Big Ships are Terrible now...

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    Well now to make a suggestion so that instead of having that diamond on your core, it\'ll be placed around the entire ship. That way, you won\'t have people just targetting your core instead they\'ll guess where your core is or shoot your entire ship to make its way inside.
     
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    Eve online. Yeah this is nothing like it gameplay wise but there are posts using the size class system. So I would like to point towards how pvp works. As a general rule, any ship is capable of killing any other ship if you fit it and use it right.

    Example, a huge ass dreanaught gets himself in a situation where he is caught by 3 smaller ships. A bomber, an intercepter and a cruiser.

    So, in one case the dread is fit for killing big ships and has weapons capable of killing just about anything in secconds, if it can hit. It may be able to get a shot or two into the cruiser and kill it but it would probably have taken some considerable damage before he was finished. The intercepter and bomber would take down any remaining shields with the bomber planting a missile volly into the core. Bad end.

    Second case, the dread has reduced fire power because it decided to sacrifice some of the weapons systems for turrets. The pilot may have also decided to bring a couple of freinds along in fighters, in this case the fighters would easily be able to take down the bomber and intercepter while the turrets pulverise the cruiser. Even without backup the turrets would cause the 2 smaller ships with not much shielding to have to keep distance or be hit by several medium sized guns, poor acuraccy or not, that hurts, this will make them a lot easier to hit with the main guns. Good end.

    Tldr, you now have to be carefull and not take your nice big ship, which took you ages to build into situations where it is vunerable. Rather than bringing in your big ship with 9999999999 shield regen per sec and watching as the puny mortals thow themselves down at your feet in awe.
     
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    If I recall well, though it was a whole fleet which took down the HMS bismark....

    ... it was a mere torpedo from a flight of sea planes which crippled it in a fashion where it could only naviguate in circles anymore, rendering it effectively useless.

    And I could count many many examples of modern RL technology which can be best summed as \"how the greatest threat to battleships(and reason for their extinction) is not other battleships but mere \"puny\" fighter planes with just \"the right weapon\".

    Which is also why having an aircraft carrier is such a big deal for a nation\'s millitary. It\'s not a matter of \"I have a big ship with many many little planes.\"
    It\'s a matter \"I have a platform which I can relocalizes wherever the hell I want, to project weapons of massive destruction beyond even their own impressive range\". (long story told short, there is a reason why the age of battleships is over).
     
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    Why are you complaining about this so badly. It makes the game more fun as you can\'t made an entire cube of shields and power and be indestructible. Fair enough the armours to weak but I find that the shields are fine. Just add a few more armour classes. One with 1000hp and so on.
     
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    Alternative: Introduce a missile type that imparts a stacking shield regen debuff, but does squat to armor?

    I\'m thinking along the \'bomber\' line here. Under \'normal\' circumstances, I would think that a very large ship SHOULD be able to tank a small fighter or two, if the fighters were fit for just dmg. Match the dmg potential to the ship size sort of thing. But, with some specialization, they would then be able to make a large ship with high regen tank vulnerable.

    Rather than having two small fighters smacking on a big ship\'s shield tank, you have one outfit to be a shield bomber that would do bonus dmg vs shields and reduce the regen, and once the shield is down, the fighter would be able to do dmg to the ship itself.

    Food for thought.
     
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    If a small ship wants to get weapons to kill larger ships, then the weapons should cost as much as the larger ship\'s worth. If the smaller ships cost as much as the larger ship, then this would be more fair. Other wise, no. Then again, these weapons should be factory only and a pain to make to be about as annoying to make arm and use as it is to build a large ship.

    Food for thought.
     
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    Personally I hate the new update so much. The shields change is just a bad idea and it\'s ruined any \'love\' of me building anything more than 1000 mass... It\'s just pointless now. It just ruins the game for me imo.
     
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    Personally I hate the new





    Personally I hate the new update so much. The shields change is just a bad idea and it\'s ruined any \'love\' of me building anything more than 1000 mass... It\'s just pointless now. It just ruins the game for me imo.
     
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    If you build to build and not to be efficent at PVP, why not join a Non-PvP server. PvPing in a 80,000 Mass ship is still enjoyable and effective if you use it/build it right.
     
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    how it is supposed to be (before schema messed up the balance of the game)

    if you are in a fighter you know what you do? you AVOID the big ships because they can simply just kill you if they land 1 hit on you and you could not possibly take down their shields. you know how you would have to approach this issue? you go and build a BIG SHIP. then the 2 big ships duke it out until one is left overheated and destroyed. fighters are NOT supposed to be able to take out a huge ass 100K+ mass ship. so fuck all this \"oh its fighting gigantism\". if you want to get rid of a big ship, im sorry but you have to build a BIGGER ship.
     
