The Quickfire Initiative: Rebalancing StarMade.

[Scypio]

I've been working on a ~150 long hull for the past two days, and would like to ask, what armor setup would you guys recommend for it?

• What if I'd leave the outermost, wedged-and-gorgeous layer as Basic Hull, and would add two layers of Advanced Armor lining on the entire inner surface?
• Better to have all three layers advanced?
• Three layers all around might be overkill?
• Have most of the protection in the front?

Size doesn't help recognize a ship's ability between another. Mass is more relevant. What would be the best way to classify ships would be block count, reactor level or overall cost though. Plus how you intend to design your ship and its weapons setup as well as intended chambers changes it.
Anyway, for a setup, you don't need to armor the back, as you'll be mostly facing your opponent and less the sides because no shots will be coming straight to you to the sides, unless you're fighting a swarm of smaller vessels. Meaning that shots will go through a lot of armor block in the length of your ship.
As for what i recommend, i would go for a 10 layers deep on the front with a 2/3 ratio for standard armor and 1/3 ratio for advanced armor. To explain why, i need to explain (again), how armor was designed in our configs :

• Basic armor is an armor with no armor rating but has the most hp per blocks. It makes it a good armor to stop missiles shots however the fact that this block does not have any armor rating means that you won't have the benefit from having armor behind. A block with no armor rating hit means that the armor formula won't be used, even if you have 100 layers of advanced armor behind. It's also good as a layer of internal bulks, because again you want hp you won't be using the armor formula thanks to the systems all around.
• Standard armor is an armor with good hp and some armor rating, making it good as first layers of armor and to tank shots.
• Advanced armor has good armor rating but poor hp, meaning that's it's good to stop shots from doing damage at all but if they do damage they'll get destroyed pretty quickly.

So i'm sure you understand why i am using standard in the front and advanced in the back. The fact that the armor stacks up, you are using the advantage of the advanced armor giving high armor rating and the standard armor having quite high hp per blocks in front to tank shots. And don't use basic armor, except for interiors or internal bulk. Unless that is exactly what you want to go for.

 

[EricBlank]

You know I have wondered, why don't you reduce the mass and hp of basic armor, since it's useless for defense anyway?

Might as well be useless and lightweight

 

[Zoolimar]

-What if I'd leave the outermost, wedged-and-gorgeous layer as Basic Hull, and would add two layers of Advanced Armor lining on the entire inner surface?
-Better to have all three layers advanced?

Bad. You want the first layer hit by cannons and beams to be all armour (Standard or Advanced) from start to finish. You can add a layer of Basic as innermost layer.

If you are using Basic outside the main armour layer made out of Advanced/Standard armour you should make it docked and leave a gap of 5-10 meters so it can effectively catch missiles. Otherwise no need to bother with it.

On the other hand wrapping systems in 1-2 layers of basic (interior already does it) is good for soaking up acid damage from a first couple of penetrating shots.

Three layers all around might be overkill?

No, it's nowhere near overkill. This is just enough to make drones used by Whammy take 2-3 shots to penetrate your armour properly. So it's enough to defend against small drones but anything serious will punch through. For actual protection at the size of your ship you need 10-20 layers of advanced armour. So sloping it (as you already did) and making bulkheads in the nose of the ship is the way to go.

Have most of the protection in the front?

That depends on the role of your ship. Close combat ships will probably want the front to be the most armoured part and may very well skim on everything else. Escort ships that are designed to fight drone/fighter groups need all around defences because they 100% will be surrounded in combat. And so on.

 

[Zoolimar]

You know I have wondered, why don't you reduce the mass and hp of basic armor, since it's useless for defense anyway?

Because right now it is the best defence against missiles. Which is related to it having the most HP per block. If you say cut it in half mass and HP wise it will make it worse against missiles per block. Though it will allow you to make two anti missile shells instead of one for the same mass.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Hey guys, I recently found the time and mood to try to build a nice QuickFire frigate.

I've been working on a ~150 long hull for the past two days, and would like to ask, what armor setup would you guys recommend for it?

• What if I'd leave the outermost, wedged-and-gorgeous layer as Basic Hull, and would add two layers of Advanced Armor lining on the entire inner surface?
• Better to have all three layers advanced?
• Three layers all around might be overkill?
• Have most of the protection in the front?

Might as well ask now, is there a way to download config files from your GitHub, instead of copy-pasting text content?

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At 150 meters, (and I'm guessing 20k-30k mass when finished) you may want to consider the following.

1) Even with the recent mass reduction of armor in QF, the thickness of armor you're considering is going to drop your speed and turn rate by a substantial amount. I found 15k mass intolerably slow and unwieldy unless I put more than a third of my power grid into thrust.

2) It's not hard to build a cannon or beam weapon that can penetrate 3 layers of adv. armor. I have an 8K mass ship that is specifically designed for that and most likely deeper.

3) QF armor is (by design) set up so that if you protect against one weapon type, you will be vulnerable to others. However, at this scale, it doesn't take much to make a dent in armor with the shields down.

