Recognized Turrets system with Pictures - [ Poll]

[Hanspeter Schnitzel]

Isn't the damage itself already an indicator for the weapon blocks due to the linear damage scaling?
Also I like that idea of yours, too! Even though it might seem funky "realism" wise since then a group of smaller ships suddenly has it easier to blow up turrets than the big ships.. (If I got it right) But that's alright as long as it keeps a good balance. ^^

 

[Keptick]

except you put extremely huge turrets on your ship, which looks extremely ugly.

I completely disagree with that notion. Gigantic turrets can look great when designed to blend/fit into/with the main ship.

 

[Dman1791]

Except if we cap that, then we loose the point of it, which is that a capital can't just nuke all the turrets off, they need to blow up the mothership first. No turret will be invicible, especially against a ship close to its size, since it won't be fully protected by the mothership's shields. In addition, once the mothership shields are down, the turret is vulnerable.

We need a balance, though. Turrets SHOULD be a good amount more vulnerable than the ship, because otherwise we are promoting gigantism, and making small ships even more useless. There needs to be a cap that is feasible for a bunch of bombers to be able to take out turrets, but not so low that turrets can be blown off with impunity.

 

[ltmauve]

No the point is that if you try to nuke off turrets with your capital, they get protected by the mothership shields, but a bomber assault is fastest way to get them down, because otherwise to nuke them with you capital you need to take down the mothership shields.

 

[WaffulMann]

too complicated, not fit for my suggestion :3 I don't like complicated things.
Could make for a nice thread, though, but there are already tons of them, just revive one.

 

[Lenier]

Has anybody suggested that turrets share host power but not shields? If the shield block/mass ratio is set right, it should be possible to put a few shield blocks on turrets in order to shield them well. Also this way the turret guns would suck power directly from the main ship. bigger guns=more constant drain. The barrels of the turrets are only the weapon blocks, but they would be concealed inside the turret housing mostly. This gives ship builders two choices: put shields on barrels, or house barrels securely. Since smaller ships are capable of shooting at smaller targets easier, it makes small ships able to weaken/take out turrets more easily. Does this solve this issue?

 

[Lecic]

Has anybody suggested that turrets share host power but not shields? If the shield block/mass ratio is set right, it should be possible to put a few shield blocks on turrets in order to shield them well. Also this way the turret guns would suck power directly from the main ship. bigger guns=more constant drain. The barrels of the turrets are only the weapon blocks, but they would be concealed inside the turret housing mostly. This gives ship builders two choices: put shields on barrels, or house barrels securely. Since smaller ships are capable of shooting at smaller targets easier, it makes small ships able to weaken/take out turrets more easily. Does this solve this issue?

That's already how it works, in game, with turrets draining power from the main ship. A lot of people make their turrets self sufficient to offset the drain on the main ship, though.

Are you suggesting that the barrel and base turrets wouldn't share shields? Because they do in this suggestion.

 

[ltmauve]

Has anybody suggested that turrets share host power but not shields? If the shield block/mass ratio is set right, it should be possible to put a few shield blocks on turrets in order to shield them well. Also this way the turret guns would suck power directly from the main ship. bigger guns=more constant drain. The barrels of the turrets are only the weapon blocks, but they would be concealed inside the turret housing mostly. This gives ship builders two choices: put shields on barrels, or house barrels securely. Since smaller ships are capable of shooting at smaller targets easier, it makes small ships able to weaken/take out turrets more easily. Does this solve this issue?

No it doesn't, because a) hitting a small target on a large ship is equally regardless of the size of the ship. Is aiming using a large weapon harder than using a small gun? No. and b) A larger ship is more likely to have more outputs on a weapon system, increasing the chance of hitting a turret, and also more likely to have missile-pulse weapons, which have a ridiculous radius. In other words, it is actually easier to hit any with a titan. That's what the shield-sharing is about. It's to make it harder for larger ships to destroy turrets

 

[Lecic]

No it doesn't, because a) hitting a small target on a large ship is equally regardless of the size of the ship. Is aiming using a large weapon harder than using a small gun? No. and b) A larger ship is more likely to have more outputs on a weapon system, increasing the chance of hitting a turret, and also more likely to have missile-pulse weapons, which have a ridiculous radius. In other words, it is actually easier to hit any with a titan. That's what the shield-sharing is about. It's to make it harder for larger ships to destroy turrets

What if missiles only damaged the object they hit? This would also fix missiles killing players and NPCs inside of ships through a heavily shielded wall.

