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    New Power DEV Thread

    Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Top 4ce, Oct 4, 2017.

    1. Edymnion

      Joined:
      Mar 18, 2015
      Messages:
      2,268
      It bears repeating that this is a first iteration dev build. They're mostly testing to see that the thing works. Things like actual number balancing, getting displays and tooltips updated, etc comes after that.

      So yeah, it is going to be difficult to tell whats going on because a lot of the info needed isn't going to be properly set up and accessible yet.
       
    2. Top 4ce

      Top 4ce Force or Ace?

      Joined:
      Jul 25, 2013
      Messages:
      460
      The reactor tab shows the draw of power of each system. Giving you a good understanding between what you need and what your making.
       
    3. Ithirahad

      Ithirahad Arana'Aethi
      Community Mentor

      Joined:
      Nov 14, 2013
      Messages:
      3,880
      ...Except thrusters, and anything that has to be 'in use' to draw power.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Informative Informative x 1
    4. LupoCani

      Joined:
      Jun 23, 2013
      Messages:
      482
      It is relevant, I think, that basically everything besides guns was practically like that already. Power is generated continuously by reactors, and drawn continuously by systems. Only weapons, as far as I can recall, actually ate power in big chunks at a time as opposed to tick-by-tick. Thus, capacity was little more than a balancing mechanic for high-alpha weapons.

      Mind you, capacity hasn't been removed as such. Even in this new system, we can imagine a battery mechanic that drains power until full, and then supplies power until empty. It just doesn't function as the conduit through which power is distributed anymore.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    5. Top 4ce

      Top 4ce Force or Ace?

      Joined:
      Jul 25, 2013
      Messages:
      460
      This is true, here's hoping that power drain from in use is implemented.
       
    6. aceface

      Joined:
      Jun 20, 2013
      Messages:
      2,409
      agreed, I don't understand why capacity system was dropped. just seems more complicated.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    7. GnomeKing

      Joined:
      Feb 21, 2015
      Messages:
      51
      Ok, thanks - I see the points about 'alpha weapons' and display updates for Dev build - But storage of energy is such a crucial real world concept (eg batteries for national power grids, electric cars, your hand-help communication device, etc) that I feel dropping it from the game mechanics as an explicit concept to build with is not positive (for example in terms of intuition for 'how to build').

      Are there any other benefits to code and calculations by dropping explicit-capacity? Or other programming/meta-game design related benefits?

      If not, then, in regard of issues raised about capacitors for 'alpha weapons' and redundancy of capacitors at other times (as mentioned above), would it not be better (for sake of a game with deep build mechanics) to make explicit-capacity mean more, rather than drop it completely?
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    8. Panpiper

      Joined:
      Jan 1, 2015
      Messages:
      918
      Yea, and it seems to have greatly exacerbated the problems with weapon balancing now. Building a ship that stored it's damage for 45 seconds so as to deliver all it's DPS in one shield annihilating punch, used to require a very substantial investment in batteries that other weapons did not need. That helped balance things greatly. Now you don't need those batteries. In theory you don't even need more than the maintenance trickle power. You can build a ship that requires twenty minutes or more to recharge it's missiles, but it won't matter, because you will have obliterated any conceivable opponent with just your first shot.

      Oops.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
    9. kikaha

      Joined:
      Jul 10, 2013
      Messages:
      443
      Well maybe not. If you miss or if the opponent survive then you are left with your ship unable to do anything but recharge for twenty minutes. Or you switch reactor but the second one is usually lees powerfull than the main one. Jump chamber on the second so you can run :P
       
    10. Panpiper

      Joined:
      Jan 1, 2015
      Messages:
      918
      Hundreds of missile/beam seekers coming all at once dealing billions of damage... Nothing will survive. Nothing.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
    11. Cluwne

      Joined:
      Aug 3, 2016
      Messages:
      136
      Seems like stealth will be the new go-to for defense, probably for stations too, at least for a while.
      This stands to show how important it is not to be seen.
       
      • Funny Funny x 4
      • Agree Agree x 1
    12. Batavium

      Batavium Certified Doom Cube User

      Joined:
      Jan 28, 2015
      Messages:
      407
       
    13. Comradecolonel

      Joined:
      Jun 17, 2015
      Messages:
      265
      The best defense is not to be there...

      I need to sit down and make some ridiculous ships it seems. See how out of whack the meta really is. My squarish ships are already very sad. Time to build some long and skinny death bombs.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    14. TrainDodger

      Joined:
      Jul 17, 2013
      Messages:
      89
      I've made some point-defense setups that were really effective at taming missile spam. Ages ago, I did this one ugly little civilian tug/recovery ship once (The IMX Tomahawk) that had a couple dozen high-powered "inline shredder-style" (alternating primary and secondary blocks in a single line) AMS turrets, and I experimentally launched hundreds of missiles at it, and it swatted them all down in seconds. Pirates looking for a quick freighter gank would be hard-pressed to get through this point-defense net:

      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
       
      • Creative Creative x 1
    15. Gasboy

      Gasboy BLRP

      Joined:
      Aug 11, 2013
      Messages:
      1,135
      It works in practice only when you have a sturdy computer, or are playing on a good server. One bit of lag, and you'll get eaten alive.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
    16. CyberTao

      CyberTao 鬼佬

      Joined:
      Nov 10, 2013
      Messages:
      2,468
      Its amazing how many people here have their head so far up schines ass they think they can read their thoughts.

      Power storage never should have been dropped, it was a critical part of balancing. How in the world they can think they'll work around not having it without changing the entire baseline of balance is beyond me.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
      • Funny Funny x 1
    17. Batavium

      Batavium Certified Doom Cube User

      Joined:
      Jan 28, 2015
      Messages:
      407
      The server AI aim setting has a lot to do with it. That effects Anti Missile Defense to.

      The default StarMade setting is basicly aim to miss.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
    18. Daraku

      Joined:
      Jan 19, 2017
      Messages:
      2
      Some numbers, to consider:
      - Ship ~700 with reactors and stabilized arranged in sphere of 75 block radius, can generate 180 000 000 e/s (180 million)
      - Single nuke combo (missile + pulse + explosive) require 27000 e per shot, with reload time of 90 seconds, that deal 10800 damage.

      If we building ship that need to reload for 20 minutes, we can recharge 8000000 such nukes, with total damage of 86 400 000 000 (86 billion).
      (180000000*20*60)/27000 = 8000000 (8 millions)
      8000000 * 10800 = 86 400 000 000 (86 billions)

      Nothing can survive this alpha strike. And AMS does not save you from other types of weapons.
       
      #278 Daraku, Oct 12, 2017
      Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
      • Useful Useful x 1
    19. TrainDodger

      Joined:
      Jul 17, 2013
      Messages:
      89
      What's going on with turrets? I can't get them to move manually in the dev builds. Makes them impossible to test. I was working on a corvette with some beefy anti-fighter side guns.

      The same AI difficulty setting that makes turrets more effective as AMS also makes pirates more accurate, too, so a lot of servers keep it at the default or even turn it down, rendering AMS useless and missile spam very effective. Lag also contributes to inaccuracy. What works locally doesn't always work on a server.
       
    20. Edymnion

      Joined:
      Mar 18, 2015
      Messages:
      2,268
      And you could build this same thing now with missile/missile arrays on docked entities with their own 2 million e/sec generators all tied to a wireless remote and an inner ship remote.

      Jump in, hit the remote, have all the fake turrets fire, crash the server or destroy the target in one button press.
       
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