MicroMade - Modded StarMade

[Asvarduil]

MicroMade - StarMade Like You've Never Played It
GitHub Source for the Mod Backend is here
A Modded Server Brought to you by Asvarduil, and Esthar Fleet Systems

Project Status: Iteration 1 / Core Systems Development

Spoiler: Weekly Progress

Week 1 Progress - 17 September 2017
Week 2 Progress - 24 September 2017
Week 3 Progress - 1 October 2017
Week 4 Progress - 8 October 2017
Week 5 Progress - 15 October 2017
Week 6 Progress - 22 October 2017
Week 7 (Out Sick) - 29 October 2017
Week 8 Progress - 5 November 2017
Week 9 Progress - 12 November 2017
Week 10 Progress - 19 November 2017
Week 11 Progress - 26 November 2017

MicroMade is a modded StarMade server system being developed to address issues I and many other gamers have encountered with game balance. Instead of complaining to Schine and the community more than I already have, I instead am putting my money where my mouth is, and am going to create a server with some very unique rules and challenges.

This server stands on the shoulders of other's work:

Spoiler: Works this server is based on

StarMade
schema's space game is where this all starts, of course! There's great ideas in this game, and awesome building mechanics - where this game falls apart in its vanilla incarnation is due to a lack of focus on the 'game' itself, and the essential experience. MicroMade will correct these issues by deviating from the Vanilla game when necessary. Addtionally, the developer will periodically refine the server based on both player feedback (subjective experience) as well as empirical evidence (data collected by the custom server framework.) It's my sincere hope that this server provides a model of ways to improve the Vanilla game, and inspires Schema to add small, easily-implementable features to make the game more interesting, more modder-friendly, and all around better.

Light vs. Dark
This server had a built-in faction system where you either join the Light or Dark sides. A redux has been established; I haven't played on it yet. On this server, they give you a custom miner recipe right away. The joining of a preset faction, as well being given an intact starter ship are things I think are beneficial to how StarMade works.

MiniMade
Now defunct, MiniMade was the server that started it all for me. This server instituted a 3000 mass limit on ships, and a slightly larger limit on Stations. There were custom factions, and some hilarious outtakes that came with that. The server shut down due to lack of traffic. While MiniMade may be offline now, its legacy will live on in MicroMade. Olxinos, thank you for the great experience, and I hope we see you when MicroMade comes online!

Shadow
Shadow is a server-side mod based on Linux BASH shell scripts, that allows extension within certain limits, by scraping the server output log, and using the Linux screen command to send sequences of built-in commands to the game. I will likely wind up running a very customized version of Shadow that suits my purposes; there's mechanics in Shadow that MicroMade simply doesn't need.

A draw of this server are the custom NPC factions you can align with:

Spoiler: Factions

• The Coalition of Systems
  Standing for justice in an unjust universe, the Coalition marries maneuverability with advanced technology. Ever in search of new friends, their scanners can be found pulsing across the galaxy.
• The Valron Empire
  Seeking glory and honor, the Valron Empire opposes the Coalition's weak goals of cooperation and tolerance, as only the bold win security, and only the strong win allegiance. These warriors have a code of honor, however, and will gladly aid those in need, particularly against craven pirates and ne'er-do-wells.
• Esthar Fleet Systems
  Does interstellar war not suit your fancy? Would you rather take the easy way out? Well, you can come work for Esthar Fleet Systems! We have a competitve package complete with hazard pay - we need your hard work to guard our work fleets, as well as to trade with the Coalition, and to totally not trade with the Valron Empire ever. Damn Coalition laws, getting in the way of our profit...Wilbert, are you still recording this? You're fired!

The specific changes this server will make to game balance and mechanics are below:

Spoiler: Changes

Mass Limit (In Developer Testing)
Your ships can only have a mass up to 100. This makes building a challenge, but also means that it takes less time to recover from having a prized ship shot down. For what it's worth, this limitation applies to everyone, including pirates and the NPC factions. You never need to worry about a bulls@#$ death because of a giant supercarrier that's good at everything.

Quests (In Design)
Quests are a common request of StarMade, and something many other server wrappers implement. In MicroMade, things will be a bit different, however - in addition to a system much like Skyrim's "Radiant" procedural quest generation system, there will be some built-in RP through a keyword system much like Final Fantasy II. By hailing stations, you can learn keywords that let you find out all sorts of useful information, and open up quests, and other goodies.

Modest Starting Assets (In Developer Testing)
You start with no credits, a laser pistol, a healing beam, and a marker. From such humble beginnings will you cleave your name into the history of a galaxy. Additionally, you get a logbook that has a reference of all the special chat commands in the MicroMade mod, such that you can always know what commands will help you do what you want.

Personal Value (In Developer Testing)
As you play on the server, you accumulate personal value that can be claimed on a rainy day. Things that add value include merely playing on the server, destroying other ships, and various other activities. You can cash out your personal value with the !CASHOUT command, if you ever find yourself strapped for resources (or, more likely, if I have to do a total reset of the server.) You can check your value at any time with !NETWORTH ME, and learn about the ins-and-outs of the value system with !NETWORTH HELP. Admins also have unique commands to manipulate value as needed.

