StarMade v0.201.126 - Weapon Update

[Ckeeze]

Never told it was a hatepost. Actually my post wasn't (or didn't feel) harsh. Not every "no" means "booo a hateboy".
I agree it was a bit too much to compare to the other troll, but it show you how much serious your post was for me.

And yes it is a rant. You basically jump here, throw facts, use a complaining-like speech, assume devs are lying and other things of the same genre. And your damn caps which add nothing. Just underline facts, with bold and another color if you want. Plus I don't care about your last list. I know the game is still currently bugged. I don't like the recoil. But I don't complain, I expose a PoV.

Now that it's more clear. How the fck did this turret ended there ? '-'

I'm sorry if i was harsher than i should have been, I was REAAALY frustrated by the fact that the game have ruined a lot of my work lately, (Stuff being unexpectedly Underpowered, Bugs fucking up my builds etc...), I don't underline becouse I'm lasy and CAPS LOCK is faster...
Then again if no one complains about an issue how could anyone tell what to fix or what solutions to come up with?
And my list aren't even about bugs it's just there are OBVIUS balance problems anyone could have forseen, like the missiles or the recoil being to much, yes MY issue in the picture can be classified as a bug but even that could have been avoided if recoil wasn't stupidly pushed into the game without any tought of consequences...

Now onto the Turret:
The Turret ended up there becouse the recoil aplied MORE force to the turret (both the ship and the turret started rotating but the turret was thrown back waaay more) AND somehow the game forgot that it shouldn't move the turret in non existent axises... AND there was some sort of "oooh let's forget that the blocks are solid for a second" bug. basicly 3 issues at once...

Oh and i forgot to screenshot it but you guys probably can't even comprehend the craziness that ensued after i pressed undock out of desparation, The game was on the verge of crashing, let's just say that, and it was just ONE 300 ton turret on a 3000 ton ship...

 

[Edymnion]

I'm sorry if i was harsher than i should have been, I was REAAALY frustrated by the fact that the game have ruined a lot of my work lately, (Stuff being unexpectedly Underpowered, Bugs fucking up my builds etc...)

Then work on something else for a while. I personally have multiple projects in game going on at any given time. A station, a cruisin' ship (not a cruiser, just a cool looking ship for flying around in) hull, a warship, logic demos, etc.

When something comes up that screws up what I'm working on in one thing, I just move to the next one and work on that until it gets straightened out.

Until we officially go beta, we're still in an alpha. Alpha means "its buggy as hell". Don't let yourself get married to any one thing, or this is exactly what will happen.

Then again if no one complains about an issue how could anyone tell what to fix or what solutions to come up with?

There is a difference between reporting a bug, and complaining about it.

Reporting is "Hey, this looks wrong. I did A, and I expected to get B, but instead C happened."
Complaining is "Hey, you screwed up, you butts! Any idiot can see if I do A, then B should happen, but these idiots made C happen instead!"

A good way to watch so you can catch yourself? If you are trying to assign BLAME, then you're just complaining. If you are trying to simply show something weird is happening, then you're reporting.

And my list aren't even about bugs it's just there are OBVIUS balance problems anyone could have forseen, like the missiles or the recoil being to much, yes MY issue in the picture can be classified as a bug but even that could have been avoided if recoil wasn't stupidly pushed into the game without any tought of consequences...

See, here you're trying to blame things on devs. "Obvious balance problems", "stupidly pushed into the game without any thought", these are confrontational and you're trying to tear down instead of build up.

If you mean it to or not, the tone you're using is "I'm smarter than everybody else because I can see these problems nobody else can, not even the trained professionals who built it!", and that is NEVER a good way to frame ANY issue you're having.

What might seem "obvious" to an outsider is often times a tangled MESS to an insider where tiny changes in one area are rippling through to other areas in ways they didn't expect.

 

[Ckeeze]

Then work on something else for a while. I personally have multiple projects in game going on at any given time. A station, a cruisin' ship (not a cruiser, just a cool looking ship for flying around in) hull, a warship, logic demos, etc.