 

[Hanspeter Schnitzel]

That would be kinda odd, wouldn't it? Since that's one of the benefits of AoE, being able to damage multiple objects at once. That causes people to not build turrets too close to eachother right now, which might change with shielding though. Explosions in the game should indeed check though if they could even hit the player or NPC, like, check if there is nothing in the way between itself and the player.#

Also, one of the reasons we are discussing turret stuff in general here is that no one has anything to say about the barrel-with-hinge-block suggestion and all that, because most people (according the poll) find that this is how it should be and it already was a mostly perfect suggestion that people then made better with comments and stuff. So yeah, most of the community basically wants it and there is not much more to say. Even issues like clipping and such have been solved by explaining that the moving blocks all come from the original rigid turret etc etc. So the people writting about shielding etc just bump this thread more so it gains attention. :P

 

[NeonSturm]

What if missiles only damaged the object they hit? This would also fix missiles killing players and NPCs inside of ships through a heavily shielded wall.

That would be kinda odd, wouldn't it?

IRL damage = force / time of impact
IRL force = mass * speed^2
IRL explosion-force multiplier = distance^0.5

IRL Missiles do a lot less damage in vaccum and a lot more under-water (compared to mid-air).
IRL AOE would affect only the hit object and objects "which are not in the shadow" of the hit object.

IRL Materials have a resistance which is subtracted from damage.
because of explosion-force multiplier : IRL effective damage-resistance = resistance*standartDistance^2.

 

[Lecic]

I have an idea for how to fix missiles. Instead of an AOE of damage, make the explosion throw out lots of invisible projectiles. This makes it so you can't kill turrets on the opposite side of a ship, or players through walls.

This might cause lag, though.

 

[Dman1791]

I have an idea for how to fix missiles. Instead of an AOE of damage, make the explosion throw out lots of invisible projectiles. This makes it so you can't kill turrets on the opposite side of a ship, or players through walls.

This might cause lag, though.

I think you're on to something, but that's for another thread, as it has nothing to do with turret mechanics. I think you should go make a seperate thread or ressurect one about it.

 

[Malacodor]

IRL explosion-force multiplier = distance^0.5

IRL Missiles do a lot less damage in vaccum and a lot more under-water (compared to mid-air).

Not true in general. Let's look at how fragmentation grenades work: The initial explosion breaks up the outer casing and accelerates the fragments. These fragments then do the main damage, not the explosion's blast wave. In vaccum these fragments aren't slowed down by friction. Many bomb and missile types use similar principles.

Furthermore "IRL explosion-force multiplier = distance^0.5" is only true in a missile's rest frame, because more fragments fly towards the target than in the opposite direction, since the speed of the missile is added to them.

 

[BeefBacon]

I have an idea for how to fix missiles. Instead of an AOE of damage, make the explosion throw out lots of invisible projectiles. This makes it so you can't kill turrets on the opposite side of a ship, or players through walls.

This might cause lag, though.

News post says that AOE damage no longer ignores obstacles. Cool idea, though. I'd actually like to see a missile type that does something similar, like it explodes before it hits the target, firing projectiles in all directions (or a small cone). Maybe it fires its payload even if destroyed, making it an effective counter to anti-missile flak.

I'd like to see turrets take a percentage of mothership shields, along with a soft cap. Shield on the turret act as normal, they're just augmented by the shields provided by the ship it's docked to.

 

[NeonSturm]

Not true in general. Let's look at how fragmentation grenades work: The initial explosion breaks up the outer casing and accelerates the fragments. These fragments then do the main damage, not the explosion's blast wave. In vaccum these fragments aren't slowed down by friction. Many bomb and missile types use similar principles.

Furthermore "IRL explosion-force multiplier = distance^0.5" is only true in a missile's rest frame, because more fragments fly towards the target than in the opposite direction, since the speed of the missile is added to them.

That would mean we could make missiles "one-time shotguns on impact".

No more AOE through objects :D

 

[Lecic]

News post says that AOE damage no longer ignores obstacles. Cool idea, though. I'd actually like to see a missile type that does something similar, like it explodes before it hits the target, firing projectiles in all directions (or a small cone). Maybe it fires its payload even if destroyed, making it an effective counter to anti-missile flak.

I'd like to see turrets take a percentage of mothership shields, along with a soft cap. Shield on the turret act as normal, they're just augmented by the shields provided by the ship it's docked to.

Yeah, I'm aware. I made that post before the news post was posted.

That would be a cool missile type.

 

[CodeBlack]

Hell, yes!
i always hate it when my whole turret turns upwards, looking stupid this way....it would be so cool if just the barrels rotate upwards :O
I LOVE this idea!

 

[Inspired2150]

Signed, liked, subscribed, followed, donated blood and sacrificed virgins to.
Let's hope it happens.

 

[Malacodor]

This thread deserves an official answer.