StarMade v0.201.126 - Weapon Update

[Spartan-228]

Dose the heat effect bypass armor? The reason I ask is I just made a small B+B+H that was 5+5+5 and it bypassed the target's armor and cut through the subsystems underneath like the armor was not even there.

 

[kikaha]

Invisibility mode...
In flight or build mode is the same...

 

[kiddan]

Yo, I can't find anywhere in the news post mentioning what weapons deal what types of damage, this is really useful info and it's missing. =S

 

[0ldSkull]

Yo, I can't find anywhere in the news post mentioning what weapons deal what types of damage, this is really useful info and it's missing. =S

It's there, just in a bit of an odd place:

Effects
The old effect computers have all been removed as most don’t have a purpose anymore. We’ve replaced it with a 3 damage type system with base values for each weapon type:

• Kinetic (Cannons)
• Electromagnetic (Missiles)
• Heat (Beams)

 

[NTIMESc]

Cannons and all beams are invisible for me when triggered with logic. Missile are visible, though.
Anyone else have this issue?

 

[Crimson-Artist]

It's there, just in a bit of an odd place:

im actually still confused as to what each damage type does. I suspect that heat damage increases shield damage but thats about it.

 

[Tshara]

Having fun figuring stuff out so far. Feels a lot more complete with the weapon update integrated.

The only thing I find a bit weird is the weapon recoil effect. I don’t see any real game play value in it. It’s a bit of a gimmick to play around with until it gets annoying. Ships drifting all over the place.

 

[Spartan-228]

Having fun figuring stuff out so far. Feels a lot more complete with the weapon update integrated.

The only thing I find a bit weird is the weapon recoil effect. I don’t see any real game play value in it. It’s a bit of a gimmick to play around with until it gets annoying. Ships drifting all over the place.

That is an easy one. The bigger your gun the heavier your ship needs to be to negate the recoil, it forces you to scale your weapon and ship together. For example you could build an ultra light ship with just enough power for the thrust and a relay big gun, but that gun would be very hard if impossible to use do to recoil. This is a problem that designers would have to take into account if they were going to build a real space battleship, so it adds a bit of realism to the game as well as being an interesting balancing mechanic

 

[kiddan]

That is an easy one. The bigger your gun the heavier your ship needs to be to negate the recoil, it forces you to scale your weapon and ship together. For example you could build an ultra light ship with just enough power for the thrust and a relay big gun, but that gun would be very hard if impossible to use do to recoil. This is a problem that designers would have to take into account if they were going to build a real space battleship, so it adds a bit of realism to the game as well as being an interesting balancing mechanic

AKA, heavy armour is sometimes useful as extra weight now. There's now reasons for some ships to intentionally use more armour than they otherwise should, at the expense of mobility.

 

[Crimson-Artist]

AKA, heavy armour is sometimes useful as extra weight now. There's now reasons for some ships to intentionally use more armour than they otherwise should, at the expense of mobility.

Thing is is there a minimum mass/damage ratio that negates the recoil? from what i could tell there isnt one and even the smallest cannon will push even the heaviest ships ever so slightly.

 

[DrTarDIS]

Is 4 years from answer that you will add water to game, and still nothing. i would love water in game because you could build water ships or cities. Like Atlantis from Stargate is very sad that you dont add this feature that would change all of the game. even in Space Engineers dont have water.
Water is very strategic for game like this and if it will be done right it will make BIG boom of sales. Example underwater cities,bases on water special ships like cities that can land on planet with water.

...I use water in my builds...there IS water. You make it out of ice. Am I missing some other meaning here?

 

[Tshara]

That is an easy one. The bigger your gun the heavier your ship needs to be to negate the recoil, it forces you to scale your weapon and ship together. For example you could build an ultra light ship with just enough power for the thrust and a relay big gun, but that gun would be very hard if impossible to use do to recoil. This is a problem that designers would have to take into account if they were going to build a real space battleship, so it adds a bit of realism to the game as well as being an interesting balancing mechanic

A design like that would still work even with the recoil. Its basically a first shot first kill design. If you are flung all over the place after that who cares. The annoyance what I’m talking about is every other reasonable design. You constantly have to push against the recoil when firing a weapon.

