Planned Starmade as an Astronaut

[Valiant70]

NOTICE: Please do not argue unless you have read this entire post. It ticks me off to no end. (You can skip spoilers.)

I believe the development of rich personal combat mechanics will greatly increase the success and depth of Starmade. Why? With good mechanics, Starmade could be marketed partially as a first person shooter. This would provide the game with the commandos for boarding parties and planetary assaults. Here I'd like to discuss some ideas for personal combat in general, and a few weapons in particular.

Such a vast makeover of the astronaut experience will likely be far down the road after the game solidifies to the point where this content will become more relevant. I'm not expecting you to merge Minecraft and Destiny, mind you, but I (and I assume many others) would love to see a fully fleshed-out feature set for personal movement, survival, and combat. This is an initial discussion of potential far-future content.

Initial concerns
There are a number of issues with the current game that make Starmade a really, really bad FPS. Theses should be solved first and foremost.

1. "LAAAAAAAG!" screamed the noob as he was blown apart by a latent missile blast
Server lag will destroy personal combat. Even a little bit of lag can mean the difference in a fight, so this must be minimized. As such, personal weapons, damage, etc. must receive the highest priority in the game engine, being the first thing calculated, transmitted over the network, etc. I cannot stress the importance of this priority enough. If ships lag, bug out, etc, but gunfights still rage with low latency in the hallways of a crippled titan, Schema's doing it right.

2. Proper personal equipment groundwork
The sorry state of the helmet shows just how much needs to be done. We need proper equipment slots outside of the inventory. Putting your helmet on-off-on-off-on-wut-wut-wut by mousing over it is no good. I'm sure Shema knows better than to do body armor this way. A number of possible systems have been suggested elsewhere, but some of the features I'd like to see are armor, shielding, stealth, and extra suit boosters. Ideally, equipment should be modular. Balancing these features is probably beyond the scope of this thread, as you could write several pages on that alone.
Edit:Lecic has some good ideas for this.

Spoiler: Lecic's ideas

I was just about to make a suggestion myself for astronaut personal equipment.

I think there needs to be a few new functions added to the game- a custom handheld weapon builder, and "augment" slots.

First, custom weapon building. A new factory block of some type. First, you select either melee or ranged.
With melee, you just build a sword or some other weapon out of blocks. Simple enough. Stuff like swing speed and blocking ability are based off of mass and dimensions.
For ranged, you first choose a primary, secondary, and effect via menu. Then, you can place blocks for your gun. The gun can only have one output, which is defined as the forward-most weapon block unless manually set otherwise. Weapon blocks are the only systems on the gun that do anything, besides cameras, which can be used as scopes. They are also the only thing that gives mass to the gun, to allow people to freely decorate their guns with whichever blocks they want, since mass dictates turning speed with the gun out, as well as how fast you can pull up the gun and begin firing. Astronauts now have a power tank and regen in their suit by default, which weapons will use.

Augments are new astronaut metaitem. They would probably built at the same place as custom weapons. The astronaut has SIX slots available for augmentation. Augments are built from 10 of a block, and can be placed on your character to give them that bonus, at the cost of suit power.

Some possible augments-

• Shield Capacitor - gives the astronaut a small shield pool
• Shield Recharger- gives the astronaut a small shield regen
• Thruster- gives the astronaut the ability to fly when effected by gravity (not strong enough to escape gravity without multiple thruster augments), increased movement speed in 0g
• Power Generation- increases astronaut power generation
• Power Storage- increases astronaut power storage
• Basic Armor - gives the astronaut a small HP pool bonus, slightly reduces movement speed
• Standard Armor - gives the astronaut a larger HP pool bonus and armor level, somewhat reduces movement speed
• Advanced Armor - gives the astronaut a much larger HP pool bonus and high armor level, greatly reduces movement speed
• Survival Systems - comes equipped on the astronaut by default. Replaces the current suit helmet. Allows the astronaut to survive in space and on planets with toxic atmospheres. Maybe the astronaut has a helmet slot for normal space survival, but this is an upgrade that allows survival on certain planets?
• Storage- gives the astronaut additional inventory slots
• Passive effects, radar jammer, cloaking, and perhaps even factory enhancers could also be augments.