Bounties (In Developer Testing)
A player can sacrifice some of their Personal Value, to put bounties out on other players. Killing the target player immediately earns you that bounty in credits. Additionally, a shadowy entity may periodically put out bounties on players. Stay on your guard, and build well!

Parkour
Non-friendly stations have parkour puzzles; maneuvering past these challenges of agility and intellect can yield you phat loots.

Dangerous Pirate Stations
Pirate bases are a persistent danger. Not only does their presence increase the random encounter chance, they are non-trivial targets to take down, especially given the mass limit! That being said, they are beatable, especially with friends.

Useful Friendly Stations (In Development)
Friendly stations may have shops for you to buy items from, but that's not all they can provide. Often, friendly stations provide convenient crafting facilities, as well as shipyards from which you can devise better starship builds, and much more! Plus, they tend to be well-patrolled, and safer.

Block Credit Costs
This server changes some block costs in order to make more sense, and change how the game is played. "Good", consistently useful blocks are more expensive than basic blocks; bad blocks cost less. For instance, Cannon armaments are inexpensive, as they're useful, but have downsides; Beam armaments are expensive, as they're insanely good. Also, there's ways to make money in MicroMade that you might not be expecting...

Block Crafting Costs
This server changes how some blocks are crafted. Blocks that should be basic, like rail dockers and rails, are craftable with basic materials. Medical supplies no longer require rare ores, but instead require you to adventure to planets and find specific plants. There's more!

Faction System (In Design)
You can align yourself with one of three factions - the diplomatic explorers, the Coalition of Systems, the mighty Valron Empire, or the monopolistic, opportunistic Esthar Fleet Systems. Aligning yourself has many advantages, and opens up all manner of ways to make money, get useful ships, and better enjoy the game.

Random Encounters
Pirates are never a truly distant threat. You will have periodic encounters based on the mass of the vessel you're piloting. This makes a combative play style more attainable, and makes a miner/trader play style riskier. Design your ships well, and gird thy loins.

Jail (In Design)
666, 666, 666 is the Jail sector. Break a rule, and you get stuck there. Temporary and Permabans are a higher-grade punishment. The point of Jail is to take a moment and chill out.

Continuous Improvement (In Developer Testing/Always In Progress!)
...And more! I'm always coming up with new mechanics to make the game more interesting. There's limitations in StarMade that I can't yet overcome, but I'm always on the lookout for clever ways to make this server more interesting!

Details on beta-testing the server will be made available when I've created the basic amount of content needed, and established server code. I'll not only be testing for general performance, but also how fun the gameplay is, and what needs to be changed.

I'd also like to thank everyone over in the "New Vanilla Standard" suggestion thread, as that was the catalyst for me to throw off the shackles of merely complaining about problems, and get around to actually doing something about them.

Updates on status will be posted every Sunday.

 

[JumpSuit]

MicroMade - StarMade Like You've Never Played It
A Modded Server Brought to you by Asvarduil, and Esthar Fleet Systems

Project Status: Planning/Content Creation

MicroMade is a modded StarMade server system being developed to address issues I and many other gamers have encountered with game balance. Instead of complaining to Schine and the community more than I already have, I instead am putting my money where my mouth is, and am going to create a server with some very unique rules and challenges.

This server stands on the shoulders of other's work:

Spoiler: Works this server is based on

StarMade
schema's space game is where this all starts, of course! There's great ideas in this game, and awesome building mechanics - where this game falls apart in its vanilla incarnation is due to a lack of focus on the 'game' itself, and the essential experience. MicroMade will correct these issues by deviating from the Vanilla game when necessary. Addtionally, the developer will periodically refine the server based on both player feedback (subjective experience) as well as empirical evidence (data collected by the custom server framework.) It's my sincere hope that this server provides a model of ways to improve the Vanilla game, and inspires Schema to add small, easily-implementable features to make the game more interesting, more modder-friendly, and all around better.

Light vs. Dark
This server had a built-in faction system where you either join the Light or Dark sides. A redux has been established; I haven't played on it yet. On this server, they give you a custom miner recipe right away. The joining of a preset faction, as well being given an intact starter ship are things I think are beneficial to how StarMade works.

MiniMade
Now defunct, MiniMade was the server that started it all for me. This server instituted a 3000 mass limit on ships, and a slightly larger limit on Stations. There were custom factions, and some hilarious outtakes that came with that. The server shut down due to lack of traffic. While MiniMade may be offline now, its legacy will live on in MicroMade. Olxinos, thank you for the great experience, and I hope we see you when MicroMade comes online!

Shadow
Shadow is a server-side mod based on Linux BASH shell scripts, that allows extension within certain limits, by scraping the server output log, and using the Linux screen command to send sequences of built-in commands to the game. I will likely wind up running a very customized version of Shadow that suits my purposes; there's mechanics in Shadow that MicroMade simply doesn't need.

