You might want to test the block destruction or acid pattern on something more... soft, like asteroid rock for example.
       
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    11. Captain Fortius

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      I've noticed that, but we're not going to be fighting against asteroids, will we? :D
      Blocks can show light scratching as well, the test cannons don't need to outright destroy them in this case.

      My first test pics clearly show 1 block wide holes and the neighbouring blocks in pristine, unscratched condition. Which would indicate, a fatter projectile didn't impact upon them.

      Still, for the sake of thoroughness, here you go;

      starmade-screenshot-0018.png

      1x1 holes by the cannons from my first test; all three impacted at the same point so it looks more like 1x2

      10, 14, 16 block wide holes by cannons from the second test. Some unevennes due to the rock going into a wild spin after being shot.

      At any rate, I'm more troubled by the wide gunbarrels shooting thin looking projectiles. Which is probably easier to fix than any damage scaling, and has no impact on combat balance.
       
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    12. Cluwne

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      I was talking more about test cubes being made of asteroid rock, perhaps even with strata of differently-colored rocks for prettiness or at-a-glance depth measurement.
      'Roid rock is a stand-in for system blocks, throw a layer of armor on the sides and you have a decent target to measure the destructive potential of your jumbo-sized boomstick.
       
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    13. Ithirahad

      Ithirahad Arana'Aethi

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      Systems now have different mechanics for damage absorption than deco/rocks, IIRC.
       
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    14. Nosajimiki

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      Sep 14, 2017
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      I didn't have this issue, check your configs.

      This is because of armor rating, if you hit more armor rating than your weapon does damage, you only damage the block you hit (no acid).

      This looks like you over-penetrated. Asteroids have shitty HP, so even a weak weapon can go right through them. If a weapon is strong enough to over penetrate, then your damage is averaged out along the line you hit so you lose the damage pattern you'd otherwise have.

      Try targeting 200 m of system blocks instead to see the effect. As a side note though, target blocks should now always reflect the size of a ship's intended prey. A small anti-fighter turrets should use fighter sized target blocks with maybe 1 layer of adv armor. A ship with a giant spinal mounted cannon should probably use target block that is 500m thick of systems with a heavy armor prow and maybe a few bulkheads just for good measure.
       
    15. virtue1987

      Joined:
      Jul 7, 2014
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      Can someone tell me how to increase the projectile size? I place the blocks next to each other, but i only get a single output.
      I dont know what i missed exactly.
       
    16. DrTarDIS

      DrTarDIS Eldrich Timelord

      Joined:
      Jan 16, 2014
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      Funny things i notice:
      Code ( (Unknown Language)):

       <TractorBeam>
                      <BasicValues>        
                              <TractorMassPerBlock>5</TractorMassPerBlock> <!-- mass that can be moved per block -->
                              <ReactorPowerConsumptionResting>10.0</ReactorPowerConsumptionResting>
                              <ReactorPowerConsumptionCharging>50.0</ReactorPowerConsumptionCharging>

                              <ForceToMassMax>10</ForceToMassMax> <!--  the maximum force applied, ForceToMassMax * target's mass -->
                              <TickRate>0.0249</TickRate>  <!-- tick time in seconds, beam must remain on target entity or this timer resets -->
                              <Distance>0.2</Distance> <!-- 1 is equal to 100% sector radius --> <!-- timeBetweenHits = 1 / (unitSize^pow)*mult -->
                              <CoolDown>5</CoolDown> <!-- Time it takes to fire beam again from the start-time it first activated -->
                              <BurstTime>-1</BurstTime> <!-- Time the beam will fire -->
                              <InitialTicks>0</InitialTicks> <!-- Ticks to do at the initial contact of beam with a block -->
                              <RailHitMultiplierParent>0</RailHitMultiplierParent> <!-- Salvage Damage percent done to target in own Rail Chain when target is equal or closer to root than this entity -->
                              <RailHitMultiplierChild>0</RailHitMultiplierChild> <!-- Salvage Damage percent done to target in own Rail Chain when target is further from root than this entity -->
       
      <TractorBeam>....<RailHitMultiplierParent>0</RailHitMultiplierParent> <!-- Salvage Damage percent done to target in own Rail Chain when target is equal or closer to root than this entity -->
      oversight on copy/paste of some occluded mechanic? Can I tractor-salvage captured ships if i change this to 200?
       
    17. Fugari2

      Joined:
      Oct 4, 2014
      Messages:
      1
      So I need some help here, my game ran perfectly fine before this update. Now before I load into a world I get an error message saying I need to update my intel graphics card. I have a MacBook Pro retina 2015 and I can't figure out how to update the card. I know the game doesn't support intel graphics card but its worked perfectly fine until now. this is probably the wrong place to post this but im very confused.
       
    18. ObiShawnKenobi

      Joined:
      Jul 3, 2013
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      1,108
      Now I can finally make an X-wing that fires properly. Thanks volley fire!
       
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    19. Captain Fortius

      Joined:
      Aug 10, 2013
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      Look at the pictures. An 1x1 needle projectile is coming out of 25x25 gunbarrels. Like it did before the update. Problem enough on it's own.

      Both my targets were basic armor, the first one just 1 block thick; easily destroyed by a 250 block weapon, so what's that about acid damage not applying? Clearly the game just says "meh, this radius is 1"

      The second target (in a post you didn't quote) is 5 blocks thick, and it's fired upon by monstrous, 8000 block cannons; results in clean penetrations as well, and area damage is showing, though more for thin weapons and less for thick weapons than expected; meaning, the damage model has a certain sweet spot for weapon sizes, below and above which the results are disappointing.

      ..... Those cannons left pretty much the same marks on the asteroid as they did on basic armor.

      You must be misunderstanding something here. According to your first paragraph, I don't get area damage if my shot's can't penetrate fully, and according to your second, I don't get area damage if they CAN.

      Overpenetration means, the bullet has a buttload of energy it didn't transfer to the target, because it punched clean through and kept flying.

      No matter how easy a target, if the shot didn't outright ricochet off, it's impossible for a projectile to leave a smaller hole than itself... Yes, if the target was thicker, it could have destroyed more material. Yes, a fatter projectile with the same energy could have destroyed more blocks even if the target is thin.

      And that's exactly what I tested; all three of my tests (small cannons vs thin armor, huge cannons vs thick armor, both size vs asteroid) each had three drastically different barrel shapes, which was stated in this very update would achieve drastically different damage patterns and either help to penetrate big targets or stop your shots from overpenetrating small targets.
       
    20. Kingofanime

      Joined:
      Aug 30, 2015
      Messages:
      167
      Are these damage value correct???

      an 84 block cannon does 1680 dps

      cannon.png

      an 84 block beam weapon does 6303 dps (I have no idea why it says 126 dps at the top?????)

      beam.png

      And if I made it an arc beam cannon (beam/missile), it's 10,504 dps, and it completely out performs a cannon/cannon weapon)
       
      #40 Kingofanime, Jul 10, 2018
      Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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