The Quickfire Initiative: Rebalancing StarMade.

[Scypio]

I was thinking about this "initiative". From some aspect, we're doing like we do with old power ? Just put as much block we can in the space, and fill up the ship with power, stabilisator or chamber.

So it's like we do before exept we have enhancer block, weapon etc..

I'm wrong ?

Eeeeeh, yes and no. There is more interesting choices when building. To name a few :
- Should you use internal empty space ? Empty space stops acid from propagating to the next layer so internal empty space is interesting. Though it just mean that instead of going further the acid damage will just go wider.
- What weapon loadout should you take ? Since every weapons has different range/dps/base effects, every weapon has their specialty.
- Should you bank on speed and low armor or big armor and low speed ? That is more relevant than before since the introduction of the armor formula.
- How should your armor be layered ? Since every type of armor blocks have different purpose, you don't use them the same way.
And so on. We tried to give a lot of options and all of theses options should be somewhat equal to each others. However as philthy mcnasty said our problem is data to balance the values. And well, a concept or something might be bugged to the point where it needs to be disabled or completely changed. We cannot tell in advance what the community comes up with. We can think of most things but cannot think of everything. That is not possible.
Quickfire is a set of configs we think is better for the game but to become actually a better set of configs it needs to be tested and at some point we need to jump in to find the issues our configs bring and try to fix it. Our advantage compared to schine is that we don't change the configs of every server at each updates. We just change the configs of our server and then server owners decide or not to download our latest updates. We have our hands free compared to schine concerning configs change so we use that to our advantage.

 

[philthy mcnasty]

So voids now have a purpose? i never considered that they stop acid spreading. I was going to fill EVERY space with something but now....

This makes me think that putting "crew quarters" on the outside and systems in the interior is not a bad idea. I

Is there a list for the armor protection? i am coming back after three years and i just assumed that the armor material only affected color...

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Feedback/Request.

1) Please turn NPC faction spawning off in new server.cfg files by default. All they do is clog up the galaxy and get in the way of everything. It's kind of annoying (infuriating) to have to hunt in the config file to manually turn these guys off for every update. ...only for them to appear anyway because of a save error or some other bug.

2) It would also help players/testers identify problems like these in configs if the text was better organized. Currently, the configs are one big blob of continuous text. Is it possible to have them separated into individual lines (similar to attached) so we don't have to keep doing it manually with each config release?

 

[philthy mcnasty]

How do you upgrade reactors in quickfire? do you just make the block groups bigger? do you make a new block group? The game does not tell you much about how this works. I am playing around in creative trying to make a max jump range ship, but all it ends up doing is either making two groups of jump drives or one level one group.

 

[Keptick]

Feedback/Request.

1) Please turn NPC faction spawning off in new server.cfg files by default. All they do is clog up the galaxy and get in the way of everything. It's kind of annoying (infuriating) to have to hunt in the config file to manually turn these guys off for every update. ...only for them to appear anyway because of a save error or some other bug.

2) It would also help players/testers identify problems like these in configs if the text was better organized. Currently, the configs are one big blob of continuous text. Is it possible to have them separated into individual lines (similar to attached) so we don't have to keep doing it manually with each config release?

Use something like notepad++ to open the configs, not window's text editor. If you use a proper editor then the config is properly organised in lines/categories, instead of a single ultra long line (I assume that's your problem?)

 

[The Quickfire Initiative]

The Quickfire Initiative has reached a point in development where we see fit to declare and release Version 1 of our configs. The overview document linked in the topic has been updated, and there is now a somewhat less formal document of change notes, along with a few points on what to expect building ships in QF, available here, courtesy of Scypio . As always, the latest config set is available via our GitHub repo.

 

[The Quickfire Initiative]

1) Please turn NPC faction spawning off in new server.cfg files by default. All they do is clog up the galaxy and get in the way of everything. It's kind of annoying (infuriating) to have to hunt in the config file to manually turn these guys off for every update. ...only for them to appear anyway because of a save error or some other bug.

This is strictly a survival game mode concern. Because much of the survival game will change after the universe update, Quickfire deals almost entirely with combat and ship systems balance. While this would obviously be beneficial in the near term, it is outside of our scope.

How do you upgrade reactors in quickfire? do you just make the block groups bigger? do you make a new block group? The game does not tell you much about how this works. I am playing around in creative trying to make a max jump range ship, but all it ends up doing is either making two groups of jump drives or one level one group.

