StarMade - PvP & PvE balance, Perspective & Direction

[0ldSkull]

You could suggest a general flight-simulator within SM to test builds before purchasing them with original, adjusted and imported rules.
I'll leave it to you to do it if you like to.

That's really more than I had in mind, which was simply to have it possible to enable client-side the display of ship properties which might otherwise be disabled by server rules (assuming that such things would be hidden to the player).

I think the interpretation of these rules got a bit distorted in some of the thread discussion. I understood them to be definitions which regulate player behavior, in particular with respect to what they build. (Not in the form of adjusting flight characteristics, but of disabling or crippling part of your ship if you "break" the rule.) Some of the things being suggested in thread replies appear to be configuration of game mechanics, along the lines of things which currently appear in configuration files.

Nice to see you back!

 

[NeonSturm]

That's really more than I had in mind, which was simply to have it possible to enable client-side the display of ship properties which might otherwise be disabled by server rules (assuming that such things would be hidden to the player).

Yes, but maybe it is time to implement it anyway. Some may prefer a battle where all weapons hit 100% and hull are not blocks but a single number, (health% = dmg mitigation% to system-hp, etc.

You could run a basic battle check to classify ships on a server and not only newbies could test against which ships they have at least a chance with their current build.
Also admins could define a rule saying that every ship or fleet being able to kill stationX in this simulation is classified as battleship and need no more complicated rules if that check passes only after 10% block count difference and client-side for warnings until leaving the build sector where it's server side.

Some of the things being suggested in thread replies appear to be configuration of game mechanics, along the lines of things which currently appear in configuration files.

Sure. The config files are server-global, but we could use these rules for example as system-wide anomalies, etc.

Having sector/system-dependent rulesets might even be a savior when it comes to lag orignating from too many rule-checks just everywhere and offers so many possibilities ... Around some stations, defenders could be buffed so that you need to overpower them 20x to get away without damage.

 

[Skwidz]

Power 2.0 is nice, but something which Carrier-ships can insert into the captains vessel to outfit it for the current mission would not work.
5x5x20 plugins would not take as much hangar space as a hollowed out ship.

I'm not sure what you mean by that

 

[NeonSturm]

Let's say, you want a survival kit on your ship which includes a few salvagers, some missile defense with dual use as offensive guns in other areas of the server, med-kits, RP-interior, logic-circuits for everything ...

Now you see a planet, but your big ship isn't allowed to enter the sectors nearby by new update's server rules and need your shuttle/missionship for it.
You may outfit it with either a single-use high-alpha weapon for bombing the defense satelites which defend against the intruders which may only come solo (not more than x mass in total from ships, kill ships when they don't leave or pass the area within x seconds).
Or you may outfit it with a scanner rail-plugin to scan the sectors surrounding your carrier-ship.
Perhaps you decided you prefer a secondary reactor which adds additional thrust to escape danger or win a race-event...

It is better to pack this mission-plugins into 8x8x16 sized containers which fit into a hollow ship.

 

[Edymnion]

Personally I'd really like to see things along the lines of letting anything docked to a station/planet count as BEING a station for the purposes of activating blocks.

I'd love to be able to make colony drop ships. "Oh, hey <new player>. Having trouble? Hang on, let me replicate you a basic home base module and bring it over on my drop ship. It'll have your basic stuff for power and factories and all that."

 

[MacThule]

Glad to see stabilization range reduced. Very glad to see the stabilization stream go.

Putting exploit prevention into a server-side package is a pretty good compromise... for a situation that seems to have been impossible to solve for years now. Not ideal, but I get it.

Very good news, overall.

Removing integrity is a terrible decision though, schema.

Integrity is probably the second best feature of the new systems that ate up the last 18 months of development time (first being ditching the geometric contortionism and very sharp softcap of old power).

No machine or electronic device should be able to continue functioning when substantially damaged. Integrity could be translated to shut-down or penalties (because not everything should explode either), but if you ditch integrity completely at this point you will be closing the door to ever implementing a system remotely similar to it in the future, as people will inevitably scream to the heavens that you are bringing back horrible, terrible, failed integrity that was removed because it sucked so bad.

Even at it's harshest, integrity was still too forgiving, IMO. Which is why we have posts in forum complaining about ships taking way too long to kill.