A draw of this server are the custom NPC factions you can align with:

Spoiler: Factions

• The Coalition of Systems
  Standing for justice in an unjust universe, the Coalition marries maneuverability with advanced technology. Ever in search of new friends, their scanners can be found pulsing across the galaxy.
• The Valron Empire
  Seeking glory and honor, the Valron Empire opposes the Coalition's weak goals of cooperation and tolerance, as only the bold win security, and only the strong win allegiance. These warriors have a code of honor, however, and will gladly aid those in need, particularly against craven pirates and ne'er-do-wells.

The specific changes this server will make to game balance and mechanics are below:

Spoiler: Changes

• Modest Starting Assets - You start with no credits, a laser pistol, a healing beam, and a marker. From such humble beginnings will you cleave your name into the history of a galaxy.
• Jail - 666, 666, 666 is the Jail sector. Break a rule, and you get stuck there. Temporary and Permabans are a higher-grade punishment. The point of Jail is to take a moment and chill out.
• Mass Limit - Your ships can only have a mass up to 100. This makes building a challenge, but also means that it takes less time to recover from having a prized ship shot down. For what it's worth, this limitation applies to everyone, including pirates and the NPC factions. You never need to worry about a bulls@#$ death because of a giant supercarrier that's good at everything.
• Block Credit Costs - This server changes some block costs in order to make more sense, and change how the game is played. "Good", consistently useful blocks are more expensive than basic blocks; bad blocks cost less. For instance, Pulse armaments are inexpensive, as they occupy a very niche place in the metagame; Beam armaments are expensive, as they're insanely good. Also, there's ways to make money in MicroMade that you might not be expecting...
• Block Crafting Costs - This server changes how some blocks are crafted. Blocks that should be basic, like rail dockers and rails, are craftable with basic materials. Medical supplies no longer require rare ores, but instead require you to adventure to planets and find specific plants. There's more!
• Faction System - MicroMade's faction turns occur every 3 1/2 days (~84 hours). Faction benefits and costs are tuned to discourage small, one-man factions, as are the two main factions that you can be recruited into upon joining: the noble Coalition of Systems, or the mighty Valron Empire.
• Random Encounters - Pirates are never a truly distant threat. You will have periodic encounters based on the mass of the vessel you're piloting. This makes a combative play style more attainable, and makes a miner/trader play style riskier. Design your ships well, and gird thy loins!
• Dangerous Pirate Stations - Pirate bases are a persistent danger. Not only does their presence increase the random encounter chance, they are non-trivial targets to take down, especially given the mass limit! That being said, they are beatable, especially with friends.
• Parkour - Non-friendly stations have parkour puzzles; maneuvering past these challenges of agility and intellect can yield you phat loots!
• Useful Friendly Stations - Friendly stations may have shops for you to buy items from, but that's not all they can provide. Often, friendly stations provide convenient crafting facilities, as well as shipyards from which you can devise better starship builds, and much more! Plus, they tend to be well-patrolled, and safer.
• ...And more! I'm always coming up with new mechanics to make the game more interesting. There's limitations in StarMade that I can't yet overcome, but I'm always on the lookout for clever ways to make this server more interesting!

Details on beta-testing the server will be made available when I've created the basic amount of content needed, and established server code. I'll not only be testing for general performance, but also how fun the gameplay is, and what needs to be changed.

I wouldn't mind testing this out, but when it is fully released I won't establish. Just for the fact that 100 mass ships are like, nothing... You wouldn't even be able to put any good turrets on. Or even Fleet mechanics, that is ruled out due to not being able to build actual logic systems to dock/launch said drones.

 

[Asvarduil]

I wouldn't mind testing this out, but when it is fully released I won't establish. Just for the fact that 100 mass ships are like, nothing... You wouldn't even be able to put any good turrets on. Or even Fleet mechanics, that is ruled out due to not being able to build actual logic systems to dock/launch said drones.

That's by design. One thing turrets do is nuke performance. Also, they're a 'passive' mode of gameplay - the player doesn't (usually) control them. The point of MicroMade is to enhance the gameplay, and things that the player can't do are considered expendable in my overall game design.

Additionally, the current state of the game does not support crewed battleships. Everything is a fighter, even your awesome 600k supercarrier that lags your enemies to death a few times over. Instead of supporting a manner of gameplay inconsistent with what the game provides, I opt instead to make the game experience cleave to what the game can provide.

As to the fleet system...I dislike it. The point of StarMade is to build starships, not be an RTS. It's an unnecessary system bolted on due to some of the very behaviors that A) run off newcomers, B) render the game un-fun, and C) cause various other problems, like performance issues. I'm happy to let the AI factions worry about running fleets - I want my players building starships and doing things in starships.

As to 100 mass ships being nothing...

That's a 91 mass ship...

And that's a 98 mass ship. Each of those would've taken about an hour and a half to build, had I not made any mistakes at all (and, I did - for instance, I need to fix the weapons on the Valron Flamberge due to the limitations of the game's AI.) Those aren't 'nothing'. I should also note - those ships are boardable, as well.

