Poll for FTL travel

[1adog1]

I have only i word for that this it´s an alpha game with too many things that must be BALANCED.



Reading that i think you don´t know how the real word works, but for sure internet things usually go in the way you describe, and don´t worry, i dedicate to make pre-campaign about change certain things that I see in the game, do not think that's the only one who saw it the wrong way, as I said several posts ago, when the logic gates appear, I will apply some ideas that I have in mind unbalance the game in combat for the Stuffed Turkeys ships.



Yep, there are another treath to talk about economy, but for sure that´s not make fear to some players at this moment.



Really can say that? I love stuffed turkeys pilots too predictable.

Capital ships with more than triple power tanks than shields and your nice pseudo shotgun at the prow and some missiles to finish your prey.

No power tanks -> no decent dps, Is that what you call vital systems?

I know exactly how the world works. Do you know why America pulled out of the Vietnam war? Because the people stopped supporting it. Do you know why Queen Elizabeth never helped the south in the American Civil War? Because they people didn't support it. Do you know why Call of Duty started failing as a franchise? Because... the... people... stopped... supporting... it! System heat will never be put into StarMade because the people don't support it.

No one has ever made a legit capital class ship without interiors. Very little people have made capital class ships AT ALL. Remember a capital ship is Ten MILLION blocks minimum. That's AT LEAST a 1000x100x100 block ship! No one would construct such a ship without putting SOME pride into it. If you've put 10 million blocks into a ship, you deserve for it to look the way YOU want, and you deserve to have an invincible ship.

 

[Tacotown99]

my opinion would be something like the Warp from 40K. It's kind of like the nether from MC. you can Break open this ream, and then use it to quickly travel to the place you want. But it would be dangerous. lots of ... monsters would fill it, and they deplete your shields, evenly killing your ship. this would encourage people to not abuse it, and you could add a cool down too. i would go ageist nav beacons in the other ream, to add a bit of exploration to the system, kind of like skyrim.

 

[Tacotown99]

ill give you guys a link (prepare to enter hell)
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Immaterium

 

[Lecic]

Well, I think Arkudo's heat system is a good idea.

 

[RedDragonflyxx]

Ship Based
OK, I think that there should be a (insert technobabble name here "tachyon") field/particles/radiation/energy(/not having normality if you know what Calibri's title means) that builds up as you jump, this field dissipates over time and facilitates FTL jumps, weapons fire will disturb this field before shields go down, (perhaps shields reduce damage to a certain point)too much disturbance and your ship can't jump/may be damaged by jumps. This disturbance will not dissipate the field faster as that would get exploited, when you are no longer attacked jumping becomes possible again. Ship design does not affect this dissipation, but mass does, but you can build damping systems to reduce the energy produced/dissipated over time, this would require a significant amount of damping to be efficient, not as bad as cloaking but requiring moderate sacrifices (for scout ships and specialized cruisers, they must be able to fight pirates though) Eventually capitol ships cannot realistically make more than one emergency jump every (long time frame) and have to use jump gates to move long distances. You can also track FTL jumps and follow via their portal if you're quick, sublight or your own FTL drive (maybe have a speed enhancement to get there faster with a larger cooldown)

Gate Based
Do you want to get around fast but still want big guns? Well the solution is here! To go long distances quickly, you can build a jump gate for long range/easier travel, but first you need to make the gates using expensive portal (expander) and capacitor (duration) blocks (maybe one in the air like in Halo 3) this system also needs energy to recharge the portal, more energy means that the portal can be activated more often, you can extend the duration and size at the expense of recharge time, a larger portal allows more mass to go through before shutdown, duration gives you more time to send a fleet through. I could see alliances setting these up and charging tolls for passage/locking people out of their moneymaker system in sector 344,20,-275 (a light fuel load on each activation of portals perhaps?) People can hitch a ride on others open portals or shoot them to shut the field down so they need defense as well. Also allows near-instantaneous travel.