Spoiler

For example, this 400 mass fighter can damage all three armor types. One shot was all it took to get these results vs 3 layers of armor. Get shot by anything bigger and you're looking at a full-on hull breach[/SPOILER


In any case, QF seems to be phasing out the concept of a one-size fits-all META, so my recommendation is that you build different variations of the same ship and tailor your armor, shields and weapons to the kinds of threats you encounter/observe most. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell what those threats will be ahead of time, so reconnaissance, intel and strategy will be the key to success.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

No, it's nowhere near overkill. This is just enough to make drones used by Whammy take 2-3 shots to penetrate your armour properly.

Wow. In before I could even post...

Damn dude,

Are you guys secretly planning your anti-drone strategies against me specifically?

Keptick Heeeeeaaalp!!!

Also, it's just 2 shots now. I've been upgrading.

 

[EricBlank]

Right, forgot the missile thing.

 

[philthy mcnasty]

started playing around with ship creation, and downloaded the zip, and copied the folders over to the game after i installed the dev build.

First thing i discovered: getting the shield bubble around a downloaded shell is tricky. it seems that the size of the ship and the bubble needs to be considered before building the ship. Unless there is a shield mechanic i am missing.

Next thing: cannon beams are still viable and fun.

missile missile however.....

I put those on the front of what i shall name the fail whale test platform. i could not see where they went so i moved forward a bit, and immediately lost my front camera to the explosion caused by running into my own missiles. they move too slow. Is there a way to speed them up that i am not aware of? Otherwise i think the main advantage of those is to add them to a turret that won't hit the ship, as sort of a distraction projectile. I will need to look into the relationship of missile capacity and turrets: does the capacity need to be on the turret or can i have a giant block on the ship?

I am currently messing around with reactor chambers. Not too much information on those. I have one level of jump drive chambers, but i am not sure how to level it up from there.

Not sure if they want experienced players for this initiative, however since i am relearning the game my feedback will sound noobish. I am coming back from the old builds, before aux reactor blocks.

I am liking the power stabilizer blocks. So in the past you had your generator blocks, and capacitor blocks that stored power. You could only generate 2 million power then it got locked behind math and you had to exploit systems to get the power you needed to make cool ships. Essentially it is nothing more than a 100% price increase for a bigger reactor, but it adds hp to the ship.Now, what i think would be nice is if i could connect chambers to that as well. Maybe connect weapon system or shield system effects to the stabilizers? but that will be for a different thread.

Based on my testing a player with no idea what they are doing can jump in, load a hollow shell, and with minimum research into the game start turning it into a ship that moves and shoots.

 

[Nauvran]

missile missile however.....

I put those on the front of what i shall name the fail whale test platform. i could not see where they went so i moved forward a bit, and immediately lost my front camera to the explosion caused by running into my own missiles. they move too slow. Is there a way to speed them up that i am not aware of? Otherwise i think the main advantage of those is to add them to a turret that won't hit the ship, as sort of a distraction projectile. I will need to look into the relationship of missile capacity and turrets: does the capacity need to be on the turret or can i have a giant block on the ship?

missile missile doesnt move at all unless you do before you fire them, they are basically bombs and need an initial momentum to move. Not anything to do with QF but with Schine as they designed it like that.

 

[philthy mcnasty]

missile missile doesnt move at all unless you do before you fire them, they are basically bombs and need an initial momentum to move. Not anything to do with QF but with Schine as they designed it like that.

Thanks for the info. So i guess the best configuration for them is either shooting behind you while you flee from something, or being dropped from a fighter.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Thanks for the info. So i guess the best configuration for them is either shooting behind you while you flee from something, or being dropped from a fighter.

Missile/Missile (Bomb) things to know:

- Unguided: You need to point directly at the target. There is no gimbal, aim assist or anything like that to help you.

- No propulsion. The projectile relies entirely on the inertia generated by your ship's movement in order to move. Effective use requires you to point directly at the target, accelerate (the faster, the better), fire the weapon and then pull off so you don't vaporize the front half of your ship. Alternately, if you're good with rails and logic, you can do something like this...

- Being inertia propelled; aiming these can be tricky since you have limited range and a max speed of 300 meters per second (or 400, if using a speed boost chamber). Also, your aim can be (greatly) thrown off if you are moving along two axes simultaneously (i.e; moving diagnonally).

- Under quickfire configs, you get only 1.5 seconds until the weapons arms. Do not coast with the weapon once it is released or you will cause it to detonate by physical contact. Either slam on the brakes or pull off hard, before you nuke yourself. Do whatever it takes to avoid physically touching the bomb once it's armed.