I understand that you have people complaining in both directions (ships too fragile/ships too tough), but that's about people who either want to ignore the numbers in a ship's statistics, or obsessively min-max them (and then complain that they're being "forced" to build in cubes, because they don't understand how unrealistically robust a statistically maxed integrity is).

You'll never have people not complaining though. About literally every aspect of anything you do. That's just humanity in all it's shitty glory. If you are looking for some route that earns "general approval" you will be running in circles forever. There's no such thing, because even when the fraction that dislikes your choices is a very small minority they will always be the loudest group. 100 contented souls are too quiet to drown out one malcontent.

Just switch integrity to shut-down affected system groups for now rather than exploding. Then at least you retain a placeholder system for dealing with systems damage.

You will lose all initiative to address system damage otherwise. Any future attempt at system HP or anything of the sort will always be equated to integrity by the playerbase.

 

[NeonSturm]

You'll never have people not complaining though. About literally every aspect of anything you do. That's just humanity in all it's shitty glory. If you are looking for some route that earns "general approval" you will be running in circles forever. There's no such thing, because even when the fraction that dislikes your choices is a very small minority they will always be the loudest group. 100 contented souls are too quiet to drown out one malcontent.

Schema will always have some peoples which encourage instead of complain (too).
All natural aspects are supported, as long as it isn't too strong of a force because that feasts upon other game choices.
It's an artificially setup to stop you, when you think everything you do comes back 3 times against you.
Maybe even a natural occurence, given the possibility of Karma beyond the 3rd dimension, when you use too much (c)opyright claims.

You will lose all initiative to address system damage otherwise. Any future attempt at system HP or anything of the sort will always be equated to integrity by the playerbase.

Everything just needs dual/treeal use.
Hull? Krystal-Errors store energy and hull also stores excess heat or serve as temporary emergency coolant heat sink.

I'd like if you had self-repairing hull and the amount of hull is the limit how much repair-material you can hold.
Hull is mostly mass. Cargo crates may add to this, but only if dedicated to it and not add more than a hull block per crate block.

 

[Az14el]

Some footage and notes on more factual kill times between powerful ships


~20 seconds in some pretty basic beam turrets start hitting the ship, it's *much* heavier mass, it overheats just before 1m in, so 40 seconds, maybe half that without having to run all the block destruction on client.

Combat isn't taking too long, if you're using even remotely capable weapons it's probably too short, i didn't have an even mass ship to test these beams on at the time, but would you believe 5x more beamturret or so kills it faster still?

Extended kiting due to short weapon ranges but reasonably high speeds on most ships extends things, but the kill time once damage is really underway isn't long at all.

 

[kulbolen]

Az14el ...but its really glowy now

 

[Az14el]

ur glowy

 

[RODLON]

Im really happy that you realized what you were doing with the game was not the way, its a huge step to make this game a good one.
But I think it still needs a deep redesign of ship systems and gameplay (probably you already planned for some).
I wrote some comments about this in the past: Comment1, Comment2, Comment3, .

I hope this game would be more like spacestation13. Not for the complexity or the RP, but for the concept of what a player is in the game and how objects interact with each other. Instead of becoming a ship when piloting it or magically mining 12x more minerals just because a chunk of blocks with your name (your faction home station) are nearby.

 

[Dire Venom]

Some footage and notes on more factual kill times between powerful ships


~20 seconds in some pretty basic beam turrets start hitting the ship, it's *much* heavier mass, it overheats just before 1m in, so 40 seconds, maybe half that without having to run all the block destruction on client.

Combat isn't taking too long, if you're using even remotely capable weapons it's probably too short, i didn't have an even mass ship to test these beams on at the time, but would you believe 5x more beamturret or so kills it faster still?

Extended kiting due to short weapon ranges but reasonably high speeds on most ships extends things, but the kill time once damage is really underway isn't long at all.

Thanks for the vid, that seemed a fair and fun fight XD
I do quite like the Space-Jellyfish look you go going on there imo.
I presume those are Arc beam turrets or the such:?