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    I would agree that such a weapon should be expensive, and need to be crafted. It should also impart some form of drawback on the ship using it. If I had a fighter with a shield-regen-dampening missile system, what if it had very high power requirements? or prevented you from using shields yourself? or cut propulsion in half?

    someone previously mentioned bombers from EvE online. This would be a good example. They use torpedos / cruise missiles, which do TERRIBLE damage against anything small, making them quite weak against a frigate (fighter), but strong against a battleship / cap ship (large ship). They also have bombs, but they travel a set distance in a straight line, and then explode. takes planning and skill to put a bomb exactly where you want.

    shield dampening missile system -
    dumbfire : must manually aim
    short range : must get close, risk of turrets
    high power requirement : preventing stacking weapons of other types / their own shields
    move speed reduction : hard to get close range, and vulnerable to turrets
    crafted only, an expensive materials : need infrastructure to create
     
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    Engaging a Larger well designed ship with a small ship is laughable. \'Haha! I am doing damage to his shields, it will only take me SIX HOURS to fully break them!\' -.- Why people still assume small ships can crush large ships is beyond me. A smaller, dedicated gun ship can crack a larger ship\'s shields in a reasonable amount of time.. Just like before the update. The update only gave small ships a false hope that they could beat well designed larger ships.
     

    MrFURB

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    A good pilot in a small ship will be able to take on and kill a bad pilot in a ship an order of magnitude bigger than it. Starmade isn\'t a stat-based RPG, it\'s a freeform sandbox, meaning it has to reward players for being both efficient/skilled and for putting in a lot of time/effort. One leads to good piloting, which helps in combat a ton, the other leads to bigger ships, which also help a ton.

    I\'m sorry about your loss that you can\'t go build a 50k mass \'borg cube\' and run around ignoring every fight because of god-shields. It must be very painful. Oh, woe be the end of the days of single, turret-less capital ships. Now everyone over a certain mass is forced to have turrets that can shoot behind them or even bring friends!

    How else could we possibly slaughter the hordes of the god-fighters and their 50 mass doomships that... Don\'t have good weapons... Or shields... Or armor... Or turrets... Or drones...
     
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    \'Don\'t have good weapons... Or shields... Or armor... Or turrets... Or drones...\' Challenge accepted!
     
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    I really think that they need to unnerf the sheilds abit honestly I spent 5 days building a ship which has a ton of shields on pirate comes in a punches through them what really that is way underpowered in my honest opinion also I see what alot of you say it\'s a flag ship (or whatever you want to call it) it\'s suposed to be powerful.
     

    MrFURB

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    An NPC pirate actually punched through your shields? If you\'re in a \'large\' ship, that doesn\'t happen unless you\'re fighting for more than 5 minutes straight.

    How many shield blocks do you have? Over a thousand?
     
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    Obviously he thinks he can win by using a hull full of shields instead of trying to fight back with weapons.

    If you were killed by pirates in anything but a tiny transport / salvage vessel... uhh... you are doing something majorly wrong.
     
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    The problem I have with \"big ships are bad now\" complaints is that a -lot- of people saw big ships as being all the game could be about before the nerf. In fact, many still feels it\'s the call.

    Feel free to whine about \"but realism\"(despite the fact that the game does not fully apply it in the first place... else your ship would never slow down unless asked to when letting go of acceleration, due to the lack of friction in space). Or feel free to whine about \"but this is space fiction, who cares. Ships can carry shields and such\".

    However think of this aspect. Introducing drawbacks specific to big ships introduces one aspect critical to many games which, personally, I feel would incredibly benefit this game.

    It introduces ship roles.

    Let\'s run a small simulation of potential changes.

    Say that missiles are finally tweaked so they don\'t utterly annhilate ships when they break through shields. Say that they still deal very high damages to break through plating but in a much more localized area, in a fashion that only truly large missiles can really make explosions that are truly a large threat in and for themselves... and even there still be not as bad as they used to be.
    Say that armor is finally a fair bit thougher, so it becomes again another option than just purely trusting in shields... who with this change, who knows, might even let say 10 or 20% of weapons damages through. In fact, they might even become customizable so that a player could adjust shield strenght, shield regen and shield resistance(how much damage filter through a shield) for a greater variety of protection design.
    Now, let\'s imagine that mass also dragged down one\'s top speed(perhaps to a max of 40km/h for properly setup ships), but that weapon sizes greatly increased damages and range(the later perhaps even beyond current levels), though at the cost of a slower reload speed(to represent the larger size of ammunition or power charge needed to handle).
    Now increase ship max speed in a fashion that ships of a smaller mass(with proper dedicated engine blocks ratio to mass) could reach a speed of 65km/h(say 15 km/h over the current top speed, and still only 25 km/h than the max speed attainable by capital ships). Maybe do a similar thing for weapons so that they start with a good firing rate that lower only as size(and thus damage and range) are increased, though this could be slightly offset by current.
    And say, add a system of \"FTL generators blocks\" that allow ship to jump, but whose power consumption is such, or range is affected by mass in such a way that only capital ships can jump to appreciable(if not literally impressive) range with it.

