Starmade is boring

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    And by boring I mean everything besides building ships. For the moment and since I began playing this game (before yogcast) starmade is only a sandbox game.
    I like building ships and that's why I still play starmade, but once you're done with your ship you have nothing else (entertaining) to do unless building another ship.

    And that's not only what I think but also what a lot of my friends who play (and stopped for this reason) starmade think. I'm not hating on starmade, I like this game otherwise I wouldn't be writing this.

    The biggest problem in my opinion, starmade lacks things to do (other than building). We need bounties on random NPC ships, trading routes (that you can see on the map) between shops which makes you able to make profit, NPC ships on these routes that you can attack to get some of their cargo and salvage their ships, NPC factions controlling some areas that you could be friend or enemy with giving you something relatively to your status with them (for example if you're friends you could have better prices on some ressources but it could also make you unable to be friend with another faction which they are enemy with, etc), better mining (no more recharge time on salvage, more (interesting) places to mine, etc), a better crafting system (this one is hard to understand, I still don't get it all and I play for more than 2 years), a real economy (that's very important), improved planets (a lot of suggestions on that already), etc...

    This kind of improvements should be added as a priority, I'm not saying rails are bad (actually I love them) but this problem needs to be solved before adding other content. If you're interested in interesting ways (and more elaborated) to solve this problem you can also check an old suggestion of mine (link or spoiler, if you check the link be sure to read replies which are very interesting).

    Hello, I play starmade for a while now and I really like the game because of all the creation possibilities. After talking with my friends and other starmade players we all think its main problem is you have nothing to do once you built your ship (that's why 90% of the people stop playing), even in multiplayer mode you have no real reason to attack another player.

    So before talking about balances and stuff why don't you fix this problem first ? We have to give players a real goal other than building a 3 million blocks capital ship. Herebelow you'll find a possible solution to fix this problem (which gives more sence to the whole game by the way), of course we're still able to improve/change it but here's the main idea :



    Instead of appearing in the middle of nowhere when first joining you should begin the game on a empty planet (if you're playing multiplayer with a friend you could start in the same one, or you also could join an already inhabited planet with the planet's owner autorisation).

    Of course planets will have to be improved a lot because actually they are not really interesting. First of all they should be double-faced (just add a indestructible layer in the middle so there's not any gravity problem), adding fauna to the planet is also important (agressive or passive civilisations and monsters), each planet should be different and have special things other don't have (unique flora, minerals, places to explore) but every planet should have the main minerals you'll use to craft main things (which I'll explain herebelow).



    Once you spawned you'll be free to build your base so you can protect yourself from agressive monsters/civilisations. A diplomatic aspect could be very good, for example you would be able to choose between make peace with another civilisation on your planet (this way you're able to trade with them or ask for help) or destroy them (this way you steal all their ressources).

    You won't be able to explore space from the beginning, you'll have to craft all the components to make your ship from your planet's ressources. Before you explore space you should be comfortable on your planet (you've explored most of your planet, your defences are good enough to keep monsters away, etc), we can imagine different tech-tiers in which you'll be able to progress, for example : At the beginning to defend yourself you'll have to use ballistic technology and later in the game you'll be able to use plasma weapons, etc..



    [OPTIONAL] Power-managing should be added to the game, actually power comes from nowhere (SD HCT xm3.4) but you should have different types of energy. I understand everyone don't want to fill their ships with some kind of fuel, that's why we can keep solar energy as the infinite one, however its recharge rate will depend on the distance from the solar panels to the closer star (and not-infinite energies should be better (but not needed for all kind of ships) than solar one of course).

    Other types of energies (fuel-like ones) should be found on planets, this way you'll have a reason to attack or to colonize other planets (energy-wars) and players will be able to trade fuels for money or whatever they want. Of course to extract or produce the type of energy you want you'll have to use the correct machines and power them. [/OPTIONAL]



    The energy aspect of the game (see above) would be very interesting because it would give players a real reason to attack or trade with other ones. Energy is optional but if you don't add this you must add something similar, something all players need but can't have that easily, because if everyone can have everything with no effort there is no reason to attack your neighboors or to trade with them (and having no interactions with other players in a online game is senceless and very boring).