When something comes up that screws up what I'm working on in one thing, I just move to the next one and work on that until it gets straightened out.

Until we officially go beta, we're still in an alpha. Alpha means "its buggy as hell". Don't let yourself get married to any one thing, or this is exactly what will happen.
There is a difference between reporting a bug, and complaining about it.

Reporting is "Hey, this looks wrong. I did A, and I expected to get B, but instead C happened."
Complaining is "Hey, you screwed up, you butts! Any idiot can see if I do A, then B should happen, but these idiots made C happen instead!"

A good way to watch so you can catch yourself? If you are trying to assign BLAME, then you're just complaining. If you are trying to simply show something weird is happening, then you're reporting.
See, here you're trying to blame things on devs. "Obvious balance problems", "stupidly pushed into the game without any thought", these are confrontational and you're trying to tear down instead of build up.

If you mean it to or not, the tone you're using is "I'm smarter than everybody else because I can see these problems nobody else can, not even the trained professionals who built it!", and that is NEVER a good way to frame ANY issue you're having.

What might seem "obvious" to an outsider is often times a tangled MESS to an insider where tiny changes in one area are rippling through to other areas in ways they didn't expect.

I'm not pulling out the "Obvius balance problems" out my ass thinking I'm smart, i observe the entire forum and see many people with the same problem before I go: "Oh this thing is WAAAAY TOO OP!"
And while there is always wiggle room for the devs thinking differently than others, but there are certain things that are obviusly bad, unballanced or whatever No matter how you aproach it, and those stuff are either fixed in other games reaaaaly quickly (with the devs going like: Oh shit we didn't thinked this trough!) or they don't happen at all, when only a tiny amount of people thinking something it's OP and even they forget it after a while, it's mostly balanced, when half of them are complaining it's unballanced, when everyone IMMIDEATLY sees the obvius problem it's probably soo big it could have been avoided by common sence alltogether (or you know it's a bug causing the inbalance)...

 

[Edymnion]

I'm not pulling out the "Obvius balance problems" out my ass thinking I'm smart, i observe the entire forum and see many people with the same problem before I go: "Oh this thing is WAAAAY TOO OP!"

You asked "How do they know if we don't complain about it?" and then follow up with "I saw where many other people had brought this up too". Then clearly they know its an issue because its been brought up many times already.

So, you acknowledge that you saw where other people had brought it up, and still felt the need to bring it up again in an insulting, combative manner? That is why people called you out, because you are intentionally trying to pick a fight. You could have simply said "Yeah, this is a problem for me too" and left it at that.

those stuff are either fixed in other games reaaaaly quickly

And those other games have design teams with dozens of people on them with dedicated roles so that if something comes up, there are people who's only job it is is to fix the thing.

Starmade doesn't have that. The full time active dev team here is what currently, 2 people? Stuff here goes more slowly.

 

[NTIMESc]

i observe the entire forum and see many people with the same problem before I go: "Oh this thing is WAAAAY TOO OP!"

If you've already observed everyone else report the issue, then a simple "Like" on one of those other posts, or quoting a part you want to elaborate on would be helpful. As an example:

The recoil applied to the ship and to the turret is WILDLY different

I noticed this too.

Just a case of "docked entities need to transfer recoil to base entity instead of applying it to themselves" for a fix, most likely.

I like this solution.

 

[Alphajim]

Stop thinking devs know everything in there. I'm pretty sure schema don't read forums that often. Should I recall you that they're still making fixes and balance updates ? There's a big one coming iirc. ^^

And please, don't do like these guys who think comparing with other games is a proof of intelligence... It's actually not. Different team, different forums / report system, different way to work. Especially when you see what SE is actually : still bugged and laggy.

 

[Edymnion]

If you've already observed everyone else report the issue, then a simple "Like" on one of those other posts, or quoting a part you want to elaborate on would be helpful.

Or, you can also give feedback on how you'd like to see it changed to bring it better in line with what you'd expect.