Key Points
Ship Based
*Every jump produces an energy field, too much energy and your ship can't jump/gets damaged when jumping
*Your ship's field is VERY vulnerable to weapons fire, this prevents jumping for a short time as well
*You can increase speed of jumps with enhancers, or you can reduce the energy field with dampers
*You can follow others through their portals if you are close enough, or you can trace their jump destination
*Capital ships need to use gates or have massive numbers of dampers due to their mass
*If you want a good FTL ship, you can make it with many dampers and speed boosters

Gate Based
*Easier travel
*Vulnerable to weapons fire
*High-speed jumps
*Expensive
*Can increase mass/time limit with enhancements
*Portal jumping is possible
*Fees can be charged/use can be restricted
*Good for fleets and alliances
*May need maintenance/fuel

 

[1adog1]

Seriusly i say the world not the U.S.A., if you want use that to your argumentation, what the hell was thats? http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog...-occupy-wall-street-protesters-post-manifest/ nobody changes nothing. As i tell you, you are correct at internet rules, but REAL WORLD, unhoppefully, don´t works as you said.



I think there are only a pair of server that can accept that type o size ships, you play soloed?

Yes I mostly play solo, but I know any server with 2+ GB of RAM can support capital ships with little or no lag.

 

[onetimetac64]

why not both the point schema seems to move to is that the game style and such should be crafted bu the player he provides a universe with laws that we can mold so why not have both capable have gates for FTL for both ships and players on planets or engines that drain mass energy and require no gate

 

[Fwyrl]

Well if we want to be in any way realistic here, we need to realize that exceeding the speed of is breaking a law of physics (relatively). Under the law, it states that to travel to the speed of light would require infinite energy. I don't know if you've ever tried to break a law of physics, but it has been done, and it requires a crap TON of energy. I think FTL drives should be made accesable to both ships (in the form of a hyperdrive, warp core, etc.) and stations (stargate, etc.). In both cases there would be a required "activation energy", relative to the size of the ship or stargate which is being activated, which would drain 100% of the ship's or station's power until the energy requirement was met. Coordinates would be set by a computer connected to the system, and it would take 1-5 seconds to traverse each sector depending on the size of the ship and size of the drive (can we please change speed from Kilometers per hour to something in any way relative to the speed of light).

We're not breaking physics, we're bending space, but not exceeding the speed of light. Look up wormholes and warp drives.

 

[Fwyrl]

Why not just put a 5minute cool down on the hyperdrive block? Perhaps for the starting jump it requires 100k energy or whatever to activate, so big ships will have no problem having one on board, and smaller ships use jump gates and beacons. Either way, it's going to be another 5 minutes before the hyperdrive block can be used again.

The reason I based it on energy is because then you can reduce the CD, and also, then you're practically helpless while it's charging. (unless you have immense power gen)

 

[Fwyrl]

I would go for a system like the game Tachyon - The Fringe. Allowing the construction of Gateways that are only usable by fighters/bombers... maximum size to a corvette perhaps... That might give them some importance, since today they are worthless, unfortunately.

Huge ships would have the ability to FTL travel by themselves, but with a very, very huge cool-down. Perhaps a minimum waiting time of one hour, maximum to three hours. Having a certain block in the ship may let the recharge become quicker, depending on the quantity, ship mass, or even how they are built (like the power gen. and the thrusters today).

Maybe it might be fair to create a counter-measure for a big ship going FTL, to prevent someone to flee every single time.

The devs have specifically mentioned that there are rebalanced in the future to make fighters, etc. more useful/viable. In addition, you can fly anywhere in starmade in 1 hour, even if the speed cap is only 60 m/s. This would remove the point of FTL.

 

[Fwyrl]

What about the ability to cause damage to "vital systems" through shields. For example, the ability to temporarily disable a ships weapons with a well placed shot while the shields of a ship are still up. The same system could be implemented for FTL Drive.

