Reason for having an interior

[Bannta]

"-beds, chairs, halo pictures, open spaces, etc.... equal luxury items when make people happy in RL...it can be the case for NPC to make sure their bonus it at 100%. So it schema can count the luxury items in a ship and apply a point system pre NPC that is required to create a bonus than we are are in business."

Blocks are already being a counted...my method doesn't require pretty, it just requires a count. = "Kiss"

 

[Lecic]

No, you are just wrong. When all of those other problems are fixed, like they are going to be, it will be more expensive and will only be powerful when you build them right. You want high turn speed? Better sacrifice shields or weapons! You want powerful weapons? Same. Cube ships will become less common because it is inherently more expensive to make a filled box, than something with holes in it. And, like war said, anyone that builds cube ships will abuse this system. This does nothing to rectify any of the problems you listed. Just go away.

Ok, lets have a situation. I have 10,000 assorted blocks for a ship. Do I build a long, traditional battle cruiser, which turns slower and can be more easily taken out in a fight, or a cube, which is more efficient in most ways and can turn much faster?

 

[War Dog]

It used to be that ship maneuverability depended entirely on mass instead of both mass and ship dimension. An old update changed that; and I brought up the issue then too.

So perhaps the easiest way to "balance" that would be to undo that change.

Anywho, the OP may be a s'wit but he does have a point Hm? Take the cube-ship talk elsewhere.

 

[1adog1]

Ok, lets have a situation. I have 10,000 assorted blocks for a ship. Do I build a long, traditional battle cruiser, which turns slower and can be more easily taken out in a fight, or a cube, which is more efficient in most ways and can turn much faster?

You build a small battle cruiser, because you care about having a good looking ship as well as a powerful one. This is the rational behind most ships that people build. (And by most I mean 90% or more)

 

[arrowwolf2]

I was think that when there is a hull breach NPC can be shucked out into space, and could be captured or killed by the attacking ships. Also the player could try to go and picked them up before that happens

 

[rece ktore leczo]

War Dog And these are answers for this post, made by You

http://starmadedock.net/threads/reason-for-having-an-interior.912/#post-11619

http://starmadedock.net/threads/reason-for-having-an-interior.912/page-2#post-13388

http://starmadedock.net/threads/reason-for-having-an-interior.912/page-2#post-13405

http://starmadedock.net/threads/reason-for-having-an-interior.912/page-2#post-13559

quote from the OP:

Basic idea:

• once the turret's/ship's stats are greater than certain threshold, additional blocks have reduced stats
• this thresholds could be raised by placing station for NPCs

Extended idea:

• threshold are specific to each ship system and so are stations

 

[1adog1]

I was think that when there is a hull breach NPC can be shucked out into space, and could be captured or killed by the attacking ships. Also the player could try to go and picked them up before that happens

I think the devs have a pressurization system in mind that should accomplish that.

 

[MrFURB]

I'm going to forgo implanting my own opinion of a good system and just go by what is healthiest for promoting positive play habits in-game. This is all bearing in mind that the future of Starmade is extremely open, and modding will be a major source of gameplay customization. Most people tend to think of solutions to problems with the mindset that Starmade isn't going to change which severely limits the variance of ideas. When you think of a solution to a problem and want to share it, consider how it interacts with possible features within the future. The more mechanics that interact with each other, the better.

The method of requiring interiors via placed objects is unworkable. In a game that allows players to put any object nearly anywhere, you'd have to come up with hundreds of restricting rules in order to make such a system actually do what it was set out to accomplish. As long as the vessel is combat-oriented, some people will attempt to get every ounce of value out of their vessel by minimizing interior space in favor of useful blocks. Requiring stations is just requiring them to line their one hallway with an NPC station block instead of a shield block.