    I think you get the point, if you need some clarifications or you want to debate about this idea feel free to post below :) !
     
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    I agree that these things need to be added but making sure the basis of the game (building ships and combat) is optimized is slightly higher on the list. After we get the HP system I would love to see work done on these features.
     
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    I agree that these things need to be added but making sure the basis of the game (building ships and combat) is optimized is slightly higher on the list. After we get the HP system I would love to see work done on these features.
    For the moment combat is not the main aspect of the game at all (but I agree it needs to be improved), the only time I fight is against pirates and that's when I'm not building a ship (so almost never), also as far as I know PvP is only played by a small part of the community.

    As I said building ships is the main advantage of this game but also the main problem and that's why most of the playerbase just stop playing after they finish their first "big" ship.
    These problems are actually in my opinion the most important thing to do to make starmade better and have a larger playerbase.

    By the way we already had a similar but very interesting discussion a year or so ago, you can check it on the link I gave on the original post.
     
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    Well Starmade is still in its Alpha Stage, so implementing and testing all the base features is still the priority. And honestly, Starmades development history is quiet sporadic, or you could say unpredictable, but thats rather common with Indie Devs.

    With that in mind, i bet there will be alot to do later on, even for pure PvE players, if not, ill bug the hell out of Schine, but right now there are other things that should be the priority, like finishing all the base features and core mechanics, as well as adding everything else essential, like the HP System, a feature that in my opinion is essential before any kind of fun combat or even balance can be implemented. Working on anything else would just be work to keep the players at bay, or even wasted should it get replaced with a better more refined system later.

    In short, dont worry, i bet content like that will be developed, just not right now.
     
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    Well Starmade is still in its Alpha Stage, so implementing and testing all the base features is still the priority. And honestly, Starmades development history is quiet sporadic, or you could say unpredictable, but thats rather common with Indie Devs.

    With that in mind, i bet there will be alot to do later on, even for pure PvE players, if not, ill bug the hell out of Schine, but right now there are other things that should be the priority, like finishing all the base features and core mechanics, as well as adding everything else essential, like the HP System, a feature that in my opinion is essential before any kind of fun combat or even balance can be implemented. Working on anything else would just be work to keep the players at bay, or even wasted should it get replaced with a better more refined system later.

    In short, dont worry, i bet content like that will be developed, just not right now.
    Most of the things suggested should be base features of the game. And it's also because it's alpha that I make this thread, pointing out the MAIN problem of the game.
    And it is the main problem for sure because after playing for a lot of time and being in contact with a lot of players who play or played this game I can tell you this is the #1 reason why people stop playing starmade.
    So if it's the first reason of why people stop playing I think it should also be the first thing to solve.

    And again combat and balance is not the thing to priorize over the real features of the game, especially when combat is almost inexistant PvE or PvP.
    Even if they balance out all the weapons and make dogfighting actually fun tomorrow, I can tell you in a month we'll have the same or maybe a slightly higher playerbase fighting. Why is that? Simply because there is no reason to fight, no bounties on people, no trading routes, nothing.
     
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    So if it's the first reason of why people stop playing I think it should also be the first thing to solve.
    And thats apparently the thing you ignore or dont understand, Starmade is not a finished game, its an Alpha, so you should not expect it to have the same playablity as a beta or full release. And the base features for NPC Ship Interactions are already in the game, they are just basic and not used by any sophisticated control system, essential features like the HP System are not yet in the game.

    Well combat and balance, those are "real features", without it a large part of the PvE, and the majority of PvP would be mediocre or even frustrating, as it is right now. But i never said that those should be priorized right now, rather all base features that are needed to provide a fun and balanced game experience in the later stage of the games development, the HP System is one of those base features, among many other base features that are needed in the first place to provide what many people want, even what you want, in your case for example AI Controlling, and i dont mean controlling Bobby AIs, but the game itself controlling AI Ships to do certain things, like flying a convoy, which also would requiere some other base features to be implemented, of refined, to make them work in a player engaging way.
     