Reactors are upgraded by the same method as in vanilla StarMade (in fact, we have no other option): add more reactor blocks to the single reactor group, and add more stabilizers to compensate. The only difference is that in Quickfire configs, there is no need for stabilizer distance.
It would appear, however, that you are in fact attempting to upgrade the reactor FTL chamber for jump range. To do this, you don't add more physical blocks or a second chamber. Rather, you to to the reactor menu, open the chamber tree view, click on your level 1 Jump Drive Range chamber to select it, then click on the button at the bottom of the reactor menu to rank the chamber up to the desired level.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

This is strictly a survival game mode concern. Because much of the survival game will change after the universe update, Quickfire deals almost entirely with combat and ship systems balance. While this would obviously be beneficial in the near term, it is outside of our scope.

Regarding "strictly a survival concern"; Not really. These NPC uints do nothing but clutter up the system; both gameplay-wise and RAM/HDD-wise. My experience has been that they serve no purpose with regard to balance testing except to disrupt it. ...both in single player and multi-player.

Regarding "out of scope"; If your focus is truly combat balance, then there is no reason to have these things turned on by default. ...epecially sisnce the NPCs do not use QF-rated systems.

 

[The Quickfire Initiative]

PSA: Everyone should probably set the InertiaPow value in their config somewhere between 0.25 and 0.3 depending on personal preference. The current QF default of 0.2 is very low, and is the cause of large ships turning like fighters. It only slipped through testing due to a client cache bug. We will hopefully have this officially patched soon.

 

[Zephyrim]

PSA: Everyone should probably set the InertiaPow value in their config somewhere between 0.25 and 0.3 depending on personal preference. The current QF default of 0.2 is very low, and is the cause of large ships turning like fighters. It only slipped through testing due to a client cache bug. We will hopefully have this officially patched soon.

Hey, so where do you find this variable? I looked in-game as well as in the server.cfg file and gameconfig.xml and did not find InertiaPow.

Also, can you refresh me on how sector sizes and render distances work in this game in relation to weapon ranges? Should I set my sectors to 12km so they line up with the new max range, or do sectors still spawn in a 3x3(x3?) around the player so I should set the value to 8,000 blocks so you can shoot the edge of the furthest sector from you from one sector, or potentially even higher?

I'm also kind of wondering how that works with render distance, considering I have it set to 200,000 chunks drawn which I assume is extreme though it doesn't hurt performance too much.

 

[Scypio]

Hey, so where do you find this variable? I looked in-game as well as in the server.cfg file and gameconfig.xml and did not fin

Blockbehavior.xml
You can download the updated version on our github. See first post for full information.

Also, can you refresh me on how sector sizes and render distances work in this game in relation to weapon ranges? Should I set my sectors to 12km so they line up with the new max range, or do sectors still spawn in a 3x3(x3?) around the player so I should set the value to 8,000 blocks so you can shoot the edge of the furthest sector from you from one sector, or potentially even higher?

You're mixing both.
Sector size is dependent on what they are set up. So a 12km size means a cube of 12km in each sizes.
They are loaded into the server's memory in a 3x3 cube around the player (the sector he's in and sectors around).
The render distance is as it is written. The distance at which the game will render blocks from the client perspective.
As to sector's size. You should set it to what we are using in our server.cfg. weapons' range is relarive to the value set in the configs. Not the sector themselves.


As the configs are being released in the release branch, we are likely to run into issues. And we intend to fix theses issues with your help. As such you should be looking at our github every few days to get the last configs and get to a state where configs are the best.
But this cannot be done without constructive feedback from you, the community. We are not dumb, we can understand when there is a problem. But you have to take some time to explain it first so we can pin point the issue and give it the best fix possible. Only by being adults we are going to move forward together.

 

[Tsnonak]

In the new v0.202.86 release blockBehaviorConfig.xml we now have new ArmorCalcStyle's for cannons and beams...

Why is there not one for missiles?

... seems like that would hinder balancing.

 

[Scypio]

As the configs are being released in the release branch, we are likely to run into issues. And we intend to fix theses issues with your help. As such you should be looking at our github every few days to get the last configs and get to a state where configs are the best.
But this cannot be done without constructive feedback from you, the community. We are not dumb, we can understand when there is a problem. But you have to take some time to explain it first so we can pin point the issue and give it the best fix possible. Only by being adults we are going to move forward together.

And thanks to tsonak here, we have the first and best example of what i was referring to. A small short answer with a pinch of comments to biais the reader. There is no real question backed up with thoughts or anything like that. As to if the goal is to only ask a genuine question or simply trying to proove something else is up to you to decide. Personnaly i'm pretty sure of the answer.