- These weapons ignore both shields and armor. ...including your own. This makes them ideal for use against stations and large, slow moving ships that would otherwise be near-invincible, due to heavy shield regen. and thick armor. It also increases the likelihood that you'll nuke yourself instead of your target if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[joshspaceboy]

Question: How much of my ships are going to have to be rebuilt from scratch? I have been doing some testing and although I do like the changes that have been made I can’t help but feel I’m going to have to rebuild all my ships, which is actually a whole lot at this point. Gutting out all my systems is one thing but it’s actually the need for increased armor I don’t care for since with most of my builds this would be impossible as they weren’t designed with this in mind. Is there any way to delete just a specific block on your ship? That way I can get rid of all the modules and then put them back in again reupdated. Should I go ahead and fix all my ships or will all this be changed again in the near future? I’m just glad my Titan I’m working on isn’t finished yet so I can still modify it.

 

[Scypio]

Question: How much of my ships are going to have to be rebuilt from scratch?

Every ships.

Is there any way to delete just a specific block on your ship?

In the build menu you have a build tool that can replace specific blocs. You can replace thoses specific blocks with no blocks at all.

 

[philthy mcnasty]

Missile/Missile (Bomb) things to know:

- Unguided: You need to point directly at the target. There is no gimbal, aim assist or anything like that to help you.

- No propulsion. The projectile relies entirely on the inertia generated by your ship's movement in order to move. Effective use requires you to point directly at the target, accelerate (the faster, the better), fire the weapon and then pull off so you don't vaporize the front half of your ship. Alternately, if you're good with rails and logic, you can do something like this...

- Being inertia propelled; aiming these can be tricky since you have limited range and a max speed of 300 meters per second (or 400, if using a speed boost chamber). Also, your aim can be (greatly) thrown off if you are moving along two axes simultaneously (i.e; moving diagnonally).

- Under quickfire configs, you get only 1.5 seconds until the weapons arms. Do not coast with the weapon once it is released or you will cause it to detonate by physical contact. Either slam on the brakes or pull off hard, before you nuke yourself. Do whatever it takes to avoid physically touching the bomb once it's armed.

- These weapons ignore both shields and armor. ...including your own. This makes them ideal for use against stations and large, slow moving ships that would otherwise be near-invincible, due to heavy shield regen. and thick armor. It also increases the likelihood that you'll nuke yourself instead of your target if you don't know what you're doing.

Sounds difficult to use. i will table it for now.

How are turrets made after the weapons 3.0 update and quickfire? i remember in the old days that they could have their own power. Is that still the case or are there some subtle changes that i need to look into?

 

[joshspaceboy]

Every ships.

In the build menu you have a build tool that can replace specific blocs. You can replace thoses specific blocks with no blocks at all.

Thanks that's actually very helpful. Should I go ahead and rebuild them or wait a while. Basically I'm asking if the game is going to drastically change before release again because its really annoying to build them just to have to rebuild them a few months later. When I first started building in 2.0 I was told it was the last time power would be edited but clearly this is not the case although for good reason. If I had known about this 2 months ago I would be in a much better position than I am know, wish I knew about this when you guys first started doing it.

 

[Scypio]

Thanks that's actually very helpful. Should I go ahead and rebuild them or wait a while. Basically I'm asking if the game is going to drastically change before release again because its really annoying to build them just to have to rebuild them a few months later.

I cannot make promises. I will try to keep the power consumption as it is, but as you can see recently there was a mistake in our configs and it got changed just recently when we tested it.
I am sorry if i cannot be more helpful.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Thanks that's actually very helpful. Should I go ahead and rebuild them or wait a while. Basically I'm asking if the game is going to drastically change before release again because its really annoying to build them just to have to rebuild them a few months later. When I first started building in 2.0 I was told it was the last time power would be edited but clearly this is not the case although for good reason. If I had known about this 2 months ago I would be in a much better position than I am know, wish I knew about this when you guys first started doing it.

When it comes to quickfire, 3 words should always come to mind; "Subject To Change"

My advice; If you want to use quickfire and not lose your mind, don't invest in "fleet-wide" refits or you'll just end up RE-refitting it all when they change their minds on something and break all your builds.

I think one or two ships and/or some fighters are enough for testing until they get this all sorted out.

 

[joshspaceboy]

That's what I was thinking. I refitted a few of my ships just now and it's not as hard as I thought it would be although I'm not sure how great they are. For now I'll just build the shells of the ships and do testing.

 

[CharleHazelrink]

I was thinking about this "initiative". From some aspect, we're doing like we do with old power ? Just put as much block we can in the space, and fill up the ship with power, stabilisator or chamber.

So it's like we do before exept we have enhancer block, weapon etc..

I'm wrong ?

 

[philthy mcnasty]

I was thinking about this "initiative". From some aspect, we're doing like we do with old power ? Just put as much block we can in the space, and fill up the ship with power, stabilisator or chamber.

So it's like we do before exept we have enhancer block, weapon etc..

I'm wrong ?

so we are testing a new configuration that is on github, and giving feedback on it. This is more of a hardcore test for balancing out the game.

I like this approach, because it is a bit more organic. We play the game, and we talk about how to tweek the config to make it more balanced.