Most augments would not be visible on the player, but certain ones would, such as armor, thruster (jetpack), survival systems (helmet) and storage (plex styled backpack)

Armor would have a model, but you could apply custom skins to it. The amount of armor visible on the person would increase as they used more augment slots for armor. A single armor might be an armored vest like a bulletproof vest, but 2 might include leg armor, 3 arm armor, 4 a light armored suit, 5 a medium armored suit, and finally 6 with a heavily armored suit.

So, the average astronaut would probably be outfit with a pretty standard set of augments - one capacitor, one recharger, one thruster, one power gen, one basic armor, and one survival system, but there could also be a "juggernaut" style player with 5 heavy armor and 1 power gen (for sustained heavy weapon firing), or a reconnaissance player with jamming, short term cloaking, 2 thrusters, a power gen and an overdrive for quick movement on planets. Large number of choices and many slots would give players tons of customization options.

3. Relevance of personal combat
Currently planetary combat is practically limited to orbital bombardment and boarding actions require several suppression ships fitted with ion, EMP, and stop weapons to pin down a ship with its shields lowered while a boarding party gets in. There have been a lot of suggestions both for planets and ships in this respect, and I'd rather not complicate this discussion by going into details. Suffice it to say this is a prerequisite to the rest of the content in this thread, but is beyond the scope of this thread.

Edit: 4. Better first-person graphics/characterizations/immersion
Crimson-Artist mentioned this as well. I'd like to see my hands, tools, and weapons in first person. If I have a gun out, it's a lot more immersing to see it at the bottom of the screen. Without something along these lines, something just doesn't feel right.

Improvements
These are things that I think need to be added to the game to enrich everything that happens while you're not at the controls of a space ship.

Personal movement
The current movement is kind of... bland. I mean, typical slow-ish run, slower walk, and 5 meter jump. Here are some good additions:

• Crouch/dive for cover/crawl. One key. Hold to crouch, use movement while to lie down and crawl, crouch while airborne to dive to a prone position.
• Dodging and/or rolling (could use the same keys as ship roll by default).
• Proper flight when not in gravity or grappled to a ship. Controls identical to ship core, flight characteristics similar or identical. Perhaps the thrusters would be weaker to keep you from flying off a planet without a core.
• Reduce the ridiculously high 5-meter jump to 3 meters and add a ledge-grab that triggers automatically. Can ledge-grab farther ahead by using the dive-for-cover function.
• Swimming (With proper animations mind you! None of that Minecraft ninja-walking on the surface junk.) Use movement controls to move around underwater similar to space but with a maximum speed of 5 m/sec. Use align control to stick yourself down and walk on the bottom.
• A ranged grapple as suggested by Crimson-Artist. This could be built into a suit by default or be a piece of equipment.

These additional forms of movement will add immersion and fun to moving around the environment and fighting, as well as allowing things to happen that couldn't before.

Better weapon selection
While not critical, it might be nice to have one or two "holster" equipment slots with keys dedicated to draw/holster the items in them. When a holster item is drawn, the hotbar selection is overridden and the bar fades out. This allows for quick-draw weapons fire, etc. Weapons may still be placed on the hotbar. You would most likely use a sidearm and a melee weapon in your holster slots, as these would need to be accessed the fastest. As far as I know, this would be a feature unique to Starmade.

Edit: Where are my feet?
I'd like to see Starmade do something few other games do and let me actually look down and see my feet. This may seem trivial, but I believe such a feature would give Starmade better-than-average immersion in first person. Looking down while trying to stand as close as possible to a ledge and then wondering where my feet are has always been immersion-breaking for me. In that case seeing my feet would be useful as well as fun.

Melee Combat

First, a dedicated melee weapon. The last thing we need is another boring, half-booty melee weapon like a Minecraft sword. Let's do something more spicy. People argue over what it should be, but for the sake of this discussion, we'll assume the weapon is blade-like; can stab, slash and block; and is held in the hand or mounted to the forearm of one's suit.

I'd personally like to see a retractable wrist bayonet, but that's just me... Ignore that! On with the discussion.

Functions:

• Stab: quickly tap and release primary fire - powerful single-target attack directly in front of you. Same power as sniper rifle. Also good for wrecking blocks.
• Slash: hold primary fire and sweep the crosshair slightly to the side. Character makes a 180* swing in the direction of the mouse movement. (can be any angle from vertical to diagonal). Damages all entities it contacts. About half as powerful as a stab.
• Block: Click to block a stab (stabs are hard to block in real life!) or hold to block slashes.

