Big Ships are Terrible now...

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    more credits: /give_credits yourname amount

    Items: /giveid yourname itemid amount



    link to item ids:

    http://star-made.org/wiki/item-ids
     
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    \"was basically surgery with a sledgehammer it was a giant change out of the blue with what seemed like very little testing beforehand\"

    The game is an alpha. This is -exactly- the phase during which sledgehammer grade change are likely to be applied with little testing, because this is literally the one phase where they will be meant to be tested.

    People built themselves expectations of what the game \"should\" be in what is still technically completely \"tentative\" iterations of rulesets, stats and ideas that can be prone to be modified entirely in sweeping change with little warning if the developper(s) feels that finally the idea didn\'t correspond in practice to what they felt it was like on paper.

    For but one example, Starbound(another sandbox game, but this time a platformer) once had the concept of the players starting out in a large abandonned space stations from which they could launch themselves with a dropship to explore procedurally generated worlds. A station that could be modified with many modules to serves as player\'s base.

    Suddenly, without warning as the game still worked(and still are) on the game, mentions of the space stations absolutely ceased. There was no more space stations, but this time a spaceship(the old dropship upgraded) that could be upgraded with additional room to still serve as a player\'s base, albeit a mobile one that would combine both space station and dropship features. Sometimes post-release they are also musing with the idea of FTL-like combat.


    Then again, without warning, as a lone developper\'s special weekend project where he dusted off the old space station files to test an idea, the space station -might- make a return this time not as a lone player\'s base, but as structure players that are part of a clan on a server could purchases as a clan-base/house.

    ... and development is such that even this could be dropped at any times, without warning, if they feel the results are unsatisfactory to their vision of the game. And they are technically a game which might possibly be already in beta even if not an open one, or at the very least past what people conventionally see as the \"alpha\" phase.

    Starmade in comparison is still in alpha. And if the developper made such a change, maybe it indeed reflect that the devs -do- intend bigger spaceships to outperform other ships in all areas except maneuverability. Remember that at the end of the day, this is a game in development(and very early development) that -will- be prone to drastic changes to better represent what game the developper want to present.
     

    MrFURB

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    Please note that all the changes the game goes through are put through us, the Testers first. We weed out bugs and provide feedback.
     
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    Oh im well aware that sweeping changes are made to games all the time and thats kind of the point of alpha and beta testers is to TEST these things, im saying PEOPLE on a whole are the issue. The number of people who understand the concept of alpha is alpha is absolutely tiny and quiet compared to the other side of the coin. My post was mostly just to point out, that not all of us are raving lunatics.



    Also as for Starbound, love that game, looking forward to it\'s beta.
     
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    Dreadnaught would not hit a cruiser. Dread is always fit for killing big shit. That\'s it\'s job. That\'s all it does. That being said, you made an extremely valid point.

    EDIT: Dreads even have trouble hitting battleships, even if they\'re fit for that role (such as in WH sites)
     
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    I have a huge ship, (21K mass) and it is not affecting me at all. Ships can send all the missiles they want and it wont do nothing. Find a balance between the right amount of shields. 1.0 recov is great.
     
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    This is honostly confusing, atleast for me (when reading this thread) - I just started playing 2 days ago, I really love the game, but reading this really makes everything sound odd - some say that a single small ship can take out a massive ship, and then I read somewhere that it actually takes quite a long time before it\'ll even be through the shields - doesn\'t that mean that you\'d have plenty of time to react, with either one or another smaller docked ship inside of your capital one ?



    And at the same time, doesn\'t it also mean that you have to think more carefully of when to pull out the big guns, and not just be able to camp in enemy space with no consequence ?



    I love huge ships, and certainly also planning on designing some myself. But to put it on the other side, having a small ship heading towards a capital ship, and otherwise tear through both shield and armor, and eventually take out the core within a relatively short amount of time does sound a bit silly due to the price differences.



    Hopefully large/capital ships are supposed to have their place in Star Made, while smallers will have theirs as well, like having small fighters for precision shooting, to take out specific modules, engines and what not on large ships (if shields are down even - this is honostly a really tricky balancing issue). As mentioned above, having better armor blocks might help out quite a lot.