The real point of the 100 mass limit though, is game design considerations. If you're playing as Coalition, and a Flamberge wrecks you...well, you die and respawn, but you can get a half-decent ship up and running again quickly. Iteration time scales linearly to ship size, after all.

Additionally, you can't design a 'jack-of-all-stats' ship. You actually have to prioritize, and strategize, and be capable of piloting your ship to overcome the weaknesses you will build into a ship. Yes, it makes it more likely that you'll die, but that's all part of the fun. StarMade is a game about building starships. If you don't die once in a while, you're not building starships and improving them, now are you?

 

[JumpSuit]

That's by design. One thing turrets do is nuke performance. Also, they're a 'passive' mode of gameplay - the player doesn't (usually) control them. The point of MicroMade is to enhance the gameplay, and things that the player can't do are considered expendable in my overall game design.

Additionally, the current state of the game does not support crewed battleships. Everything is a fighter, even your awesome 600k supercarrier that lags your enemies to death a few times over. Instead of supporting a manner of gameplay inconsistent with what the game provides, I opt instead to make the game experience cleave to what the game can provide.

As to 100 mass ships being nothing...

That's a 91 mass ship...

And that's a 98 mass ship. Each of those would've taken about an hour and a half to build, had I not made any mistakes at all (and, I did - for instance, I need to fix the weapons on the Valron Flamberge due to the limitations of the game's AI.) Those aren't 'nothing'. I should also note - those ships are boardable, as well.

The real point of the 100 mass limit though, is game design considerations. If you're playing as Coalition, and a Flamberge wrecks you...well, you die and respawn, but you can get a half-decent ship up and running again quickly. Iteration time scales linearly to ship size, after all.

Additionally, you can't design a 'jack-of-all-stats' ship. You actually have to prioritize, and strategize, and be capable of piloting your ship to overcome the weaknesses you will build into a ship. Yes, it makes it more likely that you'll die, but that's all part of the fun. StarMade is a game about building starships. If you don't die once in a while, you're not building starships and improving them, now are you?

To try and tackle each of you points: Turrets make sense, but either passive or active, they still provide a source of gameplay that is nifty to have on ANY ship 1.0 mass or 600k mass.

As for ship size, I see your viewpoint relating to ship design which I can get a liking too, but it kinda eliminates classes of ships ya know? For fleets, mining fleets are promoted on the 'vanilla' style as I have a less than 1k mass fleet that can mine pretty sizable astroids in few mins (which for me is quite neat), instead of massive lag machine docked entity miners that bypass salvage computer group limit. But for fleets they re small and not needed to be large.

My question relating to stats: so for instance: shields - will fighting be the same type of stale-mate-ing type of thing that even with large carriers can be like that with two small 100 mass ships?

Dying shouldn't count as 'learning', you don't need to die to learn anything within a game, the way you learn is by testing what you got against a target. Not get sacked by a ship that is probably not your size, but in this case, dying won't help you learn on this 'micromade' server as all the ships will essentially be the same size.

- your friendly neighborhood Jester, JumpSuit (also, just my input relating to ship size, do not take this the wrong way, but smaller ship size is kinda what ended mini-made due to players leaving, I am curious if history will repeat itself. the is just me tho )

 

[Asvarduil]

To try and tackle each of you points: Turrets make sense, but either passive or active, they still provide a source of gameplay that is nifty to have on ANY ship 1.0 mass or 600k mass.

As for ship size, I see your viewpoint relating to ship design which I can get a liking too, but it kinda eliminates classes of ships ya know? For fleets, mining fleets are promoted on the 'vanilla' style as I have a less than 1k mass fleet that can mine pretty sizable astroids in few mins (which for me is quite neat), instead of massive lag machine docked entity miners that bypass salvage computer group limit. But for fleets they re small and not needed to be large.

My question relating to stats: so for instance: shields - will fighting be the same type of stale-mate-ing type of thing that even with large carriers can be like that with two small 100 mass ships?

Dying shouldn't count as 'learning', you don't need to die to learn anything within a game, the way you learn is by testing what you got against a target. Not get sacked by a ship that is probably not your size, but in this case, dying won't help you learn on this 'micromade' server as all the ships will essentially be the same size.

- your friendly neighborhood Jester, JumpSuit (also, just my input relating to ship size, do not take this the wrong way, but smaller ship size is kinda what ended minimal due to players leaving, I am curious if history will repeat itself. the is just me tho )

Turrets
So, one of my axes of this project, is listening to feedback. Tell you what I'm going to do - I'm going to make a third faction, neutral/friendly to the other two, that uses turrets as their primary armament. In my sub-100 mass designs so far, I haven't tried accounting for turret systems; before I go too hog-wild with the mass limit, I can see the merits of trying out turrets.

You didn't challenge me, but I accept your challenge all the same! Besides, turrets suit an AI faction well. It's not like a human absolutely is flying these AI faction vessels, necessarily. Also, I need to be open-minded for this project to work.

Shield Stalemates
Based on my testing my designs so far, I'm pretty sure it won't. 100-mass doesn't seem like you could create a self-perpetuating shielding system, though I'm sure some intelligent player will figure out a way to do that. Pro-tip to any game designer anywhere: If you say, "There's no way a gamer can do X in my game!", give it a week - at least one gamer will, in fact figure out a way to do X.