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    And thats apparently the thing you ignore or dont understand, Starmade is not a finished game, its an Alpha, so you should not expect it to have the same playablity as a beta or full release. And the base features for NPC Ship Interactions are already in the game, they are just basic and not used by any sophisticated control system, essential features like the HP System are not yet in the game.

    Well combat and balance, those are "real features", without it a large part of the PvE, and the majority of PvP would be mediocre or even frustrating, as it is right now. But i never said that those should be priorized right now, rather all base features that are needed to provide a fun and balanced game experience in the later stage of the games development, the HP System is one of those base features, among many other base features that are needed in the first place to provide what many people want, even what you want, in your case for example AI Controlling, and i dont mean controlling Bobby AIs, but the game itself controlling AI Ships to do certain things, like flying a convoy, which also would requiere some other base features to be implemented, of refined, to make them work in a player engaging way.
    I think I understand more than you what's an alpha, I'm playing this game for more than 2 years and the purpose of an Alpha is to contribute to the developement of the game and that's what I am doing by pointing out the main problem of the game and why the players actually stop playing it.
    But you seem to ignore the fact people don't buy the game or stop playing it one month after buying it because of this problem, and if you think fixing HP will make them come back or get interested in starmade then good luck with that sir.
     
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    The way I see it, a public alpha is done so that the game developers can get input from the community. That's a given. But by playing the game in an alpha state, you have to acknowledge that its not complete. These features will be added over time and it's been stated that they are on the agenda what with quests, HP, thrust overhaul, etc. Saying that the game is boring because these features aren't in yet is kind of like saying the leaves are green because its a tree (my metaphor may suck >.> im not good at them). Yes, you can suggest features. But complaining about features that are already planned but haven't been put in yet is more or less pointless. How are you going to take out a bounty on an NPC ship without the proper in-game systems to support it? What would be the point of a trading route without even a rudimentary economy? yes, I know you mentioned economy as well. But you get my point I hope.

    On a side note, whats wrong with the current planets? I rather like them and they seem to fit into the blocky nature of starmade really nicely. ^_^

    Anyway, to summarize, complaining about features that have yet to be implemented but are most assuredly planned makes no logical sense. Arguing about whether said complaining actually helps contribute to the game also doesnt make much sense. The features are planned, they are/will be worked on in the future, and complaining about it really isn't gonna make them come any faster.

    >.> I apologize if I offended anyone, that was not my intent at all. Simply trying to point out the logic in stuff.
     
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    I think I understand more than you what's an alpha, I'm playing this game for more than 2 years and the purpose of an Alpha is to contribute to the developement of the game and that's what I am doing by pointing out the main problem of the game and why the players actually stop playing it.
    Well color me shocked, so playing one game for 2 years makes you understand what an alpha stage is, and of course your understanding of its purpose is something that completly contradicts the fact that most developers keep their alphas inhouse, yet you have to ask about common knowledge like damage pulses being crap? Sure. Sorry for sarcasm, but i cant take that serious.

    But you seem to ignore the fact people don't buy the game or stop playing it one month after buying it because of this problem, and if you think fixing HP will make them come back or get interested in starmade then good luck with that sir.
    Think about this, do you really think Schine wants many people buying Starmade right now in its alpha stage? If you want a statement of a Schine Member, Wedtm talked about this in Jaths Stream.

    And again, ive never claimed that the HP System would make players come back or get people interested in Starmade, i said that its a essential core mechanic needed for future developments.
     

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    There's still a lot to be added to the game, in fact pretty much everything you mentioned in your OP is stuff that is planned to be added in at some point, and there are devs actively working towards some of those different items. Until recently Schema has been the only one who actually has worked on the specific code of the game, now with micdoodle8 and bspkrs we have two more devs who are working actually in the code of the game implementing the features we develop and bug fixing. Hopefully that means you will slowly see an increase in speed of things that get added in.

    My whole job as a dev is to push everything towards the most entertaining, engaging game that StarMade can be. It does take time though as as we add in a whole new element of the game, we need to look at all the existing framework that might conflict with it or need to be updated, that's why the rails update took 6 months from the first concepts to it actually being released. Things like in order to balance the economy and it vs crafting we first need npc factions and as you said, bounties etc, but then that needs some sort of missions system or something to support that, so there's a lot of stuff on the list, and usually speaking stuff lower down on the list requires stuff higher up on the list to be completed first.