I believe that the solution to needing at least rudimentary interiors in ship will have more to do with why one would need rudimentary interiors in real-life spacecraft; you would have enough objects within the ship that required interaction that either mounting them all over every wall or having their own rooms to keep them organized would be a necessity. Maybe on a frigate or medium-sized ship you could get by with a traditional fighter-style cockpit/room. On a capital ship you will have to worry about physical storage for hauling loot, interior or exterior docks and turrets with access hatches, manually operated mobile factory units for replicating basic/emergency supplies out of trash, a large multitude of computers, and any of a billion sci-fi themed interactables that could be added between now and release.

Restrictions will always be fought against and maneuvered around by emergent gameplay. What might end up working better is making an interior be convenient and useful enough that even PvP-minded players will want to have one.

 

[Vyor]

It used to be that ship maneuverability depended entirely on mass instead of both mass and ship dimension. An old update changed that; and I brought up the issue then too.

So perhaps the easiest way to "balance" that would be to undo that change.

Anywho, the OP may be a s'wit but he does have a point Hm? Take the cube-ship talk elsewhere.

Agreed... indeed, this would balance most ships.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

MrFURB I have to disagree There aren't needed many restrictions for this system. Stations would be needed to be built with 1x2x1 space in front of them, beds would require 2 blocks with 1 block 2x1x1 space above them and that's it.
If players would build stations or beds which aren't accessible for the NPC to walk in front of them, then NPC would not get there and won't work. If corridors would be too narrow, causing NPCs to stuck in them, then player would need to make them wider.
The most problematic factor would be path finding for crew members, but it would be a problem even without this system.

And again - i do not want to order players to build huge interiors in their warships. I know that the priority would be to place system blocks, not decorating the interior, but this idea more or less balance interiors not existing, with dense stations and bed and with plenty of space.


Ships without the interior would have more blocks, wouldn't be sensitive for loosing crew/stations and wouldn't require gathering crew but would have lower stats. Defending this type of ship against invading groups would be nearly impossible.

Ships with dense interior would have the best efficiency, because they would have full potential (no stats debuff) and wouldn't waste space, but also would be sensitive for destroying stations/bed, so critically injuring them would be pretty easy. Invading this ships would be relatively easy, especially after critically damaging the ship.

Ships with bigger interior wouldn't have as good stats as the ships without or with little of interior, but could last longer in battles, because destroying many stations would require destroying much more parts of the ship. Also they could have surplus of the NPCs/stations. Invading party would have a hard task when trying to fully seize the ship.



And You've mentioned additional things to interact with while on ship while in astronaut mode, which is part of the extended idea

 

[Bannta]

i would like to see that if you have npc assigned to your ship and your core is in overload...the core will not count down to explode until NPCs have been killed off.

 

[Vyor]

MrFURB I have to disagree There aren't needed many restrictions for this system. Stations would be needed to be built with 1x2x1 space in front of them, beds would require 2 blocks with 1 block 2x1x1 space above them and that's it.
If players would build stations or beds which aren't accessible for the NPC to walk in front of them, then NPC would not get there and won't work. If corridors would be too narrow, causing NPCs to stuck in them, then player would need to make them wider.
The most problematic factor would be path finding for crew members, but it would be a problem even without this system.

And again - i do not want to order players to build huge interiors in their warships. I know that the priority would be to place system blocks, not decorating the interior, but this idea more or less balance interiors not existing, with dense stations and bed and with plenty of space.


Ships without the interior would have more blocks, wouldn't be sensitive for loosing crew/stations and wouldn't require gathering crew but would have lower stats. Defending this type of ship against invading groups would be nearly impossible.

Ships with dense interior would have the best efficiency, because they would have full potential (no stats debuff) and wouldn't waste space, but also would be sensitive for destroying stations/bed, so critically injuring them would be pretty easy. Invading this ships would be relatively easy, especially after critically damaging the ship.

Ships with bigger interior wouldn't have as good stats as the ships without or with little of interior, but could last longer in battles, because destroying many stations would require destroying much more parts of the ship. Also they could have surplus of the NPCs/stations. Invading party would have a hard task when trying to fully seize the ship.



And You've mentioned additional things to interact with while on ship while in astronaut mode, which is part of the extended idea

You haven't done anything. People that build interiors already don't need this, people that don't will abuse it. You aren't fixing anything.