As to these NPC faction designs...well, you should fear either one. The Valron Flamberge can take down the shields of a lesser fighter in a couple of shots. The Coalition Legionnaire can one-shot a Flamberge's shields and damage the ship underneath, though the weapon recharges glacially. Flamberges have 10k shields, Legionnaires have 12k shields. I'm sure I could bump that up by a couple of thousand points, or I could sacrifice some shields to make the shields regenerate under fire more quickly...but I'm not seeing any possible way to have a sub-100 permashield ship.

Of course, I'm not opposed to custom block configurations, either, so if necessary I can buff or nerf things such that perma-shields aren't a problem. The caveat I choose to append, though: I shall tread lightly. I see the issues that Schine has with balancing this game, and see enough to know it's non-trivial.

"Dying is not learning"
We disagree, but I can see a way that it's not. If you read what I wrote, you'll notice I used the word iteration.

If you build a ship and it's destroyed, you know something about that design failed. Maybe the opponent had better weapons. Maybe the opponent could out-maneuver you. Maybe you messed up the power system. That's not the point, though. By having small ship sizes, you can try again more quickly. That is iteration. I want players to be able to iterate designs quickly. StarMade, being an engineering game, needs to teach iteration of designs as a core skill. A player who doesn't learn to iterate, ragequits due to combat imbalance. I've never heard that before...

Lastly, "all ships are the same size", "this gets rid of classes of ships"... No, none of those opinions are rooted in any form of fact. Once again:

The forward ship is a heavy warship, 12k shields, beam/beam power-lasers, and missile-beam homing torpedoes. It can take and dish out punishment like a boss, because it's in essence a boss monster. The two ships flanking it - the one on the left is a saboteur (it's actual name is the Coalition Hoplite). It fires Missile/Cannon/16.5% Stop missiles to root an enemy in place, while still dealing some damage. The one on the right is a Coalition Dragoon, a supporting attacker. It is only equipped with beam/beam power-lasers, but it also fits a scanner system such that it can decloak/dejam stealth vessels. Of course, both ships have roughly 1k shields.

The point is, at sub-100 mass, you'd be amazed what 'classes' and 'roles' actually exist. You can have designs like the Origin M50 from Star Citizen, which makes an amazing skirmisher. You can have heavy ships like the Valron Flamberge or Coalition Legionnaire. You have mid-weight specialized fighters like the ones discussed above. The continuum from Mass 1 to Mass 100 is full of possibilities.

Having players explore that space, is yet another reason the mass limit is a thing.

"Players Left MiniMade because of ship size"
I thank you for your friendly comments. The ship size thing is one of the last things I'll disagree on. I think most players invested in large ships wouldn't even dream of playing on MiniMade, and less so on MicroMade - and, that's another point of this server. I want to offer a mode of play for very small ships, where very large ships are simply impossible to build.

As a former MiniMade player, I have to say this - the problems with MiniMade, weren't due to MiniMade. They were problems with StarMade. This game has nearly no thought spared towards the game aspect. The build tools are awesome, great job to Schine. The game is technically impressive, hats off to Schema - this is in fact a very ambitious program, and he deserves nothing but respect for attempting it. As far as being a good game, as far as being a satisfying work of fiction, with structured activity...it's just not. Mass limits alone can't, and don't fix that.

That's why I'm mucking with other things, like the economy and crafting systems. That's why enemy stations will host logic-based puzzles and parkour challenges (with loot at the end.) One criticism I and so many others keep on bringing up, is that there's no reason to build a ship in this game, there's nothing to really do. I can't make that problem entirely go away, but by creating challenges, by having a custom random encounter system that makes combat (or, fleeing combat) something of an inevitability, it's possible to put a little more game, into this game, and thus make it more interesting, and thus make people less likely to give up on it.

And, that brings me to the last point. If by all metrics the server is fun, if by all metrics it's awesome, and the mass limit is the reason people give up on it...firstly, I hope Schine would take notice of the things done and incorporate as many of them into the core game as possible. I would be amenable to raising the mass limit, making it less strict. However, that's a last-ditch option in my opinion, for the game design reasons stated above. If it turns out any limit is too much of a limit, though, that might not be a problem I can solve, and it might well be a fatal flaw in StarMade itself.

If everything is valid, nothing is.

 

[DrTarDIS]

recommendation: Nerf, or remove jump drives. Player diaspora will probably be an issue with mass-limited ships and a smaller player-base.

 

[JumpSuit]

Turrets
So, one of my axes of this project, is listening to feedback. Tell you what I'm going to do - I'm going to make a third faction, neutral/friendly to the other two, that uses turrets as their primary armament. In my sub-100 mass designs so far, I haven't tried accounting for turret systems; before I go too hog-wild with the mass limit, I can see the merits of trying out turrets.

You didn't challenge me, but I accept your challenge all the same! Besides, turrets suit an AI faction well. It's not like a human absolutely is flying these AI faction vessels, necessarily. Also, I need to be open-minded for this project to work.