Like earlier we were saying that it felt like missiles had too many HP, and we were actively throwing around ideas on ways to adjust the formula so that we could keep PDTs small and effective, while still making it harder to shoot down larger missiles. The base idea of bigger missile = more HP is serviceable, it just got tweaked way too high out of the gate.

By giving constructive feedback on "Here's where I think it went wrong, here's the general idea of how I think it could be done differently" not only gets your point across, it opens the discussion up to where USEFUL feedback on expectations and desires can come out.

 

[Ratchet Hundreda]

I actually wanted to test out the new weapons systems today but before that wanted to see what's up on the forums...

To summarize:

• Cannons are useless and can potentially crash the game if used as turrets.
  
• Missiles are way too overpowered.
  
• The new effect systems are basically just placeholders or if they are not nobody knows what they actually do yet.

After a year of development of the new system a whole month of testing on prerelease, this is what we end up with?
I don't care what anybody sais this is just objectively sad... I guess time for another month of debugging...

I guess the problem is that my idea of a "stable release" is much different...

Anybody who even thinks to react with "it's an alpha" to this comment consider yourself congratulated.

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

I actually wanted to test out the new weapons systems today but before that wanted to see what's up on the forums...

To summarize:

• Cannons are useless and can potentially crash the game if used as turrets.
  
• Missiles are way too overpowered.
  
• The new effect systems are basically just placeholders or if they are not nobody knows what they actually do yet.

After a year of development of the new system a whole month of testing on prerelease, this is what we end up with?
I don't care what anybody sais this is just objectively sad... I guess time for another month of debugging...

I guess the problem is that my idea of a "stable release" is much different...

Anybody who even thinks to react with "it's an alpha" to this comment consider yourself congratulated.

Recoil view movement is ass. Applying force to shooter and shootee is all that should happen, and it should just impart a torque based on how off it is from the center of mass. This arbitrary changing of the cannon ship's viewpoint upwards is a source of extra lag problems that feels annoying to use.
Unfortunately, I think it was so ass that it made all feedback on it become "remove all recoil", which Schine interpreted to mean "reduce recoil a little", since they get married to their bad ideas.

Missiles are overpowered? This is news to me, from what I've seen and heard, homing missiles virtually never hit in a real combat scenario. Not sure about swarm missiles, though, they certainly didn't seem OP last time I tested.

 

[kikaha]

Correct me if i'm wrong but for the shield integrity i believe (not in game right now) that only the regen needs to be integrity safe (if that mean anythung :P ) The shield capacity block can be laid anywhere...

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

Correct me if i'm wrong but for the shield integrity i believe (not in game right now) that only the regen needs to be integrity safe (if that mean anythung :P ) The shield capacity block can be laid anywhere...

Incorrect, I was having ships fully self-destruct yesterday due to capacity blocks with negative integrity after fiddling with an established design with all the rechargers in one solid group.

 

[therimmer96]

You reduced the effect on thruster plumes.

This is the single worst decision you've ever made, and it should be rectified immediately.

 

[MrGrey1]

Correct me if i'm wrong but for the shield integrity i believe (not in game right now) that only the regen needs to be integrity safe (if that mean anythung :P ) The shield capacity block can be laid anywhere...

Shield integrity is the lowest integrity value of any of the shield blocks in the group, both rechargers and capacitors included.

 

[Spartan-228]

Okay, i was generally against recoil from the getgo but this is NUTTS!
No i'm not talking about recoil sending your ship flying that's just mildly frustrating, Cannon turrets can't be even used now LOOK AT THIS!
View attachment 49621
EVERY TIME I SHOOT IT FUCKS UP THE TURRET! The recoil applied to the ship and to the turret is WILDLY different and yes, that is up there still considered docked by the game and if i dare to undock it hell will brake lose!