 

[Aecetym]

You haven't done anything. People that build interiors already don't need this, people that don't will abuse it. You aren't fixing anything.

I'll have to agree with Vyor.

Ppl that build interiors don't do it because they want boosts and won't stop building them. Ppl that don't build them have most likely reasons not to, but forcing this groep in building them with a need to have balancing mechanism will only result in abuse and cheap ways around it.

To me you build an interior because it feels it should have one and it can make a ship look that much better, not because of some mechanic that tells you to build one.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

I'll have to agree with Vyor.

Ppl that build interiors don't do it because they want boosts and won't stop building them. Ppl that don't build them have most likely reasons not to, but forcing this groep in building them with a need to have balancing mechanism will only result in abuse and cheap ways around it.

To me you build an interior because it feels it should have one and it can make a ship look that much better, not because of some mechanic that tells you to build one.

From my experience, so far while building combat ships i didn't even considered building an interior, because that would be only a waste of space and adding useless mass, slowing my ship down and resulting in disadvantage in battle.
And i want to build interiors, because i feel that ships need them and i feel that many other players can relate to this, but i don't want to have disadvantage against ships built without interior. Also i don't want to have an advantage against such ships, i simply would like to not be crippled because i've put more effort in designing and building a ship.

Anyway, i have to repeat myself - this idea is not to order players to build interiors, but to not give the disadvantage for players which are building ones. It would be still possible to build whatever ship we want, with whatever interior we want (or even without one) and it all would be balanced the way i've written few posts earlier.

If You do not like the way i see it would be balanced, then please comment with more specific concerns.


Vyor I feel that many players building and interior wish that it would serve some purpose. They are building interiors, because they want to have ship, which they always wanted to build, but i'm pretty sure that lower stats of their ships hurt them anyway.

 

[Vyor]

From my experience, so far while building combat ships i didn't even considered building an interior, because that would be only a waste of space and adding useless mass, slowing my ship down and resulting in disadvantage in battle.
And i want to build interiors, because i feel that ships need them and i feel that many other players can relate to this, but i don't want to have disadvantage against ships built without interior. Also i don't want to have an advantage against such ships, i simply would like to not be crippled because i've put more effort in designing and building a ship.

wtf? Tell me... how does making something porus increase mass???

 

[rece ktore leczo]

By putting hulls as the corridors/rooms blocks plus decorative blocks plus if i want to compensate for the used space, volume of my ship is bigger and so is the surface of my ship covered with (so far) useless hulls. It's not a big factor for small interiors, but bigger ones require a lot of hulls.

 

[Vyor]

By putting hulls as the corridors/rooms blocks plus decorative blocks plus if i want to compensate for the used space, volume of my ship is bigger and so is the surface of my ship covered with (so far) useless hulls. It's not a big factor for small interiors, but bigger ones require a lot of hulls.

Hull and other blocks weigh the same... besides, I think you can't do math at this point...

 

[ltmauve]

Care to explain that? The decorative blocks needed for an interior add nothing to the stats, while adding mass. In other words, once you add RP to a ship, it takes away from mass that could be used for systems.

 

[Aecetym]

From my experience, so far while building combat ships i didn't even considered building an interior, because that would be only a waste of space and adding useless mass, slowing my ship down and resulting in disadvantage in battle.
And i want to build interiors, because i feel that ships need them and i feel that many other players can relate to this, but i don't want to have disadvantage against ships built without interior. Also i don't want to have an advantage against such ships, i simply would like to not be crippled because i've put more effort in designing and building a ship.

An interior isn't a disadvantage at all, as long as you don't go overdrive for it's size or dimentions. And an interior can also add space/armor to the ship instead of taking it away.

At some point ships become so large you missing a few 1000 more shields won't really matter anyway. Thinking you would miss them is in some way you just being greedy and/or lazy rather then being 'efficient' with space.

Anyway, i have to repeat myself - this idea is not to order players to build interiors, but to not give the disadvantage for players which are building ones. It would be still possible to build whatever ship we want, with whatever interior we want (or even without one) and it all would be balanced the way i've written few posts earlier.

