StarSide Blood and Steel: Season 2

    Master_Artificer

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    Swarmers normally aren't that threatening a weapon. The issue is that B & S is in a locked sector, meaning you can't really outrun the missiles.
    Meh, still not concerned. If I can survive in a 2k mass ship against a 12k mass ship using logic swarms for 3 minutes before system damage causes debuffs, I think I will be fine with more mass on my side to even the fight.

    Its great, they hit you with missiles, you take their shields, they hit you with missiles, you take their shields, they hit you with missiles.....
     

    Matt_Bradock

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    If you don't see the threat of swarm missiles, I suggest you re-watch the first season of Blood and Steel, namely, Sven_The_Slayer's matches. Absolutely steamrolled everyone with his swarm boat and ion beams up until the grand finals where he lost to Thryn by a single hair.
     

    Lecic

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    If you don't see the threat of swarm missiles, I suggest you re-watch the first season of Blood and Steel, namely, Sven_The_Slayer's matches. Absolutely steamrolled everyone with his swarm boat and ion beams up until the grand finals where he lost to Thryn by a single hair.
    And why did he lose? Only because the station was there to soak up the missiles.
     

    Master_Artificer

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    but that was the age of core drilling.

    Now we have armor HP and systems HP, and missile mechanics have been reworked. Granted they still sting, but don't pack the punch or speed of missile beams.
     

    Matt_Bradock

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    but that was the age of core drilling.

    Now we have armor HP and systems HP, and missile mechanics have been reworked. Granted they still sting, but don't pack the punch or speed of missile beams.
    The fact doesn't change that swarm missiles are still a low-cost (energy-wise and block-wise), area damage, self-guided high accuracy weapon system that, uniquely in the game, requires zero aiming from the pilot, and also uniquely in the game, if put on a logic clock, can still accurately fire without human interaction while the pilot can still access a second system (for example, beam or cannon) that requires aiming. Add to that, the sheer amount of missiles fired, that kind of counters the most important anti-missile countermeasure, a point defense turret grid.

    oh, and unlike any other player-fired guided missile in Starmade, ignores jammers.
     
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    The rules for B&S are set. Everyone is free to adapt to the given situation as they please.

    I think everyone agrees that if a variety of configs would be wanted the rules would be different.
     

    Master_Artificer

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    The fact doesn't change that swarm missiles are still a low-cost (energy-wise and block-wise), area damage, self-guided high accuracy weapon system that, uniquely in the game, requires zero aiming from the pilot, and also uniquely in the game, if put on a logic clock, can still accurately fire without human interaction while the pilot can still access a second system (for example, beam or cannon) that requires aiming. Add to that, the sheer amount of missiles fired, that kind of counters the most important anti-missile countermeasure, a point defense turret grid.

    oh, and unlike any other player-fired guided missile in Starmade, ignores jammers.
    For some reason, I feel like you described all of these beam missile turrets that I have been amassing for several days now, quite perfectly.
    So much so, that I will take extra precaution when loading the racks of cores to not spell the word "chaph"... Chaffee Chafe "Chaff" wrong and make a fool out of myself, for that would be embarrassing.

    But you maybe right, I will remain cautious and possibly reevaluate this threat in the days to come.
     

    Matt_Bradock

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    For some reason, I feel like you described all of these beam missile turrets that I have been amassing for several days now, quite perfectly.
    So much so, that I will take extra precaution when loading the racks of cores to not spell the word "chaph"... Chaffee Chafe "Chaff" wrong and make a fool out of myself, for that would be embarrassing.

    But you maybe right, I will remain cautious and possibly reevaluate this threat in the days to come.
    Make no mistake, I do think swarm missiles are a situational weapon. Their range and speed is inferior to missile/beam setups, the individual missiles have a lot less impact, they tend to cause horrible friendly fire in fleet battles and I'd never use them to farm pirates off a station because some of the missiles would go for the station and keep spawning new pirate waves, eventually ending with me getting crushed under the sheer amount of pirate ships (or crashing the server).

    Swarm missiles are very situational. Unfortunately, they are made exactly for situations like the one you face as an individual contestant in Blood and Steel.
    - You are locked in the same sector with your opponent, so range does not matter, you cannot be kited.
    - You don't have friendlies to worry about, only hostiles to shoot.
    - Swarm missiles don't give a single damn about your target running jammer or even cloaker.

    In a situation like this, you will figure out the other advantage of swarm missiles compared to, for example, missile/beam setups:
    - A missile/missile/explosive array with 100% support and effect will have the same DPS as a missile/beam/explosive with same block count and support+effect ratios. However, takes a lot less power to fire, and has a lot shorter reload time. Granted, the per-missile damage is lower on the swarm. However, you don't have to manually lock on, and won't be thwarted by jammers.
    - Missile/beam turrets are a good alternative to swarm missiles as long as you have still more than 50% shields on your main ship. When things start getting nasty and shields drop below 50%, turrets will start going down. A ship-mounted logic auto-swarm array will keep firing until the ship's shields drop to 0 and a lucky hit goes through the armor, systems and hits either the main missile computer or the logic. Which, usually, lets you fire a lot longer.
    - The sheer number of missiles launched each volley act as their own chaff, overloading point defense as they did in the first season of Blood and Steel. Each ship Sven_The_Slayer annihilated, had point defense turrets. Mine had 12 of them. Did they have any effect? Not really. Even with shared shields, once you reach the magical 50%, the next swarm that hits you, even if your PD takes out 50% of the missiles, will annihilate your tiny point defense turrets.
     

    Tunk

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    Okay, someone needs to ask.

    Are we using the most recently dropped update, or the previous version?
    If we are using the most recent update let us know asap because I've got a couple of ninja changes to take advantage of the new insanity.
    My ship produces 7.9 MILLION power now, and I am damn well going to overdrive ALL the things.
     
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    Okay, someone needs to ask.

    Are we using the most recently dropped update, or the previous version?
    If we are using the most recent update let us know asap because I've got a couple of ninja changes to take advantage of the new insanity.
    My ship produces 7.9 MILLION power now, and I am damn well going to overdrive ALL the things.
    Same question. Will the tournament happend with the current new mechanics or with the old we designed our ships with?
     

    Matt_Bradock

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    Okay, someone needs to ask.

    Are we using the most recently dropped update, or the previous version?
    If we are using the most recent update let us know asap because I've got a couple of ninja changes to take advantage of the new insanity.
    My ship produces 7.9 MILLION power now, and I am damn well going to overdrive ALL the things.
    Yera that is a really important question. Since a lot of us already submitted blueprints and won't have time to modify them...
     
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    Oh well i guess either tournament at the 12th with the old patch or later with the new patch much later would be my guess.
     
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    counter to swarms confirmed, 6 cloaked armor tanks inbound
    you know swarms don't need vision :p
    But what i really wanted to say was man i love your sig, that "did a battleship sneeze in your general direction" makes my day every time, could we maybe get the image the post before in big so we could actually see what was refered to?
     

    Tunk

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    well 5 hours before deadline, hopefully they don't leave it to last minute to make a announcement again.