    So stick with us, we'll get there.
     
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    I've read a lot of suggestions similar to this thread. I agree with them all, but am patient. I understand that implementing a bunch of different features makes bug tracking harder, and creates problems with compatibility when one feature gets an update/upgrade. NPC AI overhauls would have been made useless had they come out before the rail system, for instance, and would have to be redone again after the HP system is introduced. It just makes more sense to do some things first, and some things later.

    This is by no means an exhaustive list, but the forums I've seen (and remember) that similarly agree with the 'boredom' of Starmade are:

    ================================
    Pirate Difficulty Tied to Distance from Universe Center
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/more-far-away-sectors-more-difficult-pirate-stations.6759/

    NPC-Only Factions, NPC's Owning Territory, and NPC Members of Player Factions
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/dynamic-galaxies-universe.6784/

    NPC Factions with Customized Ships/Ship Waves/Behaviors
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/different-pirate-trade-guild-waves-and-custumable.6643/

    Relics/Rare Items to Encourage Galactic Exploration
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/collectables.6612/

    Rare Ores/Resources to Encourage Galactic Exploration
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/super-rare-resources-and-exceptional-equipment.6527/

    More Galaxy Features to Encrouage Exploration
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/asteroid-fields-nebulas-etc.2075/

    Better AI/Bobby Modules (Variable AI Difficulty)
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/variable-ai-intelligence.6403/

    Expanded Astronaut Mode (farming/food/survival mode)
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/agriculture-in-starmade.6413/

    Expanded Astronaut Mode (combat/equipment/survival)
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/starmade-as-an-astronaut.5086/

    Hidden Recipes/Progressive Gameplay/Unlockables
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/progressive-gameplay.6411/

    Better Shops/Player Trade/Economy
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/shops.6345/
    ================================

    A couple of these have even been marked as 'Planned' by the devs, such as the ones about expanding astronaut mode. I'm happy with the progress that Schine has had so far. I really feel that the Rail Update addressed a huge number of player concerns/suggestions that had been around for a long time.
     
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    There's still a lot to be added to the game, in fact pretty much everything you mentioned in your OP is stuff that is planned to be added in at some point, and there are devs actively working towards some of those different items. Until recently Schema has been the only one who actually has worked on the specific code of the game, now with micdoodle8 and bspkrs we have two more devs who are working actually in the code of the game implementing the features we develop and bug fixing. Hopefully that means you will slowly see an increase in speed of things that get added in.

    My whole job as a dev is to push everything towards the most entertaining, engaging game that StarMade can be. It does take time though as as we add in a whole new element of the game, we need to look at all the existing framework that might conflict with it or need to be updated, that's why the rails update took 6 months from the first concepts to it actually being released. Things like in order to balance the economy and it vs crafting we first need npc factions and as you said, bounties etc, but then that needs some sort of missions system or something to support that, so there's a lot of stuff on the list, and usually speaking stuff lower down on the list requires stuff higher up on the list to be completed first.

    So stick with us, we'll get there.
    thanks a lot for the answer:)!
     
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    I also wanted to add that in my opinion the starmade devs are the best ones I have ever seen in any game (except Path of Exile maybe), you replying to the community on the forums may seem normal but most of the devs don't even bother with that.
     
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    There's still a lot to be added to the game, in fact pretty much everything you mentioned in your OP is stuff that is planned to be added in at some point, and there are devs actively working towards some of those different items. Until recently Schema has been the only one who actually has worked on the specific code of the game, now with micdoodle8 and bspkrs we have two more devs who are working actually in the code of the game implementing the features we develop and bug fixing. Hopefully that means you will slowly see an increase in speed of things that get added in.