Shield Stalemates
Based on my testing my designs so far, I'm pretty sure it won't. 100-mass doesn't seem like you could create a self-perpetuating shielding system, though I'm sure some intelligent player will figure out a way to do that. Pro-tip to any game designer anywhere: If you say, "There's no way a gamer can do X in my game!", give it a week - at least one gamer will, in fact figure out a way to do X.

As to these NPC faction designs...well, you should fear either one. The Valron Flamberge can take down the shields of a lesser fighter in a couple of shots. The Coalition Legionnaire can one-shot a Flamberge's shields and damage the ship underneath, though the weapon recharges glacially. Flamberges have 10k shields, Legionnaires have 12k shields. I'm sure I could bump that up by a couple of thousand points, or I could sacrifice some shields to make the shields regenerate under fire more quickly...but I'm not seeing any possible way to have a sub-100 permashield ship.

Of course, I'm not opposed to custom block configurations, either, so if necessary I can buff or nerf things such that perma-shields aren't a problem. The caveat I choose to append, though: I shall tread lightly. I see the issues that Schine has with balancing this game, and see enough to know it's non-trivial.

"Dying is not learning"
We disagree, but I can see a way that it's not. If you read what I wrote, you'll notice I used the word iteration.

If you build a ship and it's destroyed, you know something about that design failed. Maybe the opponent had better weapons. Maybe the opponent could out-maneuver you. Maybe you messed up the power system. That's not the point, though. By having small ship sizes, you can try again more quickly. That is iteration. I want players to be able to iterate designs quickly. StarMade, being an engineering game, needs to teach iteration of designs as a core skill. A player who doesn't learn to iterate, ragequits due to combat imbalance. I've never heard that before...

Lastly, "all ships are the same size", "this gets rid of classes of ships"... No, none of those opinions are rooted in any form of fact. Once again:

The forward ship is a heavy warship, 12k shields, beam/beam power-lasers, and missile-beam homing torpedoes. It can take and dish out punishment like a boss, because it's in essence a boss monster. The two ships flanking it - the one on the left is a saboteur (it's actual name is the Coalition Hoplite). It fires Missile/Cannon/16.5% Stop missiles to root an enemy in place, while still dealing some damage. The one on the right is a Coalition Dragoon, a supporting attacker. It is only equipped with beam/beam power-lasers, but it also fits a scanner system such that it can decloak/dejam stealth vessels. Of course, both ships have roughly 1k shields.

The point is, at sub-100 mass, you'd be amazed what 'classes' and 'roles' actually exist. You can have designs like the Origin M50 from Star Citizen, which makes an amazing skirmisher. You can have heavy ships like the Valron Flamberge or Coalition Legionnaire. You have mid-weight specialized fighters like the ones discussed above. The continuum from Mass 1 to Mass 100 is full of possibilities.

Having players explore that space, is yet another reason the mass limit is a thing.

"Players Left MiniMade because of ship size"
I thank you for your friendly comments. The ship size thing is one of the last things I'll disagree on. I think most players invested in large ships wouldn't even dream of playing on MiniMade, and less so on MicroMade - and, that's another point of this server. I want to offer a mode of play for very small ships, where very large ships are simply impossible to build.

As a former MiniMade player, I have to say this - the problems with MiniMade, weren't due to MiniMade. They were problems with StarMade. This game has nearly no thought spared towards the game aspect. The build tools are awesome, great job to Schine. The game is technically impressive, hats off to Schema - this is in fact a very ambitious program, and he deserves nothing but respect for attempting it. As far as being a good game, as far as being a satisfying work of fiction, with structured activity...it's just not. Mass limits alone can't, and don't fix that.

That's why I'm mucking with other things, like the economy and crafting systems. That's why enemy stations will host logic-based puzzles and parkour challenges (with loot at the end.) One criticism I and so many others keep on bringing up, is that there's no reason to build a ship in this game, there's nothing to really do. I can't make that problem entirely go away, but by creating challenges, by having a custom random encounter system that makes combat (or, fleeing combat) something of an inevitability, it's possible to put a little more game, into this game, and thus make it more interesting, and thus make people less likely to give up on it.

And, that brings me to the last point. If by all metrics the server is fun, if by all metrics it's awesome, and the mass limit is the reason people give up on it...firstly, I hope Schine would take notice of the things done and incorporate as many of them into the core game as possible. I would be amenable to raising the mass limit, making it less strict. However, that's a last-ditch option in my opinion, for the game design reasons stated above. If it turns out any limit is too much of a limit, though, that might not be a problem I can solve, and it might well be a fatal flaw in StarMade itself.

If everything is valid, nothing is.

To change the subject from the ones you tackled, One cool idea would be the use of 'Boarding', this makes more sense as the ships are more smaller and can thus be boarded more better, this should be influenced as this game aspect hasn't been touched heavily by schine sadly. So If you could do something to make boarding worth the run for the money I'd dig that.

If a paradox is something that is there and there again, then the possibility of having two of yourselves on Earth is a paradox within itself.