 

[Az14el]

yeah just multi output beam-missile with 0-10% support
should clarify this was just a test vs an inactive BP of another ship from lvd as a "wow look how it quick beams slag things" argument, the real one had a bit much dps for that little ship to tank long enough for the arc beams to plow through it like that (but not even by much hue)

The concept could of course be scaled up to an even size ship and remain pretty defensively/mobility oriented though
thankfully the space jelly is fully hulled with a teeny little interior now haha, but only 1k mass heavier

 

[Erth Paradine]

You could also just give admins a good set of abuse mitigation tools: ways to collaboratively, automatically and swiftly identify and kick bad actors, and keep them off a server, such as the Add APBL Scoring idea proposed a couple of years ago. Also consider following the link in my signature for dozens of relevant, well discussed/thought-out ideas and concepts.

A functional mod API would be a decent place to start too...

 

[aceface]

Some footage and notes on more factual kill times between powerful ships


~20 seconds in some pretty basic beam turrets start hitting the ship, it's *much* heavier mass, it overheats just before 1m in, so 40 seconds, maybe half that without having to run all the block destruction on client.

Combat isn't taking too long, if you're using even remotely capable weapons it's probably too short, i didn't have an even mass ship to test these beams on at the time, but would you believe 5x more beamturret or so kills it faster still?

Extended kiting due to short weapon ranges but reasonably high speeds on most ships extends things, but the kill time once damage is really underway isn't long at all.

how do you get beams to do so much dps? i struggle to get mine that effective...

 

[DarkTranquility]

What is the future timeframe for this? Or the universe update itself.. I can assume a pre universe update. This signals to me to not build anything but hulls untill implementation. And I have a suspicion it could be TBA 2019

 

[BusterCrabb]

Consider decorative vector beam connectors (i.e. Power Sausage IN/ Power Sausage OUT, Each color IN/OUT).
Useful for Role Play, targeting shipyard cores, "painting" lines for signage, etc.
Keep the baby and throw out the bathwater?

 

[Lone_Puppy]

Some footage and notes on more factual kill times between powerful ships


~20 seconds in some pretty basic beam turrets start hitting the ship, it's *much* heavier mass, it overheats just before 1m in, so 40 seconds, maybe half that without having to run all the block destruction on client.

Combat isn't taking too long, if you're using even remotely capable weapons it's probably too short, i didn't have an even mass ship to test these beams on at the time, but would you believe 5x more beamturret or so kills it faster still?

Extended kiting due to short weapon ranges but reasonably high speeds on most ships extends things, but the kill time once damage is really underway isn't long at all.

No chance rescuing popcorn from that microwave. ;-)

 

[DarkTranquility]

Consider decorative vector beam connectors (i.e. Power Sausage IN/ Power Sausage OUT, Each color IN/OUT).
Useful for Role Play, targeting shipyard cores, "painting" lines for signage, etc.
Keep the baby and throw out the bathwater?

That really makes me want a Paintball gun in the game that paints hulls. Also opens up a fun server type... With these server options could be interesting. Battle royal type thing. If blue teams hall gets painted 60% red. Visa versa. And weapons can heal bye design of painting alleys.

 

[TheDerpGamerX]

Glad to see stabilization range reduced. Very glad to see the stabilization stream go.
Removing integrity is a terrible decision though, schema.

Integrity is probably the second best feature of the new systems that ate up the last 18 months of development time (first being ditching the geometric contortionism and very sharp softcap of old power).

No machine or electronic device should be able to continue functioning when substantially damaged. Integrity could be translated to shut-down or penalties (because not everything should explode either), but if you ditch integrity completely at this point you will be closing the door to ever implementing a system remotely similar to it in the future, as people will inevitably scream to the heavens that you are bringing back horrible, terrible, failed integrity that was removed because it sucked so bad.

Even at it's harshest, integrity was still too forgiving, IMO. Which is why we have posts in forum complaining about ships taking way too long to kill.

integrity is awful. it was made to fix spaghetti, yet not only doesnt fix it, it makes everything else worse. the only thing it does is restrict system design as in the more cubic your systems are the better. your statement implies that it will cause substantially damaged systems to stop functioning. while this may be true in some instances due to damage patterns, usually stuff is dead before this even matters. integrity in game, yes, does stop systems from functioning, but not because of the reason you state, its because of the shape not being cubic enough. again, this doesnt really matter because weapons are so unbalanced

also, no one has been complaining ships are too hard to kill, its the opposite. ships are too EASY to kill, like in az1's video