Big Ships are Terrible now...

[Alpha_Squad]

Before reading this thread I too thought the latest update ruined giant ships, but now having read the three pages I see the error of my ways. Granted the game still has problems, but I think this update did more help than harm. Having a giant ship shouldn\'t be the ultimate strategy in defence.

However, the best AMC currently shouldn\'t be so cheap (nor should it be too expensive). I may be no veteran, but I think the best cannon should happen around 100 blocks. This way fighters would have a more substantial cost to using the best guns without it being impossible, though AMCs are overpowered regardless.



As a side note drone vs drone battles are now pointless (more pointless) as they can easily out-tank eachother XD.

 

[Nootau]

Check and ask in server forums or server chat.

 

[ShadowHunter12]

Heres my solution to any starmade problem,

1.dock 30+ ai ships with Disintegrator clusters on the front on the bottom of any ship

2.undock them next to anything that needs to die

3.Bug out 5 minutes ago.

This strategy is extremely effective be it fighters or capital ships, the swarmers overload the turrets and move too fast to be tracked by fighters, they also provide amazing turret cannon fodder while your big ship drops the other\'s shields so the bombships can make swiss cheese out of it.

 

[Tomino_sama]

I found that once I went over 1,000,000 Shield Points that was enough of a buffer. The Main weapon deals over 120,00 per volley and fully auto. It is a Gatling Shotgun Type AMC Array.



As many have pointed out. Capitals should be escorted by a fleet of smaller ships. A Lone Capital is a Dead Capital.

 

[Arg0n]

Considering that this game is still in alpha and alot of weapons and equipment haven\'t even been concieved yet, it\'s funny that people are obsessing over strategies and designs in regards to this change as if this is the way it\'s going to be forever. For all we know, a patch in the next month could completely change how fighters or capitals work in yet another way. Discussing changes is fine, but consider that everything can (and very likely will) change again very soon, so just try to enjoy the ride, and leave the emotional over-reactions out of it.

 

[Ludovsky]

A way to fix this might be two possibility. One would be how AMCs scale up in power with increased size, the other depends on the possibility of weapons not yet developped and future balance tweak to AMC once these weapons are introduced(this IS still an alpha at the end of the day).

One: More or less, make AMC indeed stronger and with a longer range as they increase in size, but make their reload time longer. This would present the smaller AMC weapons as equivalent to light caliber rapid fire weapons, while the bigger ones might act like slower guns and artillery... outranging the former and dealing more damager per shots making them great long-range sniper/artillery(especially if AoE is increased for bigger AMC to offset some of the slower firing rate since current AMCs only blow up one block per shots).
This would lead the smaller gun to be used on interceptors(small agile ships meant to intercept other small ships) and larger ship defensive turrets and positions, whereas the later would see more use against unaware ships and large capital ships.

Another possibility would be to indeed confirm the AMC as a rapid fire weapon, still only damaging a single block per shots, even at increased size, but drastically scale back how it\'s damages increase with size, and instead make a new weapon for dedicated \"artillery\"/anti-capital ship roles similar to the former idea and possibly with similar mechanics(larger weapons reload more slowly). Such a weapon would cost more but would deal more damage per shots ontop of having a little bit of Area of Effect allowing it to take out multiple blocks per shots(with a larger affected area for a larger, but slower-firing, gun). The larger guns should have issues hitting small targets like fighters, but cripple them even on a first shot if they do hit.

 

[lord_farquad]

Not gonna lie, this nerf pretty much ruined the game for me, as I am not really here to fiddle around with small ships for hours on end (let\'s face it big ships are cool).... why was the nerf not simply an exponential decrease in shield regeneration relative to shield blocks used?



ex. 400 shield blocks = 4k regn per sec, 4000 shield blocks = 20k regen per sec (note, not real numbers, just an example).

 

[supernova888]

I think that the game is being put more towards the design of your ship than anything, I mean old style caps will maybe or maybe not work but this means there\'s a new way of doing it and if you design your ship right, no matter how long you spend it\'s chances are based on the design, maybe schema highlighted this purposefully,

i mean anyone can build a block of weapons with a bit of shield but now that the option to do that and abuse the game is out people can\'t be bothered designing proper defences economically, and repairs are a realistic part of the game too.