 

[Asvarduil]

recommendation: Nerf, or remove jump drives. Player diaspora will probably be an issue with mass-limited ships and a smaller player-base.

I'll take that into consideration. My first iteration will likely be 'nerf Jump, increase sector size.' That being said - I do have a way to implement random encounters in theory. Player diaspora may matter less than you'd think. Only when I get to beta test will I be able to tell.

To change the subject from the ones you tackled, One cool idea would be the use of 'Boarding', this makes more sense as the ships are more smaller and can thus be boarded more better, this should be influenced as this game aspect hasn't been touched heavily by schine sadly. So If you could do something to make boarding worth the run for the money I'd dig that.

One cool thing about super-small ships is that they're usually specialized fighters - the only trick, is how you specialize them, and what you put on them. You don't have to have all ships be boardable ships. That being said, all my bigger ships are designed around being able to be boarded; what's more, especially on pirate-aligned ships, I want to ensure there's always loot to be had. Collecting loot is for some reason a most human compulsion. We love those phat loots!

So, yeah, some ships and most stations will be boardable. I might even take a page out of Dr. Whammy and have stations have pirate-aligned mechs inside of them that you can fight with the laser pistol. I might need to buff the laser pistol...but whatever. I'm the server admin, the server is my bitch!*

Excellent suggestion. I'll keep stewing on how to Make Boarding Great Again.

*: Within certain limits. Some restrictions do apply.

 

[JumpSuit]

I'll take that into consideration. My first iteration will likely be 'nerf Jump, increase sector size.' That being said - I do have a way to implement random encounters in theory. Player diaspora may matter less than you'd think. Only when I get to beta test will I be able to tell.



One cool thing about super-small ships is that they're usually specialized fighters. You don't have to have all ships be boardable ships. That being said, all my bigger ships are designed around being able to be boarded; what's more, especially on pirate-aligned ships, I want to ensure there's always loot to be had. Collecting loot is for some reason a most human compulsion. We love those phat loots!

So, yeah, some ships and most stations will be boardable. I might even take a page out of Dr. Whammy and have stations have pirate-aligned mechs inside of them that you can fight with the laser pistol. I might need to buff the laser pistol...but whatever. I'm the server admin, the server is my bitch!*

*: Within certain limits. Some restrictions do apply.

Well, I never stated that ALL ships need to be board-able, but if the got an interior... they can be board-able
Buffing the laser pistol may not be ideal as if that is the case, you turn it past 120 dps, insta kills an astronaut. So I don't advise doing that, Soooo yeeee....

(quote of the post) "If computers are the new industry in this world, why does most of the people not recognize it as a job opportunity?

 

[Asvarduil]

Well, I never stated that ALL ships need to be board-able, but if the got an interior... they can be board-able
Buffing the laser pistol may not be ideal as if that is the case, you turn it past 120 dps, insta kills an astronaut. So I don't advise doing that, Soooo yeeee....

(quote of the post) "If computers are the new industry in this world, why does most of the people not recognize it as a job opportunity?

In reverse:

#2: Steve Jobs.

#1: Yeah I might need to watch buffing the laser pistol. I could ensure that the pira-mechs have fatal flaws. I might also consider buffing players to be slightly more resilient (but, not too much so). In fact...I need to research if I even can buff player HP at all!

QotP:
Know your paradoxes! "This statement is false." "New mission: refuse this mission!" "Does a set of all sets contain itself?"

Also, why are our bolded words at the end of our posts always dealing with paradoxes? This is getting ridiculous.

 

[JumpSuit]

In reverse:

#2: Steve Jobs.

#1: Yeah I might need to watch buffing the laser pistol. I could ensure that the pira-mechs have fatal flaws. I might also consider buffing players to be slightly more resilient (but, not too much so). In fact...I need to research if I even can buff player HP at all!

QotP:
Know your paradoxes! "This statement is false." "New mission: refuse this mission!" "Does a set of all sets contain itself?"

In Re-reverse:

#1: Maybe like warheads that could be exposed by shooting the pistol at a logic block that triggers a rail rotator when shot out, thus inverting the signal and rotator activates and warhead behind where the rail rotator was covering the warhead :P

#2: Steve Jobs may have invented Apple, but during the early stages of apple a lot of their services weren't that great, even the lost apple console...

 

[Dr. Whammy]

In reverse:

#2: Steve Jobs.

#1: Yeah I might need to watch buffing the laser pistol. I could ensure that the pira-mechs have fatal flaws. I might also consider buffing players to be slightly more resilient (but, not too much so). In fact...I need to research if I even can buff player HP at all!

QotP:
Know your paradoxes! "This statement is false." "New mission: refuse this mission!" "Does a set of all sets contain itself?"

Also, why are our bolded words at the end of our posts always dealing with paradoxes? This is getting ridiculous.

Try skipping the laser buff and making your mechs out of regular hull. That will entice players to explore and grab a sniper rifle or rocket launcher.

The catch; if the station has shields and the mechs are setup like turrets (most of mine are) they will be invincible until the station shields drop.