Name another space game that has recoil in weapons. There might be some but I can’t think of any myself. There is good reason for that in my opinion. It’s not a fun to fight your own ship all the time. It makes you feel out of control as a player. And taking away control from the player is not a good thing unless there is a very good reason for it.

 

[Alphajim]

Is the Volley Fire mode supposed to fire unfocused shots ?

 

[Edymnion]

...I use water in my builds...there IS water. You make it out of ice. Am I missing some other meaning here?

I think he wants like actual oceans of the stuff.

 

[Spartan-228]

A design like that would still work even with the recoil. Its basically a first shot first kill design. If you are flung all over the place after that who cares. The annoyance what I’m talking about is every other reasonable design. You constantly have to push against the recoil when firing a weapon.

Name another space game that has recoil in weapons. There might be some but I can’t think of any myself. There is good reason for that in my opinion. It’s not a fun to fight your own ship all the time. It makes you feel out of control as a player. And taking away control from the player is not a good thing unless there is a very good reason for it.

Look you can like or dislike it that is up to you, but I would like to make a few point if I may.

01.

Its basically a first shot first kill design. If you are flung all over the place after that who cares

It already works like this, in all my tests the projectile is not effected by the recoil just your ability to get back on target quickly.

02.

The annoyance what I’m talking about is every other reasonable design. You constantly have to push against the recoil when firing a weapon

Okay there are few things here that I would like to point out, If your gun is too big for your ship to handle it is not a reasonable design. Also you can not compare the old weapons with the new weapons as all the numbers have changed and no longer mean the same thing, a 1000 DPS gun in this build will preform differently than a 1000 DPS gun in the old build. And finally weapons recoil has been a factor in the real world for as long as they have been around, an example being the P-40E.
"Nearly a hundred shots a second those six Fifties threw out, and the muddy river turned to foam near the target. The sense of power impressed me as the recoil slowed me many miles per hour in my dive; I could feel my head snap forward from the deceleration. Sometimes when the guns on only one side would fire, the unequal kicks from the recoil would almost turn the ship."
This came from God is my Copilot Chapter 16. No Hits, No Runs, One Error. It is by Robert L. Scott, Jr. and is about his experiences in China during WW2. And yes back then pilots (especially the ones that learned how to fly before the war) would often refer to their plains as ships.

03. Sarmade is not other games, and you are only out of control if you let yourself be. Starmade is about building ships as well as other things, but we all play it (I believe) to build ships. However Starmade is not just a model building program, when you build a ship the decisions you made wile designing it will be evident in the way it handles. Weather or not your ship is able to be controlled wile using the weapons is not a problem with the game, but a problem with your ship design. NOW on the flip side I can see how recoil might be too high, thus making it so that it is too difficult to make weapons effective enough to bringing down maxed out enemy defenses, However unless I have hard evidence showing this to be the case I have no problems with the recoil staying at where it is now (At leas as far as the amount of force pushing you back relative to the cannons size)

04. I will concede that the walking up effect of the weapons even when mounted center line to the ship MIGHT be a tad much. HOWEVER this may be do to the fact that wile the weapon is mounted center line you can fire that weapon at an angle that would result in that effect. I do think that we could do without the hole walking up, down, left, or right thing as long as the weapon is mounted center line of the ship. If you were to mount your weapon ells where, say on the left side of your ship (and didn't have a weapon of the same size on the right side of your ship to counter balance it) then I could see the recoil puling your bow to the left. But this is not a game braking issue for me.

EDIT:

Thing is is there a minimum mass/damage ratio that negates the recoil? from what i could tell there isnt one and even the smallest cannon will push even the heaviest ships ever so slightly.

In space anything short of a pee shooter is going to move you a little. Well maybe something substantially bigger than a pee shooter, but you get the idea.