    EDIT: Another thing would be to have variables changable in the server config for shields so admins can decide how shields are supposed to work ?
     
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    I\'m seeing two sides.

    \"A small ship shouldn\'t be able to take out a big ship.\" A very valid point, but the counter point is also true: \"A big ship should not be practically invincible.\"

    Personally, I\'m siding with what schema\'s done. While not perfectly balanced, at least it\'s a step in the right direction. Big ships before were practically invincible if it werent for salvage cannons being able to be used, but that exploit\'s been squashed.
     
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    Yep, most people whining are because they don\'t know how to PvP and have no defensive turrets / not enough offense, or haven\'t even tried and are just whinning because even though they now have 500k shields (or way more), their shields actually drop down in battle.
     
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    A big ship wasn\'t practically invincible though, that\'s the point. If you have a ship of similar size, or multiple smaller ones of total equal mass, then it can easily be destroyed. The concern shouldn\'t be about the size of the ship, more so about the shields vs cannons question, so if you had two ships the same, would they be able to destroy each other, or just sit there shooting each other with shields still holding?
    I believe even a slightly smaller ship with sufficient cannons before would\'ve been able to tear through a larger ship\'s shields, so wasn\'t completely unheard of. It also comes down to ship design. More shields, or more cannons?
     
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    I think hulls need improvements to resit missles.Most of you also need to put more effort into your ships and tatics.You will have to do some thing about the fighters.If your turrets are having trouble hitting them then get close or use your main cannons.Also for most ships renforce your hull.You need to be prepared for your sheilds to go down.Also remember to atleast dock your important ships to your home base.
     
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    Hmmm. small ships over-powered. Big ships under-powered....

    Aha! Cover your big ship in small ships! Ablative fighters!
     
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    Ships that are more or less completely covered in turrets are annoying. While never nearly as tough as the main ship, each turret gets a separate shield recharge and diminishing returns. Turrets will also always absorb at least one missile because of how explosions work in Starmade. I suppose you could also try swarms of Bobby fighters.



    If you are very lucky the Bobby AI will also work and they\'ll do their intended purpose in addition to being ablative armor. If you are unlucky you\'ll adjust the faction module, log out, and log back in to a ship full of dozens of undocked turrets/fighters that are now colliding and causing lag.
     
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    That\'s why I build carriers. Throw a bunch of AM turrets on it, stuff it full of fighters/bombers amd fling them at the enemy. We\'ve actually had fights where the fighters hide behind my carrier and used it as a missile sponge.

    Turrets and fighters chop down the enemy shields, and then we either get a gunner to fire the spine mounted torpedo gun, or send in bombers with dumbfire.

    I\'ve certainly had some close calls, and almost always had to repair the score marks on the hull due to sheilds going down multiple times, but no hit has ever damaged a system because I placed them right and armoured them, plus maneuvering so I hid my important bits.
     
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    my 1/5th scale Enterprise reboot build started with a dry dock absolutely covered in turrets and shields to protect it first. I\'m going to have to swallow the bullet and built turrets on the enterprise to keep it safe in space as well. *Shrugs* gigantic ships are not gone... they\'re just dated. That and the scale allows me to put dozens of missles on the ship, and i\'ll just unload if i get pissed. :P

    I don\'t know if i will ever take the enter prise out of dry dock. its more of a concept build than a \'daily cruiser\' like my heavy fighter build turned into.
     
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    Once missiles get a much needed speed buff, and heat seakers no longer try to destroy all your friendly ships as well, larger ships will be able to spam missiles all over the place and be much more threatening.
     
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    the hilarious thing is that you all are complaining now. . . you should have been around when he chased off a bunch of people when he launched the new \"power curve\" where power didnt add exponentially. granted he calmed some of us by saying \"its still in alpha. the game is going to change. dont worry.\" but yeah he has in the past and most likely will continue in the future to try and cripple large behemoths. in all honesty though its his game. he can do whatever he wants with it.
     
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    Well as said, it\'s \"His\" game.

    And maybe that\'s the thing, that he doesn\'t want \"big ships\" being the only direction of design progression, just one of many with both it\'s advantages and flaws inherent to the design.... like other designs could have their own flaws and advantages.