    My whole job as a dev is to push everything towards the most entertaining, engaging game that StarMade can be. It does take time though as as we add in a whole new element of the game, we need to look at all the existing framework that might conflict with it or need to be updated, that's why the rails update took 6 months from the first concepts to it actually being released. Things like in order to balance the economy and it vs crafting we first need npc factions and as you said, bounties etc, but then that needs some sort of missions system or something to support that, so there's a lot of stuff on the list, and usually speaking stuff lower down on the list requires stuff higher up on the list to be completed first.

    So stick with us, we'll get there.
    I am not sure if this is a big ask or not but is there the possibility that we can get a list stickied that shows aspects of the game that the devs know full well require development but are just nowhere near being able to address yet and then a separate list of things that much closer to being actively developed that need a clearer consensus from the community to get a full bodied concept.

    I just think that the suggestions forum probably gets lots of wasted attention because people re-post the same idea that everyone wants over and over again because the implementation of that idea takes much longer than it does for various members of the community to independently think of the idea and then post it.
     
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    On a side note, whats wrong with the current planets? I rather like them and they seem to fit into the blocky nature of starmade really nicely. ^_^
    The core is tooooo daaaaaaamn BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG compared to the rest of the planet... I suggested having it's size in the config file, yet nothing happened...

    Think about this, do you really think Schine wants many people buying Starmade right now in its alpha stage? If you want a statement of a Schine Member, Wedtm talked about this in Jaths Stream.
    However, if the devs get money, they can concentrate more on further developing the game, thus the reality renders your argument invalid.
    And again, ive never claimed that the HP System would make players come back or get people interested in Starmade, i said that its a essential core mechanic needed for future developments.
    No, you said they shall maintain the status quo. which, by not making more people buy the game, makes it less likely for the game to keep developing, thus increasing the possibility of the reality rendering this game a dead project.

    I just think that the suggestions forum probably gets lots of wasted attention because people re-post the same idea that everyone wants over and over again because the implementation of that idea takes much longer than it does for various members of the community to independently think of the idea and then post it.
    I, too, would like a "Planned Features" list, in some kind of order, or with some kind of a "likelyhood/probability to be added first"-meter...

    This is by no means an exhaustive list, but the forums I've seen (and remember) that similarly agree with the 'boredom' of Starmade are:

    ================================
    Pirate Difficulty Tied to Distance from Universe Center
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/more-far-away-sectors-more-difficult-pirate-stations.6759/

    NPC-Only Factions, NPC's Owning Territory, and NPC Members of Player Factions
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/dynamic-galaxies-universe.6784/

    NPC Factions with Customized Ships/Ship Waves/Behaviors
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/different-pirate-trade-guild-waves-and-custumable.6643/

    Relics/Rare Items to Encourage Galactic Exploration
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/collectables.6612/

    Rare Ores/Resources to Encourage Galactic Exploration
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/super-rare-resources-and-exceptional-equipment.6527/

    More Galaxy Features to Encrouage Exploration
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/asteroid-fields-nebulas-etc.2075/

    Better AI/Bobby Modules (Variable AI Difficulty)
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/variable-ai-intelligence.6403/

    Expanded Astronaut Mode (farming/food/survival mode)
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/agriculture-in-starmade.6413/

    Expanded Astronaut Mode (combat/equipment/survival)
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/starmade-as-an-astronaut.5086/

    Hidden Recipes/Progressive Gameplay/Unlockables
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/progressive-gameplay.6411/

    Better Shops/Player Trade/Economy
    http://starmadedock.net/threads/shops.6345/
    ================================

    A couple of these have even been marked as 'Planned' by the devs, such as the ones about expanding astronaut mode. I'm happy with the progress that Schine has had so far. I really feel that the Rail Update addressed a huge number of player concerns/suggestions that had been around for a long time.
    Thanks for the list.
     
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    However, if the devs get money, they can concentrate more on further developing the game, thus the reality renders your argument invalid.
    That argument comes from what Wedtm, the COO of Schine, said in Jaths stream, there is a recording of that stream both on Twitch and Youtube, watch it if you dont believe it.