 

[kikaha]

Controlling the turrets is buggy.
When i use selected target firing on the first one works. Then i switched target and turrets wouldn't fire even though they had a clear line of fire. Also, at some point turrets wouldn't move/follow where i was looking while in flight but would when in build mode.


And last but not least, beam turrets can fire through the ship no problem.

 

[Spartan-228]

Controlling the turrets is buggy.
When i use selected target firing on the first one works. Then i switched target and turrets wouldn't fire even though they had a clear line of fire. Also, at some point turrets wouldn't move/follow where i was looking while in flight but would when in build mode.


And last but not least, beam turrets can fire through the ship no problem.

Ya they need some work, I don't even use that manual control they added, it has potential, but is just not useful for anything other than maybe a chin mounted gun that can only go left and right on a fighter. But the big thing is the turrets and docked entitys shooting through the mother ship, that need to be fixed soon as that can be so easily abused.

 

[DrTarDIS]

Look you can like or dislike it that is up to you, but I would like to make a few point if I may.

01. It already works like this, in all my tests the projectile is not effected by the recoil just your ability to get back on target quickly.

02. Okay there are few things here that I would like to point out, If your gun is too big for your ship to handle it is not a reasonable design. Also you can not compare the old weapons with the new weapons as all the numbers have changed and no longer mean the same thing, a 1000 DPS gun in this build will preform differently than a 1000 DPS gun in the old build. And finally weapons recoil has been a factor in the real world for as long as they have been around, an example being the P-40E.
"Nearly a hundred shots a second those six Fifties threw out, and the muddy river turned to foam near the target. The sense of power impressed me as the recoil slowed me many miles per hour in my dive; I could feel my head snap forward from the deceleration. Sometimes when the guns on only one side would fire, the unequal kicks from the recoil would almost turn the ship."
This came from God is my Copilot Chapter 16. No Hits, No Runs, One Error. It is by Robert L. Scott, Jr. and is about his experiences in China during WW2. And yes back then pilots (especially the ones that learned how to fly before the war) would often refer to their plains as ships.

03. Sarmade is not other games, and you are only out of control if you let yourself be. Starmade is about building ships as well as other things, but we all play it (I believe) to build ships. However Starmade is not just a model building program, when you build a ship the decisions you made wile designing it will be evident in the way it handles. Weather or not your ship is able to be controlled wile using the weapons is not a problem with the game, but a problem with your ship design. NOW on the flip side I can see how recoil might be too high, thus making it so that it is too difficult to make weapons effective enough to bringing down maxed out enemy defenses, However unless I have hard evidence showing this to be the case I have no problems with the recoil staying at where it is now (At leas as far as the amount of force pushing you back relative to the cannons size)

04. I will concede that the walking up effect of the weapons even when mounted center line to the ship MIGHT be a tad much. HOWEVER this may be do to the fact that wile the weapon is mounted center line you can fire that weapon at an angle that would result in that effect. I do think that we could do without the hole walking up, down, left, or right thing as long as the weapon is mounted center line of the ship. If you were to mount your weapon ells where, say on the left side of your ship (and didn't have a weapon of the same size on the right side of your ship to counter balance it) then I could see the recoil puling your bow to the left. But this is not a game braking issue for me.

EDIT:

In space anything short of a pee shooter is going to move you a little. Well maybe something substantially bigger than a pee shooter, but you get "And finally weapons recoil has been a factor in the real world for as long as they have been around, an example being the P-40E."the idea.

"And finally weapons recoil has been a factor in the real world for as long as they have been around, an example being the P-40E."

There is a gravity block. There is gravity effect. Recoil is meaningless to any civilization that controls gravity. Gravity control =inertia less acceleration. Just sayin.

"Weather or not your ship is able to be controlled wile using the weapons is not a problem with the game, but a problem with your ship design."
Kinda wrong. Min value means no matter what, it will always kick you around, even if it's a pea-shooter in comparison to ship weight.
Also <CursorRecoilDirY>1.0</CursorRecoilDirY> <!-- direction of recoil (>0 = up, <0 = down, 0 = random) --> shows that weapon location has no bearing at all on recoil direction. Shine is just testing out a FPS mechanic on a ship, when it should be limited to astro weaponry. That whole section really shows that it's not physics based at all and an unnesisary overlay to the actual physics and real recoil coded in above it.