Second, some guns (particularly rifles) should have a block function so that gunmen aren't entirely vulnerable to melee weapons, giving a chance to block an attack and shoot point-blank or draw one's melee weapon. This block could be made weaker than a melee weapon block somehow, like having a shorter window for deflecting a stab.

I'll probably add more stuff to this later, depending on my own thoughts and the feedback I get.

 

[Glutton]

The only experience I have with block games and this type of movement and combat was with Minecraft (via mods).

The weapon suggestions remind me of a more weapons mod in Minecraft. It was very fluid and integrated well with the game.

The other mod with climbing, running, rolling, crouching.... that's a different story. The main problem the mod had (other than being a mod and not in the game) was the way the character interacted with the environment. Due to grabbing ledges, every 2 block wall made people dry hump it like Assassin's Creed. Some times you'd be able to grab or slide right through the ground and suffocate.

While I like the suggestions (more features yay!) the movement stuff might end up really making normal tasks wonky. Right now we can still phase through ships on occasion so the physics may not be there yet, but I'd be down to see this kind of stuff happen


Didn't read the last paragraph until AFTER I wrote this comment #Rebel #YoloSwag #HashtagsCanBeAppliedToAllPartsOfTheInternet

 

[Valiant70]

Didn't read the last paragraph until AFTER I wrote this comment #Rebel #YoloSwag #HashtagsCanBeAppliedToAllPartsOfTheInternet

WRATH! *clobbers you with a raw fish*
(JK)

While I like the suggestions (more features yay!) the movement stuff might end up really making normal tasks wonky. Right now we can still phase through ships on occasion so the physics may not be there yet, but I'd be down to see this kind of stuff happen

Well, what you're talking about is bugginess, not the nature of the game so I wouldn't worry. By the time development for this stuff comes around, the engine should have had a lot of kinks worked out of it.

 

[Lecic]

I was just about to make a suggestion myself for astronaut personal equipment.

I think there needs to be a few new functions added to the game- a custom handheld weapon builder, and "augment" slots.

First, custom weapon building. A new factory block of some type. First, you select either melee or ranged.
With melee, you just build a sword or some other weapon out of blocks. Simple enough. Stuff like swing speed and blocking ability are based off of mass and dimensions.
For ranged, you first choose a primary, secondary, and effect via menu. Then, you can place blocks for your gun. The gun can only have one output, which is defined as the forward-most weapon block unless manually set otherwise. Weapon blocks are the only systems on the gun that do anything, besides cameras, which can be used as scopes. They are also the only thing that gives mass to the gun, to allow people to freely decorate their guns with whichever blocks they want, since mass dictates turning speed with the gun out, as well as how fast you can pull up the gun and begin firing. Astronauts now have a power tank and regen in their suit by default, which weapons will use.

Augments are new astronaut metaitem. They would probably built at the same place as custom weapons. The astronaut has SIX slots available for augmentation. Augments are built from 10 of a block, and can be placed on your character to give them that bonus, at the cost of suit power.

Some possible augments-

• Shield Capacitor - gives the astronaut a small shield pool
• Shield Recharger- gives the astronaut a small shield regen
• Thruster- gives the astronaut the ability to fly when effected by gravity (not strong enough to escape gravity without multiple thruster augments), increased movement speed in 0g
• Power Generation- increases astronaut power generation
• Power Storage- increases astronaut power storage
• Basic Armor - gives the astronaut a small HP pool bonus, slightly reduces movement speed
• Standard Armor - gives the astronaut a larger HP pool bonus and armor level, somewhat reduces movement speed
• Advanced Armor - gives the astronaut a much larger HP pool bonus and high armor level, greatly reduces movement speed
• Survival Systems - comes equipped on the astronaut by default. Replaces the current suit helmet. Allows the astronaut to survive in space and on planets with toxic atmospheres. Maybe the astronaut has a helmet slot for normal space survival, but this is an upgrade that allows survival on certain planets?
• Storage- gives the astronaut additional inventory slots
• Passive effects, radar jammer, cloaking, and perhaps even factory enhancers could also be augments.