Oh and the missile hp curve? the fact that cannons just simply won't get with like you told us, (like you guys just straight up lied to us) I tried 20*20*20 cannon and it still shoots a tiny pea particle and still does a needle overpenetrating damage just like a 2000*1*1 cannon do...
"Cannons are penetrating type of weapon" no they are useless type of weapon! beams just melt's you even at max range missiles now can't be intercepted and do more damage than ever before, meanwhile cannons are weak and buggy as fuck! and no weapon width AT ALL

I kinda get it why people freaked out about power update, it's like you guys have the WORST IDEAS POSSIBLE!
Yeah let's give nuke sized missiles 20k hp,
yeah let's lie about features, (cannon width)
yeah let's push a buggy gimmiky feature no one asked for despite the community not wanting it, oh wait that's not enough! let's make it ridicoulusly strong so ships get flinged to nowhere and turrets get bugged out making everything unusable!

I use turrets A LOT and I have not had this happen. Every thing I have seen with turrets and recoil has been with the barrels bouncing up, and maybe the ship moves a little, but never seen the mount move. I might guess that it is because you used it on what looks like a very light ship, not that it shouldn't still be fixed. Obviously it shouldn't do that, but I have seen turrets get stuck like that in the old build without recoil, I just reset my turrets and it was fixed. So I am not sure recoil is the only culprit here.

 

[kikaha]

Incorrect, I was having ships fully self-destruct yesterday due to capacity blocks with negative integrity after fiddling with an established design with all the rechargers in one solid group.

Shield integrity is the lowest integrity value of any of the shield blocks in the group, both rechargers and capacitors included.

I stand corrected :P

 

[Ckeeze]

You asked "How do they know if we don't complain about it?" and then follow up with "I saw where many other people had brought this up too". Then clearly they know its an issue because its been brought up many times already.

So, you acknowledge that you saw where other people had brought it up, and still felt the need to bring it up again in an insulting, combative manner? That is why people called you out, because you are intentionally trying to pick a fight. You could have simply said "Yeah, this is a problem for me too" and left it at that.
And those other games have design teams with dozens of people on them with dedicated roles so that if something comes up, there are people who's only job it is is to fix the thing.

Starmade doesn't have that. The full time active dev team here is what currently, 2 people? Stuff here goes more slowly.

Can you stop nitpicking my statements??? I was referring to the missiles with observing, and my "special" Turret to "How do they know if we don't complain about it?". But nooo You continue to disregard everything I say, oh and forget that I already apolgiesed for my offensive manner... BUT NOOO LET'S KEEP PICKING ON ME BECOUSE I'M AN ASSHOLE!!!
[doublepost=1531907701,1531906894][/doublepost]I use a bit of Irony, Sarcasm and Hubris and everyone acts like I threatened Schema's fuckin' daughter with rape. Even after my aplogy for going "a bit too far" (in your opinion)... but noo let's keep nitpicking my sentences and turning my own words against me, and still continue to call me out!
There is a second type of toxicity wich isn't as obvius and the Moderators can't even justify removing it sadly, I'm talking about you guys! Whenever I call out the devs in mildly insulting sarcastic manner for Bugs or whatever on EVERY OTHER FORUM I always recieve noddings, hahas, and lols, becouse the fans aren't overportective cucks and can handle humour.
Here I dare to say the devs have recently bad ideas (With examples) and everyone is trying to cut my throat we elaborate essays, and passive agressive behaviour for like 2 entire pages, (even after I aplogiesed).... Yeah I'm never gonna Write again, becouse clearly a my cinical smartass personality can't be tolerated here. Now I don't want to see any more notification about being quoted EVER AGIAN!
SO FUCK OFF!

 

[GnomeKing]

This arbitrary changing of the cannon ship's viewpoint upwards is a source of extra lag problems that feels annoying to use.

very much agree -

(whats that German word for 'falling-out-between-the-cheeks-and-then-to-accidentally-flushing-myself-down-the-bowl' ?)