 

[Asvarduil]

Try skipping the laser buff and making your mechs out of regular hull. That will entice players to explore and grab a sniper rifle or rocket launcher.

The catch; if the station has shields and the mechs are setup like turrets (most of mine are) they will be invincible until the station shields drop.

So, I might have a solution to that. Once upon a time, long ago when I first started experimenting with rails, one thing I found out quicklly is that you can influence the physical facing of a rail block with logic.

So, what I'd do is set up basic rails at all starting points in a given station. The station will also have shields that will regenerate faster than the pistol can drop them (so, > 120 shields/sec). The player could theoretically use ships to brute-force the stations shields, but I'm going to be a generous/connivving game developer, and give the player an 'easy' way in.

Along the way will be triggers linked to a trigger controller. If those triggers are tripped it will flip the docking blocks that the mechs are on, such that the mechs will no longer be docked. This effectively will activate them.

All rooms for the mechs will be big enough for them to move about; doors will be small enough that they can't follow you. Obviously, you must defeat the mechs to pass further into the station...or, you could always try another route....Muahahahahaahahahah sucker!

I'll have to play around with station design. I'm going to design the turret ships when I get home, because I do think I need to try out having turrets mounted on sub-100 mass ships.

 

[Asvarduil]

So, I was able to fit turrets on sub-100 mass ships. A very basic turret fits no problem. I bet it'd be possible to put a more interesting turret on a basic spaceframe. I need to experiment more with the idea.

Anyways, the third playable faction, for those who don't like fighting: You can come work for Esthar Fleet Systems! Just, don't irritate HR.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

So, I might have a solution to that. Once upon a time, long ago when I first started experimenting with rails, one thing I found out quicklly is that you can influence the physical facing of a rail block with logic.

So, what I'd do is set up basic rails at all starting points in a given station. The station will also have shields that will regenerate faster than the pistol can drop them (so, > 120 shields/sec). The player could theoretically use ships to brute-force the stations shields, but I'm going to be a generous/connivving game developer, and give the player an 'easy' way in.

Along the way will be triggers linked to a trigger controller. If those triggers are tripped it will flip the docking blocks that the mechs are on, such that the mechs will no longer be docked. This effectively will activate them.

All rooms for the mechs will be big enough for them to move about; doors will be small enough that they can't follow you. Obviously, you must defeat the mechs to pass further into the station...or, you could always try another route....Muahahahahaahahahah sucker!

I'll have to play around with station design. I'm going to design the turret ships when I get home, because I do think I need to try out having turrets mounted on sub-100 mass ships.

I recommend not giving your mechs any thrusters then. Otherwise, they'll bounce around the station, clip through walls and generate lag.

So, I was able to fit turrets on sub-100 mass ships. A very basic turret fits no problem. I bet it'd be possible to put a more interesting turret on a basic spaceframe. I need to experiment more with the idea.

Anyways, the third playable faction, for those who don't like fighting: You can come work for Esthar Fleet Systems! Just, don't irritate HR.

Looking good. Keep it up.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

The wait for the upcoming power update has left me dormant for too long. Tonight, I'm going to dedicate the rest of my evening to building a "Micro-Axis" fleet line up. In time, we will see who is the true Micro-Master!

Edit: By the way, what is the mass limit for player stations? Also, are planet bases allowed?

 

[silverfoe]

100 mass I must play here. currently my favorit mass to fly is 100 ish mass but that isnt the case since ships that size cant do anything, so my favorite mass is like 1k - 10k. but since this server has a limit.....omg

 

[Dr. Whammy]

The Minis.... They're growi... Um.., shrinking...

Markus_McCloud!

I've found a crowd that you'd match well with. Join us...

 

[Asvarduil]

Well, I did find a use for pulse weapons...



If you're gettting EPYON vibes off of the Duelist MECHA...then you're nerdy enough for this server.

I could actually make the Pulse Sword bigger, and maybe add some other effects to it. The idea with this suit, is that it is in it's own Random Encounter spawn pool, and it will come right for you. You don't think StarMade can be scary? Heheheheh...

The good news is it doesn't have shields. You can shoot it down, if you can hit it.

I'm not sure if this'll make its way onto the server. As a human, it's downright impossible to fight in this thing, due to the 2.5 T:M ratio, StarMade being laggy when collisions happen, as well as how odd the Pulse weapon is to operate.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Well, I did find a use for pulse weapons...

View attachment 44709 View attachment 44710

If you're gettting EPYON vibes off of the Duelist MECHA...then you're nerdy enough for this server.

I could actually make the Pulse Sword bigger, and maybe add some other effects to it. The idea with this suit, is that it is in it's own Random Encounter spawn pool, and it will come right for you. You don't think StarMade can be scary? Heheheheh...

The good news is it doesn't have shields. You can shoot it down, if you can hit it.

I'm not sure if this'll make its way onto the server. As a human, it's downright impossible to fight in this thing, due to the 2.5 T:M ratio, StarMade being laggy when collisions happen, as well as how odd the Pulse weapon is to operate.

OH HEEEEEEELL YES!