I do think that if you make a good design or a bad one it only qualifies if it can take a fight, and the games no fun without a challenge

 

[BDLS]

Perhaps you guys who are complaining about the shield changes should look into re-engineering your ships and/or piloting skills if tiny fighters are taking them out. Just a thought.

 

[kiheerSEDMAN]

I do think that the update is bad, since a little ship shouldn\'t be able to SINGLE HANDEDLY kill a bigger more expensive on, as for the examples of the Bismark and Yamamato, do you realize that they were killed by a **** ton of fighters and bombers not one little one.

I support nerfing capitals, but this is overcompensating, the update goes to far. It is a few steps too far in the right direction, that it becomes the wrong direction.

I think that the idea of FTLs and changing top speed to be proportional to mass is a great idea, and works well with a IMPROVED version of this change.

One other thing, is if we are going to have to start using turrets, fighters, escorts, etc. which I fully support, the AI seriously needs an overhaul. This includes commands, and the ability to have action groups to better coordinate your fighters, turrets, escorts, etc.

A scenario- A capital ship is caught by another capital ship, one player has a working AI system, he can task his fighters to attack the other ship and the escorts to make a shield and follow him, until presto, the other lone capital is royally screwed, then he can push a button and every AI gets back in formation or docks inside his ship.

This deals with giving lone players a chance if their faction isn\'t on 24/7 and fixes my little fighters\' tendency to \'wander off\'

 

[supernova888]

I think that the game is now more sharpened and balanced, if you want a good ship then design it right,

capitals guard carriers with heavy fire power and impenetrable shields, carriers guard the capitals with mobile anti-strike craft units to be deployed whilst missile gunships and heavy firepower ships with less armour than normal protect the capital ship and the carrier in all directions, sins of a solar empire is an amazing example of such tactics, now,

if you design one ship right it will be fine but if it\'s our numbered you need more ships?sure,

but make sure you not only design these right but also DESIGN THEM TO THE FLEET DESIGN

i mean if your design of turrets or strike craft can\'t manage to defend a certain shaped ship then you need to redesign them,

if your capital has useless defences get more strike craft and therefore more gunships and frigates and battle ships,

if your gunships and all the exterior fleet can\'t do the job then redesign them as well so they can either multitask with enough fire power to hurt, prioritise targets better, select targets better, use evasive manoeuvres , improve teamwork,

i mean seriously guys this game just started getting tactical, you will now have factions creating fleets and armadas and fighting it out on solar systems (much like soase),

tactics, logistics, teamwork and the design of your craft down to the core

are the essence of every victory or loss in space or in the ocean,

it depends on these points,

so fighters, get armour and light fire power for durability,

bombers, get higher fire power and less armour, you want to be in and out without a trace, radar jammers if you can afford it,

gunships, work together, focus on the easiest shield*firepower*armour ratio available to destroy, or group up on dangerous targets, the two fastest ways of dealing with enemies,

capitals, don\'t worry about the strike craft your turrets can handle them, if they can\'t take it to the workshop, so focus on the enemy capitals, your the only one with enough firepower to disable them,

carriers, focus on intercepting fighters and disabling or distracting turrets, remember , if a capital ship can use all it\'s turrets and yours can\'t then you have lost the battle before its started, it\'s the same for the opponent however so you know to focus on the enemies turrets before their main hull and shields, and get long ranged

weaponry for such things, your Fighters and bombers can worry about defends and counter strikes or keeping turrets occupied and vulnerable,

Gentleman, prepare for a world of tactics where ballistic warfare is no longer valid, big ships take out little ships is why fleets and tactics were invented

See you on the battlefield.

supermova888@

 

[Dire Badger]

I keep getting the feeling that a lot of the people griping about the buff haven\'t lost a single \'big ship\' yet... They are simply terrified by the IDEA that they cannot simply dump their kilometer-long portable battle platform made of one gun in a sector anymore and ignore it for a week. Munchkins always squeal when you take away their armor of invincible protectyness.