Most augments would not be visible on the player, but certain ones would, such as armor, thruster (jetpack), survival systems (helmet) and storage (plex styled backpack)

Armor would have a model, but you could apply custom skins to it. The amount of armor visible on the person would increase as they used more augment slots for armor. A single armor might be an armored vest like a bulletproof vest, but 2 might include leg armor, 3 arm armor, 4 a light armored suit, 5 a medium armored suit, and finally 6 with a heavily armored suit.

So, the average astronaut would probably be outfit with a pretty standard set of augments - one capacitor, one recharger, one thruster, one power gen, one basic armor, and one survival system, but there could also be a "juggernaut" style player with 5 heavy armor and 1 power gen (for sustained heavy weapon firing), or a reconnaissance player with jamming, short term cloaking, 2 thrusters, a power gen and an overdrive for quick movement on planets. Large number of choices and many slots would give players tons of customization options.

 

[CaptainTaz]

I see you decided to create a thread after our boarding talk in Ragnarock Teamspeak :P

((Either that, or this isn't you and I'm talking utter BS))

Either way, I think it sounds fun, but FPS really isn't my thing, so I can't give an accurate opinion without bias. I'll just hang out in my ships and hide behind 1800 layers of blast doors, thank you very much xD

 

[Valiant70]

I was just about to make a suggestion myself for astronaut personal equipment.

I think there needs to be a few new functions added to the game- a custom handheld weapon builder, and "augment" slots.

First, custom weapon building. A new factory block of some type. First, you select either melee or ranged.
With melee, you just build a sword or some other weapon out of blocks. Simple enough. Stuff like swing speed and blocking ability are based off of mass and dimensions.
For ranged, you first choose a primary, secondary, and effect via menu. Then, you can place blocks for your gun. The gun can only have one output, which is defined as the forward-most weapon block unless manually set otherwise. Weapon blocks are the only systems on the gun that do anything, besides cameras, which can be used as scopes. They are also the only thing that gives mass to the gun, to allow people to freely decorate their guns with whichever blocks they want, since mass dictates turning speed with the gun out, as well as how fast you can pull up the gun and begin firing. Astronauts now have a power tank and regen in their suit by default, which weapons will use.

Augments are new astronaut metaitem. They would probably built at the same place as custom weapons. The astronaut has SIX slots available for augmentation. Augments are built from 10 of a block, and can be placed on your character to give them that bonus, at the cost of suit power.

Some possible augments-

• Shield Capacitor - gives the astronaut a small shield pool
• Shield Recharger- gives the astronaut a small shield regen
• Thruster- gives the astronaut the ability to fly when effected by gravity (not strong enough to escape gravity without multiple thruster augments), increased movement speed in 0g
• Power Generation- increases astronaut power generation
• Power Storage- increases astronaut power storage
• Basic Armor - gives the astronaut a small HP pool bonus, slightly reduces movement speed
• Standard Armor - gives the astronaut a larger HP pool bonus and armor level, somewhat reduces movement speed
• Advanced Armor - gives the astronaut a much larger HP pool bonus and high armor level, greatly reduces movement speed
• Survival Systems - comes equipped on the astronaut by default. Replaces the current suit helmet. Allows the astronaut to survive in space and on planets with toxic atmospheres. Maybe the astronaut has a helmet slot for normal space survival, but this is an upgrade that allows survival on certain planets?
• Storage- gives the astronaut additional inventory slots
• Passive effects, radar jammer, cloaking, and perhaps even factory enhancers could also be augments.

Most augments would not be visible on the player, but certain ones would, such as armor, thruster (jetpack), survival systems (helmet) and storage (plex styled backpack)

Armor would have a model, but you could apply custom skins to it. The amount of armor visible on the person would increase as they used more augment slots for armor. A single armor might be an armored vest like a bulletproof vest, but 2 might include leg armor, 3 arm armor, 4 a light armored suit, 5 a medium armored suit, and finally 6 with a heavily armored suit.

So, the average astronaut would probably be outfit with a pretty standard set of augments - one capacitor, one recharger, one thruster, one power gen, one basic armor, and one survival system, but there could also be a "juggernaut" style player with 5 heavy armor and 1 power gen (for sustained heavy weapon firing), or a reconnaissance player with jamming, short term cloaking, 2 thrusters, a power gen and an overdrive for quick movement on planets. Large number of choices and many slots would give players tons of customization options.