    No, you said they shall maintain the status quo.
    Read it again, then you might notice that i said multiple times that things like the HP System, essential basics of the game which are the foundation of later content, this also includes stuff like rewritting/finishing the AI and other thing, should be prioritized as they are needed for other future developments, whitout them any content added would be mediocre. That has nothing to do with some status quo.

    which, by not making more people buy the game, makes it less likely for the game to keep developing, thus increasing the possibility of the reality rendering this game a dead project.
    If the COO of Schine himself says that they dont want to make big advertisements for the game, as they currently dont want more players, then i guess Schine is doing well enough on money to continue developing until they can advertise with a much more complete game.
     
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    That argument comes from what Wedtm, the COO of Schine, said in Jaths stream, there is a recording of that stream both on Twitch and Youtube, watch it if you dont believe it.
    Which is not a fixed variable which cannot be changed by the outside world known as "reality".

    Read it again, then you might notice that i said multiple times that things like the HP System, essential basics of the game which are the foundation of later content, this also includes stuff like rewritting/finishing the AI and other thing, should be prioritized as they are needed for other future developments, whitout them any content added would be mediocre. That has nothing to do with some status quo.
    I agree with that. I just tried to say that sometimes they have to change the priorities, if they want the game to evolve.

    If the COO of Schine himself says that they dont want to make big advertisements for the game, as they currently dont want more players, then i guess Schine is doing well enough on money to continue developing until they can advertise with a much more complete game.
    The problem is that while he can continue the development, until recently he was the only one working on the game. Which means not a lot of time to actually get the game running. If Schine would get more money, they'd get more man power directed to the game, making it's evolution faster, thus making the possibility of it getting out of alpha sooner, much higher. And since it would be roughly be more or less the same, mechanics-wise, when it would get out of the Alpha, technicly the two things won here are the time (which is constantly running out) and the hype (which is also at a low value). Realisticly speaking, getting more money into a game means it would get more attention from the developers. EA is not a good example of this, thus their econimical dificulties from the recent years.
     
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    Which is not a fixed variable which cannot be changed by the outside world known as "reality".
    Uh fancy. Joke aside, we dont know Schines business plan, so you can either wild guess based on other developers, or take his word for it, "reality" doesnt change that neither you, nor i know the exact truth.

    I agree with that. I just tried to say that sometimes they have to change the priorities, if they want the game to evolve.
    The problem is that while he can continue the development, until recently he was the only one working on the game. Which means not a lot of time to actually get the game running. If Schine would get more money, they'd get more man power directed to the game, making it's evolution faster, thus making the possibility of it getting out of alpha sooner, much higher. And since it would be roughly be more or less the same, mechanics-wise, when it would get out of the Alpha, technicly the two things won here are the time (which is constantly running out) and the hype (which is also at a low value). Realisticly speaking, getting more money into a game means it would get more attention from the developers. EA is not a good example of this, thus their econimical dificulties from the recent years.
    Money doesnt equal efficient man power. While yes with more money they could hire people, but that process is a bit more complex in the outside world known as "reality", as to gain additional efficient man power, you not only need to have to money to hire them, but also the people, they need to own certain skillsets, fit into the current development flow, be interested in the project, be compatible with the rest of the team and they need to be guided, aka some person must manage them, otherwise they could be a waste of money, or even damage the projects progress. Now question is, does Schine know such people or has the capabilities for a bigger team? We dont know.
     
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    There is a whole lot of stuff we don't know. And I guess we all could agree that the most probable outcoule would be that no Game Of Thrones character will survive... at least not any main character, to say the least...

    Joke aside, I agree with what you said. Thing is, if the game is not going to evolve, it will keep losing players, possibly losing the trust of the playerbase, which could cause quite some problems in the future. That's that.
     
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    • Legacy Citizen 2
    Starmade has nice roots, it has all the elements that a space pvp, pirate blasting, planet annihilating, behemoth should have, but it is nothing without a need. Players have no reason to fight, or declare war, and so multiplayer can get a little boring. If elements were thrown in like maybe getting faction points for attacking/conquering enemy ships/stations, that would make everything perfect*.

    After playing starmade for almost two years, I have observed this, and even though it has gotten better about this, (with the addition of faction points and all) I believe it still has a long way to go.


    *- Nothing is perfect, but you get the point.