    What you could see is a situation where defined possibilities for ship \"roles\" could exist. A bit like a real life navy(please don\'t bring up \"but this is space, we can move in the Z axis! It\'s not the same\" arguments. It\'s also a game and by default as such will never be like realistic spaceship simulation. So can the physics go).

    You could see smaller crafts taking the roles of \"strikecrafts\". Fighters and bombers, able to go easily on planet surfaces(as the mass system already favors) for approach or strafing and bombing runs on enemy instalations, or only to be used as shuttles of larger ships. They could still be able to deal decisive damages to capital ships(especially if dedicated weapons like shield busters or such are ever implemented) thanks to their maneuverability making them able to outmaneuver them and their smaller size making them easier to produces... however their damages due to the smaller area of effect of their weapons would be a more localized affair. They wouldn\'t \"win\" against a capital ship by blowing it in it\'s entirety, but crippling systems like exposed weapons or engines(the HMS Bismark in WW2 was made useless for all measures of the term by a single seaplane\'s torpedo blowing up it\'s rudder).
    They would, however, be fragile and still easily destroyed by weapon, especially since their smaller mass means they would have much less layer of armors to protect their essential systems.

    Now on the other extreme, capital ships would still carry layers upon layers of armor. Unless using concentrated strikes at specific components, especially against a larger ship, strikecraft would be able to do very little. Similarily, especially for a ship with enough dedicated anti-strike craft turrets and weapons positions(something which would encourage capital ship to be used more often as \"units\" crewed by multiple people rather than a lone person, like any extremely large vehicle or contraption, due to sheer complexity alone), a lone fighter rushing a capital ship should still be a very dangerous deal(unless said ship is one of the ultra-specialized \"ship-around-a-single-gun\" deal).
    Now only that, but their larger weapons would be able to deal extreme damages, at range much beyond that any strikecraft could attain with their own weapons(to use the example again, the Bismark was nonetheless rightfully feared for it\'s ability to strike down merchants ships not from hundred or thousand of feets away, but literally miles away from itself). A since the longer ranged weapons are also the bigger ones, these are the ones which would deal even more damage... making capital ships more or less like still extremely feared heavily armored snipers offset only by a relatively lower firing rate... that is, if they decide to specializes in this \"role\".

    For that\'s just two roles, two extremes. A relatively large frigates might decide to forego the use of large unwieldy guns in favor of arrays of small and medium guns built across it\'s hull and in turrets, to actually specializes in anti-strikecraft \"roles\" via the sheer amount of still-threatening(for small ships) projectiles they could throw... while another might decide to use most of it\'s mass for a single set of direct firing large anti-capital ship weapons, becoming more or less a \"ship around a gun\" at the cost of becoming extremely vulnerable to strikecrafts without escort.

    And add in, as mentionned earlier, an FTL system that can only be efficiently used by the larger ships and suddenly docking smaller ships to a bigger one makes even greater sense, as though fighters are the ones with the higher short-range mobility, in the truly long range it is they who now find themselves \"depending\" on the larger ships.

    And in my eyes, both creativity and gameplay would benefit from this, for it would encourages greater interactions between players of different size classes, and with a wider spread of possibilities going both ways, would even bolster player creativity in my eyes as it would leave even greater possibilities for players to come up with their own original design ideas and develop \"their\" own roles for a ship especially with ships designs and progression now then going in more than a single, \"build big\", way.

    This is just something that I would like many players to keep in mind. We all have our own visions of what the game should be, but we should recall it\'s exactly that... a game, and there\'s reasons many games have this kind of \"balancing\" so as to encourage a more diverse environment to try to bring in as diverse a set of player, since the more players means the greater a game\'s success is.

    The last thing we want it an environment where a \"build big\" elitism dominates, where the only players \"worthy\" of considerationz are those who had the time and patience to build ships that are miles longs.

    This is minecraft in space, folks. The last thing we want this to become is another World of Warcraft where the only players worth of notices are those who\'ve had time to grind to level 80(or whatever the level cap is nowdays) and speny months-long subscriptions and everyone else below this level might as well not exist for not having \"proven\" themselves yet worthy of \"fun\".

    Is that the experience we want? A game where we\'re only worthy of having an actual impact and \"fun\" only if we had time to grind to level 80 and raid dungeons dozens upon dozen of times for the best gear and where everybody else is nonconsequential until they\'ve grinded to that level... assuming they don\'t give up long before that from lack of patience.
     
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    I\'m sorry you can\'t get up and make pizza rolls in the middle of a battle and come back to an intact ship anymore. Bigger ships have to be conscious of the environment now too, and distracted piloting is punishable by death.
     
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    Is that the shield \"balance\" regardless of what side your on the fence or even if like me your sitting on the fence, was basically surgery with a sledgehammer it was a giant change out of the blue with what seemed like very little testing beforehand. It would be like if suddenly rather than being blue the sky was now orange, all the time, forever. a lot of people would be confused and probably outraged by that. its basically the same thing with the shields, a really big change that people are going to have to get used to, that happened with zero explanation.