I think this would mesh well with the set of ideas I outlined. Honestly, as long as it's balanced and customizable, I'll be happy for the most part. I don't care for the idea of armor slowing you down though, since in the long run shields are better as they regenerate. Keep in mind armor does not harden shields, and characters move slowly in the first place.

I like your weapon idea. I have a feeling most guns will be on the large side, though. Finally a use for a pulse... I can see some heavy-armored guy leap in the middle of people, send out a wave of energy, then whip out some kind of melee weapon and start swinging at the scattered enemies.

Have you thought about cost balancing? Currently there's no way to balance the cost of these items because they're so small it would be stupid to have them cost a ton. Perhaps some rare resources should be added to use in these personal equipment items, with the excuse that these rare minerals are needed for nanotechnology in the suits.

 

[dannsair2]

I am all for it. what about the AIs.

 

[Lecic]

I think this would mesh well with the set of ideas I outlined. Honestly, as long as it's balanced and customizable, I'll be happy for the most part. I don't care for the idea of armor slowing you down though, since in the long run shields are better as they regenerate. Keep in mind armor does not harden shields, and characters move slowly in the first place.

I like your weapon idea. I have a feeling most guns will be on the large side, though. Finally a use for a pulse... I can see some heavy-armored guy leap in the middle of people, send out a wave of energy, then whip out some kind of melee weapon and start swinging at the scattered enemies.

Have you thought about cost balancing? Currently there's no way to balance the cost of these items because they're so small it would be stupid to have them cost a ton. Perhaps some rare resources should be added to use in these personal equipment items, with the excuse that these rare minerals are needed for nanotechnology in the suits.

Hmm.... maybe the "nanites" or whatever could only be found in pirate station loot in small quantities.

 

[Valiant70]

Hmm.... maybe the "nanites" or whatever could only be found in pirate station loot in small quantities.

Nanites: Starmade's "black gold." (or grey? but that would be lame.) Dude, that totally reminds me of a song by Miracleofsound called The New Black Gold. Funny thing is it's about a cyborg.

 

[Snk]

Good idea.

 

[ante185]

Kind of reminiscent of the personal defense thread back in the old forum.

Also Lecic, Valiant was talking about having the ability of blocking with ranged weapons if someone gets the drop on you, maybe you could have something that'd allow you to be more efficient at blocking? like using armor blocks on the weapon, maybe literally building a shield with a gun attached, that'd come at the cost of turning acceleration due to its inertia of course!

 

[CaptainTaz]

Kind of reminiscent of the personal defense thread back in the old forum.

Also Lecic, Valiant was talking about having the ability of blocking with ranged weapons if someone gets the drop on you, maybe you could have something that'd allow you to be more efficient at blocking? like using armor blocks on the weapon, maybe literally building a shield with a gun attached, that'd come at the cost of turning acceleration due to its inertia of course!

*Watches as players use these new machines to blockade other players inside their ships for kidnappings*

Yes. I want this.

 

[Crimson-Artist]

Fantastic Ideas!

I've said this before but according to the animation commands for NPCs some of the things you've suggested appear to be in the works. notably Crawling and Melee combat. Crawling animations appear to a WIP since activating them on a NPC only causes them to walk in place while Melee attack animations actually have the NPC punch.

I've had my own thoughts on astronaut combat as its one of the reasons I chose this game over Minecraft

1. Astronauts need an Energy Meter similar to ships. It would be the basis for all new astronaut actions
2. Astronauts will have more natural abilities. Sprinting(in gravity)/Boosting(when no gravity) to get to placed faster and both will draw from the energy meter. Crawling/crouching to duck in and out of cover or to get into small 1 block high areas and natural shielding for all (it will regenerate by taking energy)
3. Helmets as an item will be removed and instead become a part of our character. With a press of a button we can equip it and remove it. they will also gain a combat centered ability of being able to see the current health/shields of other astronauts/ships/blocks
4. The Weapons tab while in Astronaut mode will become a equip screen showing our current status as equipment. We will have 1 slot for weapons, 1 for tools, and 1 for augmentations (building on Lecic 's idea)
5. Weapons and tools can be brought out and put away with different inputs while augmentations will be a passive upgrade. The reason for 1 slot is that it will encourage player specialization in combat. right now players can be everything from a frontline soldier to an engineer as long as they have the appropriate equipment on them which destroys any kind of balance
6. While weapons are self explanatory, tools will be the Repair beam, Power supply beam (which should have a power drain as an alt fire), as well as the Marker beam (which should have a combat use as being able to mark targets for the AI or perhaps allowing players to see enemy astronauts behind walls)
7. A new tool should be introduced called the Polarity Gun. It will act as our grappling hook with 2 firing modes. primary fire will pull us toward objects while alt fire will pull objects toward us. Grappling to something will cost energy and can be used on everything from players to ships. too keep this from becoming broken grappling players will cost significantly more energy than grappling to ships or the environment.

