Recognized Turrets system with Pictures - [ Poll]

[Lecic]

But turrets will be shielded yes? Please have them be shielded by the mothership's shield.
Because of this issue:
"Since the turret will at best, without being EXTREMELY LARGE compared to the host ship, have the shield of a heavy fighter or small corvette.
So if two big ships would fire missiles at eachother, the turrets would just start exploding as if the big ships were actually destroying some smaller ships out of the way before tackling the equally sized opponent."

I know there are people that say "but it we will lose the ability to destroy the turrets before destroying the main ship, since if the shields aer down you might as well take down the whole ship instead of picking off turrets. So disarming is not a viable tactic anymore."
Well, how about when a ship drops below 50% shield everything that is docked to it isn't shielded anymore, except it got its own shields. So you have to blow away 50% of a ship's shield, then you can destroy the turrets.

Also, I wouldn't know what there is to change about your suggestion except that we need a up and down angle restriction on the barrel.

I disagree. The ability to embed the turret base into the ship with this suggestion means that ship shields would no longer need to cover turrets.

 

[WaffulMann]

What if the ratio at which a turret loses mothership shield coverage is determined by the mass ratios? A ship based around a giant turret would quickly lose the mothership protection, while smaller turret would last longer. There also might need to be a penalty for having many, many small turrets.

A proposed formula: sharing applies if shields >= totalshields * turretmass * (1 + turrets/100)/shipmass

And add a balancing factor in there.

In my suggestion the turret does not, I repeat, NOT share shields with the mothership.

 

[Hanspeter Schnitzel]

I disagree. The ability to embed the turret base into the ship with this suggestion means that ship shields would no longer need to cover turrets.

A turret still wouldn't be able to even nearly get a strong enough shield to withstand capital fire. So turrets would always stay point defenses against smaller ships, but would never matter much in a capital fight as the AoE of the enemie's capital's missiles would just explode them.

 

[Jonj57]

A turret still wouldn't be able to even nearly get a strong enough shield to withstand capital fire.

Why should anything less than a capital or somewhat similar sized entity be able to withstand a weapon designed to destroy capital entities?

Turrets ARE designed to take on smaller things and just add extra damage when in an engagement (and take out incoming missiles if the new update goes through), not designed to brawl with the biggest guns in the game.

 

[NeonSturm]

Turrets ARE designed to take on smaller things and just add extra damage when in an engagement (and take out incoming missiles if the new update goes through), not designed to brawl with the biggest guns in the game.

A turret can cover at max a half sphere.

But if 2 turrets cover almost all your front and can fire to the sides, isn't that a little bit OP? I hope the turn rate nerf prevents that to be too useful.

 

[Jonj57]

A turret can cover at max a half sphere.

But if 2 turrets cover almost all your front and can fire to the sides, isn't that a little bit OP? I hope the turn rate nerf prevents that to be too useful.

Yeah, how they balance it is going to be tricky, so far people have guessed that missiles with have varying health amounts based on how "big" the missile is.

Missile does X damage = Missile can receive X hits

Nobody really knows though, Schema is going to need to put a lot of thought into how he wants to balance such a feature though.

 

[Keptick]

I just have a single concern with this turret mechanic: Would both segments share the same stats? For example the barrel section would mostly contain weapons, so would it share shields with the turret's body?

I don't think that I saw this adressed anywhere, if it was I missed it.

 

[ltmauve]

They better share stats. Otherwise all turrets will have their stats halved and then they'll be even more vulnerable.

 

[Hanspeter Schnitzel]

The barrel is not its own entity from what I got. The barrel are just blocks from the turret that are connected with the hinge block (Like AMCs are connected to a computer) which enables them to be aimed up and down. So they do indeed share everything with the turret.

Why should anything less than a capital or somewhat similar sized entity be able to withstand a weapon designed to destroy capital entities?

Turrets ARE designed to take on smaller things and just add extra damage when in an engagement (and take out incoming missiles if the new update goes through), not designed to brawl with the biggest guns in the game.

They should be able to withstand the fire at least because otherwise they would be gone in seconds and utterly useless, except you put extremely huge turrets on your ship, which looks extremely ugly. Also, it's stupid if capitals would mostly bombard eachother with their front facing weapons. It just looks awesome when ships have those small turrets for fighters and for CIWS while also having bigger turrets for firing at other capitals.

 

[Jonj57]

They should be able to withstand the fire at least because otherwise they would be gone in seconds and utterly useless, except you put extremely huge turrets on your ship, which looks extremely ugly. Also, it's stupid if capitals would mostly bombard eachother with their front facing weapons. It just looks awesome when ships have those small turrets for fighters and for CIWS while also having bigger turrets for firing at other capitals.

If they can withstand capital fire then anything less than a ship with anti-capital guns once again have 0 purpose in a battle. You're supposed to put gameplay before aesthetics when it comes to balance imo.