And to answer to the question : no it is not. Because missiles are the only weapon that can be shot down by pd turrets. They're the only weapon baffled armor or even empty space render useless. They're the only weapon so much stuff exists to make them useless. They got to have something in return. And armor has to have its natural counter anyway. So it can be strong against what it is good at.

 

[Tsnonak]

Responses like that play a big part in why barely anybody participated...

anyone that wanted to help and gave * contra * (feedback), or did not share your views, was told NO, dealt with in a typical meta-gaming-manor, and disregarded, as you have just done.

Add the superiority complex tone that you guys seem intent on using to it.

That was a very serious game-coding question...
to balance all three weapons they all need the same coding that brings them in-line somewhere.
Edit: ...not to mention, if modding is to become reality; something is needed.

You failed to answer my question directly, your explanation of why QF thinks it doesn't belong is superfluous.

I will have to guess, either QF has convinced Schine that it doesn't belong, or it's more half implemented code.

Thanks for trying though!

 

[Tsnonak]

... while I'm still here, might as well go all out...

I've been testing this a while now and the biggest disappointment with this update is the loss of freedom to build how we want to!

or maybe QF can just build everything for us now according to the new Codex:




aw man, cramm it down my throat any harder and i'll vomit.

The reason minecraft is so successful is its simplicity.

Stop trying to turn a great game into an EliteEpeenBuffingMachine, (wrong league for minecraft in space).

What about the kids, and simple fun...

... serious wtf ...

welcome to eve-made

Stay tuned for the onslought of Meta-Distractions...

~ Transmission End ~

 

[Scypio]

The reason minecraft is so successful is its simplicity.

What about the kids...

Minecraft is not simple. You have to learn the tons of different crafts and recipes you can have. Not speaking about enchantment and stuff. Then, let's speak about all of the logic ... ?
Kids are not dumbasses. They have more than 2 neurons and can think for themselves.

That was a very serious game-coding question...
to balance all three weapons they all need the same coding that brings them in-line somewhere.

We are not the ones coding for the game. We are not the ones to ask the question. If it hasn't been done it is because schema didn't bothered doing it ? Or whatever other reason he has ? Each and every weapons function differently and they each use a different code to apply damage. Don't try to look smart if you aren't.

I've been testing this a while now and the biggest disappointment with this update is the loss of freedom to build how we want to!

You are free to build however you want. It won't be the most effective thing if you don't follow the guidelines of the systems. Which was always the case. However the meta is, and we believe it, healthier.
Also you don't have anymore stabs distance requirement. Less freedom yes, of course.

 

[troll82]

Well believe what you want bout qf configs, ive seen playerbase yesterday and they plumited deep in the floor. Even the updated servers had a max of 4 players while they used to have atleast double

 

[troll82]

Even after first day of p2.0 there wasnt a drop as big as this. Sounds promising for the game while yall say it will save the game

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Responses like that play a big part in why barely anybody participated...

anyone that wanted to help and gave * contra * (feedback), or did not share your views, was told NO, dealt with in a typical meta-gaming-manor, and disregarded, as you have just done.

Add the superiority complex tone that you guys seem intent on using to it.

Like it or not, there is quite a bit of truth in these statements.

Example; on Discord, when I offered constructive feedback AND my own observations for thrust configs, the majority of the initial responses I got were pretty damn ignorant; including some kid talking shit and bragging about why he's a tester; as if...
1) ...anyone actually cares.
2) ...him being a tester somehow makes him "better" than me or invalidates my findings.
3) ...there isn't undocumented, independent QF testing being done by other players outside of their group.

That discussion gradually became more productive when I posted all the data from my findings but I suspect that not all players have the patience to deal with that kind of immaturity and "cool kids only" nonsense.

While appreciate that there is an effort to revive this game, it is clear from what I've seen on discord that this is not a "community driven" project but rather the personal preferences of a small group of players.

I can see these things easily discouraging active participation from other players.

 

[unelsson]

It's superb that someone (Quickfire in this case) is in charge, and makes decisions. Balancing Starmade is important and requires thought, but the most important thing is just choosing something and sticking with it. Designing ships takes a lot of work, so default game settings need to be fixed, once some sort of solution is found. Feedback for this work is probably a good thing, even if perhaps not always worded in the most constructive way.

There is no perfect solution to game rules. It's all about preferences. This is what modding is for.

Now however, all of you are getting into a yet another needless flamed argument here. This community has had too much of that. For the sake of development, please keep the discussion civil.