 

[jayman38]

That's something I hadn't thought of before, but would be neat: remove the HUD when the helmet is off outside of a structure. (And maybe in build mode, to promote better screenshots?)

 

[Valiant70]

That's something I hadn't thought of before, but would be neat: remove the HUD when the helmet is off outside of a structure. (And maybe in build mode, to promote better screenshots?)

There's a separate key already for screenshots without GUI.

 

[Crimson-Artist]

i would've also added first person characterizations. i would like to see my hands as well as any gun that i currently have equipped

 

[Mariux]

Also, don't forget recoil... I know that laser rifles shouldn't be producing any, but if kinetic weapons are ever implemented, it would add a lot to the game. Speaking of ammo types, I have a few ideas.

Kinetic: Good old bullets. Recoil, limited ammo, medium damage
Laser: Basically like the laser pistols we have now, but no recoil, low damage, uses suit power (if this becomes a thing) or overheats and needs to cool down.
Plasma: Low recoil, high damage, efficient on ammo (which is probably hydrogen, and that weighs practically nothing), uses a lot of power or overheats quickly.

And then there's your usual weapon types: pistols, rocket launchers, carbines, shotguns and so on. When you craft one, the crafting receipe depends on the type of ammo and weapon type, so you can make a laser pistol, plasma "rocket" launcher, kinetic carbine and so on.
[DOUBLEPOST=1420633804,1420633759][/DOUBLEPOST]

That's something I hadn't thought of before, but would be neat: remove the HUD when the helmet is off outside of a structure. (And maybe in build mode, to promote better screenshots?)

That's F6 I'm pretty sure.

 

[Valiant70]

Also, don't forget recoil... I know that laser rifles shouldn't be producing any, but if kinetic weapons are ever implemented, it would add a lot to the game. Speaking of ammo types, I have a few ideas.

Kinetic: Good old bullets. Recoil, limited ammo, medium damage
Laser: Basically like the laser pistols we have now, but no recoil, low damage, uses suit power (if this becomes a thing) or overheats and needs to cool down.
Plasma: Low recoil, high damage, efficient on ammo (which is probably hydrogen, and that weighs practically nothing), uses a lot of power or overheats quickly.

And then there's your usual weapon types: pistols, rocket launchers, carbines, shotguns and so on. When you craft one, the crafting receipe depends on the type of ammo and weapon type, so you can make a laser pistol, plasma "rocket" launcher, kinetic carbine and so on.
[DOUBLEPOST=1420633804,1420633759][/DOUBLEPOST]
That's F6 I'm pretty sure.

One thing though - I can't stand recoil that pushes a character backward when your feet are planted firmly on the ground. It's not realistic (you'd be knocked over more likely) and it's just plain annoying. I could see it jerking your camera view/aim around though. Fire your sniper rifle and it kicks your aim up a few meters, requiring you to re-align it like in real life.

Recoil while floating in space is a different matter. In that case you should be pushed backward unless there's something to stop you (like boots being clipped to something). It would be weird not to get pushed, plus this gives laser weapons an advantage over the more potent kinetic weapons in space.

 

[ante185]

Yeah, recoil along those line would be OK, one thing we could do with weapons is to give them a light signature, so depending on how powerful they are you'd emit a brighter light at your position, kinetic weapons would of course be the ones with the lowest light signature as a laser or plasma projectile would require more energy to be produced, then comes lasers with a moderate level and at the top you'd have plasma weaponry. so if you fancy high power weaponry but you don't want to get spotted you'd prefer your kinetic rifle above anything else, kind of

 

[Valiant70]

I should probably bump this...