           <Recoil>4.0</Recoil> <!-- Recoil in force per damage. Applied from the ship cannons point of origin in the opposite firing direction (multiplied with damage of projectile)-->
                        <ImpactForce>1.0</ImpactForce> <!-- Impact force on target in force per damage.  (multiplied with damage of projectile)-->
                       
                        <!-- 5 times more vertical recoil, horizontal recoil can go left or right -->
                        <!-- Horizontal Cursor Recoil -->
                        <CursorRecoilX>0.000001</CursorRecoilX> <!-- Cursor movement force multiplied with damage -->
                        <CursorRecoilMinX>0.000001</CursorRecoilMinX> <!-- Min cursor recoil value -->
                        <CursorRecoilMaxX>0.01</CursorRecoilMaxX> <!-- Max cursor recoil value -->
                        <CursorRecoilDirX>0.0</CursorRecoilDirX> <!-- direction of recoil (>0 = up, <0 = down, 0 = random) -->
                       
                        <!-- Vertical Cursor Recoil -->
                        <CursorRecoilY>0.000008</CursorRecoilY> <!-- Cursor movement force multiplied with damage -->
                        <CursorRecoilMinY>0.000008</CursorRecoilMinY> <!-- Min cursor recoil value -->
                        <CursorRecoilMaxY>0.08</CursorRecoilMaxY> <!-- Max cursor recoil value -->
                        <CursorRecoilDirY>1.0</CursorRecoilDirY> <!-- direction of recoil (>0 = up, <0 = down, 0 = random) -->
                       

                        <CursorRecoilSpeedIn>0.0</CursorRecoilSpeedIn> <!-- Velocity curser goes inwards -->
                        <CursorRecoilSpeedInAddMod>0.0</CursorRecoilSpeedInAddMod> <!-- range of which pow is applied speed = pow(CursorRecoilSpeedIn, (PercentOfDistance + CursorRecoilSpeedInAddMod)*CursorRecoilSpeedInPowMult) -->
                        <CursorRecoilSpeedInPowMult>0.0</CursorRecoilSpeedInPowMult>

                        <CursorRecoilSpeedOut>1.5</CursorRecoilSpeedOut> <!-- Velocity curser goes outwards -->
                        <CursorRecoilSpeedOutAddMod>0.5</CursorRecoilSpeedOutAddMod> <!-- 0=off; range of which pow is applied speed *= pow((1.0f-percentofRecoil)*speedPowMult + speedAdd, 2); -->
                        <CursorRecoilSpeedOutPowMult>2.0</CursorRecoilSpeedOutPowMult>


[/data]

 

[NTIMESc]

There is a gravity block. There is gravity effect. Recoil is meaningless to any civilization that controls gravity.

So now we need a way to enable recoil compensation, but at the cost of increased power usage. Perhaps an option in the Thruster panel, or maybe by linking a Gravity Module.

 

[MarkUS_5]

Anyone can help me understand armor penetration with the new cannons?
I used a pretty weak cannon with 5040 Shot DMG and layered Basic Armor.
First the math:
2 Layers -> 1000+150 = 1150 Armor
5 Layers -> 2500+750 = 3250 Armor
10 Layers -> 5000+2750=7750 Armor

1. Is the armor value lower than the bullet’s damage, the bullet will travel on as normal and destroy the armor blocks along its way
   
   
2. Is the armor value higher than the bullet’s damage, the bullet will only do acid damage on the first block and stops completely
   
   
3. Is the armor value much higher than the bullet’s damage, acid damage is not even applied and only a single block gets normal damage and stops completely

so ... at 10 layers it should completely stop my attack right?
BUT this happened:

OVERPENETRATION stops with 5 Layers
ACID stops at 10 Layers BUT somehow it penetrates again

anyone else noticed something like that?