Whenever oxygen would be introduced and hopefully with a balanced system interiors should be more usefull. The rest would be me repeating what I wrote above.

If You do not like the way i see it would be balanced, then please comment with more specific concerns.

I did, I don't think it needs balancing at all as to me it isn't even an issue. I would even go as far to say the combat aspect of SM isn't even fun due to the cheap way core mechanics work, now that's an issue. Turrets/AI are snipers, lots of AMCs firing at a single point, .... all damage taken during battle can be found around the core or straight to it. The rest of the ship will end up undamaged.

Vyor I feel that many players building and interior wish that it would serve some purpose. They are building interiors, because they want to have ship, which they always wanted to build, but i'm pretty sure that lower stats of their ships hurt them anyway.

Don't really need it to have purpose as that would mean you need set predesigns in the game for it to fuction or limitations. More like being able to interact with it more would be nice.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

An interior isn't a disadvantage at all, as long as you don't go overdrive for it's size or dimentions. And an interior can also add space/armor to the ship instead of taking it away.

At some point ships become so large you missing a few 1000 more shields won't really matter anyway. Thinking you would miss them is in some way you just being greedy and/or lazy rather then being 'efficient' with space.

So far it is always a disadvantage. In the future, as the HP system would get overhauled, most likely making hull blocks useful, the impact on the ships stats would be lowered. But still, any not occupied space is a disadvantage.

Usually the bigger the ship is, the bigger the interior. Making 2x2x50 corridor with walls from hulls take space for 600 blocks ( (2x2+8)x50). It's not so much, but usually there isn't only one corridor, but multiple of them (and often bigger ones) + bridge + sleeping rooms + medic bay + airlocks + core room + emergency exit + etc. which combined can take much more space.


I know that most of them aren't necessary and are basically for decoration, but once this idea got implemented, they would actually have a purpose to exist.

And this suggestion wouldn't have so many players supporting it, if they also weren't thinking that interiors give a disadvantage.

Whenever oxygen would be introduced and hopefully with a balanced system interiors should be more usefull. The rest would be me repeating what I wrote above.

Oxygen would be a nice addition, but this system alone wouldn't solve anything.

I did, I don't think it needs balancing at all as to me it isn't even an issue. I would even go as far to say the combat aspect of SM isn't even fun due to the cheap way core mechanics work, now that's an issue. Turrets/AI are snipers, lots of AMCs firing at a single point, .... all damage taken during battle can be found around the core or straight to it. The rest of the ship will end up undamaged.

Core drilling wouldn't be a thing in the future (most likely) and this suggestion also gives an ability to target stations of specific systems, which gives way for more tactical approach in battle. I think combat done this way would be much more fun.

Pin-point accuracy of turrets isn't a problem which this system is trying to solve.

Don't really need it to have purpose as that would mean you need set predesigns in the game for it to fuction or limitations. More like being able to interact with it more would be nice.

Set predesigns? If someone wants to have fully functional interior, according to this suggestion, he needs:

• beds/cryopads, stations, crew
• corridors which are connected and are leading to the core room
• corridors leading to big turrets for turrets to have un-nerf
• other functional blocks for astronaut mode

I don't think it's much and all of these (at least for me) makes perfect sense that combined make fully functional interior of the ship.
Corridors connected to one big web makes it easier for invaders to capture the ship (which could be nearly impossible without this requirement) and to some degree forbid abusing the system by building multiple, disconnected 2x2x2 rooms with beds and stations.

I've mentioned additional functional blocks in the OP because they are pretty important at making functional interior, although they would most likely get implemented anyway.



Anyway, i think that our disagreement is mostly based on different opinions about impact of the interiors on the ship.
And i can say it with full belief that interiors so far are always useless and even implementing more functional blocks, oxygen system, or changing HP mechanism would make them only slightly less useless, but players want them to have actual purpose in game.

Implementing this system have few benefits and i don't know, about 1 drawback in form of some need to change build of the ship and recruit the crew.