 

[Hanspeter Schnitzel]

They can withstand about as much fire as their host ship. Since not their own shield is used, but their host ship's. I also suggested that the turrets would lose their host ship's shield after the shot ship's shielding has dropped below a certain %. So the turrets can still be shot off.

And if the only use small ships have right now is to pop turrets then they are useless already. Because woohoo you can take off the capitals turrets and then what? If those ships can only do that, then they are useless already because you might aswell just pop the turrets with your own capital, which goes way faster than destroying them with a smaller ship as it is right now anyhow.

 

[Lecic]

They can withstand about as much fire as their host ship. Since not their own shield is used, but their host ship's. I also suggested that the turrets would lose their host ship's shield after the shot ship's shielding has dropped below a certain %. So the turrets can still be shot off.

And if the only use small ships have right now is to pop turrets then they are useless already. Because woohoo you can take off the capitals turrets and then what? If those ships can only do that, then they are useless already because you might aswell just pop the turrets with your own capital, which goes way faster than destroying them with a smaller ship as it is right now anyhow.

A fighter is less of a big deal to lose than a capital. It's also easier to pilot a fighter to take out turrets.

 

[Hanspeter Schnitzel]

The thing is that you will lose the fighter easily to turrets, while you are unlikely to ever lose a capital to turrets because one or two capital-missiles will destroy any turret within a narrow AoE, making the capital even more effective at the job as he'll get out alive and blow up more in a shorter amount of time. Of course it costs much, but at least you won't have to pay for it again and if you already have a capital you don't need to build any fighters to fight along it.

 

[Dman1791]

I would say that turrets should share about 10% of the main ship's shields, and once 10% of the shields are down the turret draws from its own reserve. This would add extra survivability while retaining the ability of SPECIALIZED craft to engage them in sufficient numbers.

 

[WaffulMann]

I would say that turrets should share about 10% of the main ship's shields, and once 10% of the shields are down the turret draws from its own reserve. This would add extra survivability while retaining the ability of SPECIALIZED craft to engage them in sufficient numbers.

Turrets sharing shields is for another suggestion. My suggestion keeps it simple. 10% shields may not seem like a lot but when you have a 3-block turret on a giant supercapital then that's just not fun.
:3

 

[Dman1791]

Turrets sharing shields is for another suggestion. My suggestion keeps it simple. 10% shields may not seem like a lot but when you have a 3-block turret on a giant supercapital then that's just not fun.
:3

I see what you mean. Perhaps a scaling value? 0.5% shield bonus per 5 mass, starting at 10 mass, stopping at 10% (110 mass)? This would allow only large turrets to have good extra protection and would prevent mini turrets of only weapons from getting benefit. Perhaps they would also require at least 5 shield capacitors and 5 shield rechargers before gaining any extra to completely prevent unprotected turrets from extra shielding. Plus, we should really try to get an effective, complete turret system in here, not just the construction, that would make it more likely for the devs to notice since it will have already been put to the test in a theoretical sense.

 

[Hanspeter Schnitzel]

A 3 block turret isn't going to do crap though. And people would automatically make way bigger turrets if your suggestion is taken into the game, because then people would sink their turrets' main body into the hull in order to give it powerful weapons whilst looking good.

 

[ltmauve]

We want turrets to be resistant to fire from the ships of the same size as the mothership, right? This means that a wing whose job it is to clear off the turrets is a viable role, but it will probably have to be assisted by a larger ship. We also want larger turrets to gain less of this bonus, since they have more shields. If there's any more room in projectile data, perhaps they could store the mass of the ship or the weapon system block count.

So: Protection ratio = Mass of enemy ship|weapon blocks * parent shields * balancing factor * turret shields / (parent mass * turret mass * parent max shields * turret max shield) (This is how much damage the parent will absorb from a turret getting hit. The parent will not take any more damage than was dealt, even if the ratio was over one.

 

[Dman1791]

We want turrets to be resistant to fire from the ships of the same size as the mothership, right? This means that a wing whose job it is to clear off the turrets is a viable role, but it will probably have to be assisted by a larger ship. We also want larger turrets to gain less of this bonus, since they have more shields. If there's any more room in projectile data, perhaps they could store the mass of the ship or the weapon system block count.

So: Protection ratio = Mass of enemy ship|weapon blocks * parent shields * balancing factor * turret shields / (parent mass * turret mass * parent max shields * turret max shield) (This is how much damage the parent will absorb from a turret getting hit. The parent will not take any more damage than was dealt, even if the ratio was over one.

Definitely a lot better than my idea, but perhaps add a cap of ~50%, to prevent super turrets or invincible ones.

 

[ltmauve]

to prevent super turrets or invincible ones.

Except if we cap that, then we loose the point of it, which is that a capital can't just nuke all the turrets off, they need to blow up the mothership first. No turret will be invicible, especially against a ship close to its size, since it won't be fully protected by the mothership's shields. In addition, once the mothership shields are down, the turret is vulnerable.