What this change takes away:

near-infinite invulnerability to anything save the main weapon on an identical ship



What this change adds:

Meaningful station defenses (rate of fire is finally useful)

useful special-purpose ships

death star assaults

tactical assaults

searching out defensive weaknesses

useful drones

useful turrets



Essentially what this adds is both \'options\' and \'flavor\'. It adds the option for small squads and even drone fleet actions to be useful. It adds the options to concentrate on varied firepower instead of \'the dude with the biggest gun wins\'. and most importantly, it fits the definitive fiction of the genre more closely. Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, The Man-Kzin wars, Honor Harrington, The Shiva effect, Star Frontiers, the Battletech Universe, and virtually every \'space battle\' genre in existence relies on the idea that MULTIPLE size and classes are neccessary (combined arms). Sometimes a medium or small ship should be capable of performing in ways the biggest ship could never be useful.



Medium ships are now finally a viable option in a universe that previously consisted of nothing but \'tugboats\' and \'superdreadnaughts\'. I cannot understand how ANYONE can complain about adding variety to this genre.



Munchkins will always be present in every game... but I strongly suggest that you do not cater to this small and extremely vocal minority, as they can suck all the fun out of any game with their arrays of spreadsheets and constant bickering about the \'perfect build\' and outrage at any change that introduces creative potential at the cost of their uberleet dominance.



The only thing holding back an incredible rennaissance of ship design is...those darned drones not being able to land themselves or at least follow you :P

 

[Ludovsky]

An interesting potential fix for the drone issue might be the addition of a tractor beam allowing you to grab and auto-dock unmanned ships(like drones).

Otoh, a system of identification might be required in some way to make sure only you could grab your drones this way.

Then again, it just shows one of the challenge that developping a game is and the many factors a person must think about.

 

[Dire Badger]

Once modmaking becomes more stable, (if he hasn\'t done it already) that\'s definitely something to add to docks to make them more viable... instead of \'launch\' you could set an empty one up to \'recover\'. of course, everyone will start making cockpits above their landing bays to guide the recover beams.... but that\'s not really such a bad idea, when you think about it.

 

[HadrasVorshoth]

Build smart. Don\'t just build because it looks cool.

Look at yourself. Do you really need a ship that dwarfs planets? That sucker\'s going to be a target for every cut-throat, every pirate, every mad ex-space cadet with a grudge because he failed his Basic Politics course.

So much booty in such a large ship, it\'s ridiculous.

Any sufficiently large ship will need to be either armed to the teeth because it is just that much of a noticeable thing, or be capable of disappearing at will via spacey wacey techy pechy shenanigans.

A carrier without ships to defend itself is just a pile of metal slag waiting to happen.

Build smart, build them quick, build them strong.

 

[JWA]

wooooow, chill already. It is in alpha. Constant changes are being made. Your ship is not useless because it doesn\'t work well right this freakin second. Go outside and play for a minute, things will probably change again soon. No reason for all this drama.

 

[MelkorNovaRP]

I agree at least let us control the turrets by ourselves by using the cockpit veiw buttons!

_ = ship ^ = turret

---------^-^-^--^-^-^--------

my point is if you want to switch from the ship to the turret instead of left and right for cockpits if a turret is docked with you just use the up button to switch to a turret docked with it, similar to the cockpit veiwing exept with ships, also i suggest to have a module for this to be enabled.

 

[Dire Badger]

You can already control the turret yourself. If you are worried about boarding it during a firefight, build an access hatch beneath it.

 

[TangentialThreat]

Many of the \"capital\" ships I see turn out to be just prett hollow shells with hardly anything in them. If your star destroyer has a 1:5 thrust to mass ratio then you\'ll be outmaneuvered and destroyed. Please please take the time to build actual ships and learn the game mechanics.

 

[Jim-Dandy]

Before the patch even that was impossible.

I saw 3 capital ships firing one ship mostly made of shields and they were not able to get trough them and that ship could have fired back and send those 3 to oblivion.