 

[Alphajim]

Can you stop nitpicking my statements??? I was referring to the missiles with observing, and my "special" Turret to "How do they know if we don't complain about it?". But nooo You continue to disregard everything I say, oh and forget that I already apolgiesed for my offensive manner... BUT NOOO LET'S KEEP PICKING ON ME BECOUSE I'M AN ASSHOLE!!!
[doublepost=1531907701,1531906894][/doublepost]I use a bit of Irony, Sarcasm and Hubris and everyone acts like I threatened Schema's fuckin' daughter with rape. Even after my aplogy for going "a bit too far" (in your opinion)... but noo let's keep nitpicking my sentences and turning my own words against me, and still continue to call me out!
There is a second type of toxicity wich isn't as obvius and the Moderators can't even justify removing it sadly, I'm talking about you guys! Whenever I call out the devs in mildly insulting sarcastic manner for Bugs or whatever on EVERY OTHER FORUM I always recieve noddings, hahas, and lols, becouse the fans aren't overportective cucks and can handle humour.
Here I dare to say the devs have recently bad ideas (With examples) and everyone is trying to cut my throat we elaborate essays, and passive agressive behaviour for like 2 entire pages, (even after I aplogiesed).... Yeah I'm never gonna Write again, becouse clearly a my cinical smartass personality can't be tolerated here. Now I don't want to see any more notification about being quoted EVER AGIAN!
SO FUCK OFF!

Not again...

Another "y'all fanboys threatening me, na !" dude.

 

[Edymnion]

I guess the problem is that my idea of a "stable release" is much different...

You do seem to have an incorrect idea of what "stable release" means.

Stable does not mean its perfect, it doesn't mean bug-free, it just means it doesn't crash.

That is literally all "stable" means, it doesn't randomly crash.
[doublepost=1531915342,1531914570][/doublepost]

Whenever I call out the devs in mildly insulting sarcastic manner for Bugs or whatever on EVERY OTHER FORUM I always recieve noddings, hahas, and lols, becouse the fans aren't overportective cucks and can handle humour.

The reason why this happens has been explained to you several times. As long as you keep using hyperbole, insults, and attacks, people will keep calling you out for it.

The tolerance for that is pretty much at zero after it got so completely out of control last time.

Your feedback and opinions are welcome, if you can be polite and respectful about how you present them. Even "mildly insulting sarcasm" just isn't going to fly anymore, because it never stays mildly insulting for long.

 

[Captain Fortius]

I tried 20*20*20 cannon and it still shoots a tiny pea particle and still does a needle overpenetrating damage just like a 2000*1*1 cannon do...

This. I wrote about this while the update was still in dev phase, and a second time after it hit release without anybody bothering to fix it. It was ridiculious six years ago, and after the feature is finally - but falsely- proclaimed to be added to the game it is twice as bad.

Does nobody read or care about these reports? How is it even possible to release anything like that? I only had a very limited experience with coding, but every time I made a change to something, I launched the application and tested if that new line of code is really making anything happen. Schema even has testers to do it FOR him. And a bunch of players who are more thorough and honest about this kind of stuff than his inner circle would ever care to be.

(I know, the forum which would be the most convenient, simplest, most straightforward platform of communication is also the least frequented by the actual staff, by the grace of their alien logic, or lack thereof, but still...)

I constantly run into issues in a full fledged "STABLE" update

You do seem to have an incorrect idea of what "stable release" means.

Stable does not mean its perfect, it doesn't mean bug-free, it just means it doesn't crash.

When I hear stable, I think about something that has all of it's currently available content properly functioning.
Or a house for horses.
Simply "not crashing for no reason" is just the base minimum that goes without saying.
It has been discussed many times; Open-alpha indie titles like this have ponderously extended developement times and very real chances of never actually being finished, thus the "chill, it's not finished yet" argument does not stand, and every release patch needs to be PLAYABLE, because the next one might only come months later, or never.

Any patch with wonky, crazy new features that haven't been worked out properly should fall under the "dev" category; basically meaning the last stable patch was somewhere in 0.19x
I'm not even asking anyone to work harder, just to re-label the end results.

I played a lot of Minecraft in it's golden years, and from what I remember that game abided by this simple logic well enough.
Though by no means would I claim it was totally bug-free, at the very least you could tell "patch A has no sheep" and "Patch B has sheep", but never "Patches B01-B99 has sheep but they don't sheep properly"