The thing about making it a system like the weapons system, is that you could sneak onto an enemy ship, and start an emergency warp, which could potentially destroy it, or at least get it out of the way. You would have time to get out, and it would be helpless while the FTL system charged up, or ran it's CD, or whatever. Then it warps, and you may or may not receive horrific damage to your ship (depending on your luck).

 

[Fwyrl]

I'm bored of seeing capital ships with only one door and a hallway that leads to the core, ships more than 200,000 blocks, ships should be assumed to have at least a couple of rooms for the crew.

But lamers players prefer to have a little more shields or weapons or energy, to have more chances in combat.

Adding heat to the game makes the need for ventilation corridors inside the ship, would make them more realistic, and not just stuffed turkeys, some with cube form.

The devs already solved this too. There's crew members, remember?

 

[Vakna]

I like the system where you have the mass relay/jump gates for long distance travel, but still allow ships to be fitted with FTL drives for shorter distance, faster travel at the cost of fuel.

Basically the same FTL system as Mass Effect.

 

[Fwyrl]

Yep, i think i´ll explain why the heat system on the treath, atleast i´ll try, and isn´t the same that only crew system.

The heat system its to make cube stuffed turkeys ship type less usefull.

Actually, "turkey" ships, as you call them, are very abnormal, and usually, quite inefficient, and very early builds. Most of the truly big ships I've run into had hallways, engine rooms, crew quarters, docking bays, a bridge, things like that. In addition, a heat system would make the game MUCH laggyer, as it would add an extra thing to constantly calculate and keep track of.

Also, big "chunk" ships turn REALLY slowly - A big disadvantage.

 

[NeonSturm]

I like the system where you have the mass relay/jump gates for long distance travel, but still allow ships to be fitted with FTL drives for shorter distance, faster travel at the cost of fuel.

Basically the same FTL system as Mass Effect.

But this does not say anything about: stations, very many medium-large ships in one sector.

 

[Fwyrl]

But this does not say anything about: stations, very many medium-large ships in one sector.

Huh?

 

[Fwyrl]

Re-post, because I changed some things, and cleared some stuff up.
====================================================
I believe that FTL should be both ship-based and beacon-based.

In order to use a beacon, a ship would need an on-board system, the size of which would determine the amount of power that the FTL system could hold, and power fill rate. Larger ships would require more power to warp.

The FTL works similarly to weapons systems, in that there's the computer, and the system blocks. Also, the FTL system can be controlled by both the ship's captain, and/or anyone in the FTL computer (same as weps).

There are two types of computer for the FTL system
-Warp Beacons are one one, they can only be put on stations, and act as a waypoint; a destination, but also necessary to jump to most other beacons. They are named, and also have sector listed, so that you can find the one you want.
-Warp computers are the ship's FTL computer, and they control the destination of the warp.

Each FTL system block holds 50,000 e, and both the Warp Beacon and Warp Computer hold 200,000 e.
All warp system blocks and computers absorb 10,000 e/s.
The Warp Beacon determines the access bubble for the Beacon Jump, similar to the way the shop's access bubble is centered on the shop's center, only with a bigger range on the beacon.

There would be three types of jump:

1- Beacon Jumps
-Beacon to beacon
-Ship cost: About 1,000e/1 mass
-Completely safe
-Station cost: 1,000e/1 meter for both stations + Size Penalty
-If the ship or station runs out of energy, the jump does not occur, and no energy is drained.
-If the station you're jumping to is destroyed while the jump is charging, the jump energy stored will just disappear.
-If you leave the access bubble of the gate, then the stored energy dissipates, and the jump is canceled.

2- Emergency Jumps
-??? to ???
-Selects a random location within your possible jump sphere (margin of error of 50%)
-If you warp into a collision, it just deletes the part of the ship inside the collision. (If the core is deleted and the player is inside, the player is killed, and the ship explodes instantly.)
-Ship cost: About 5k/1 mass + additional penalty for ship size + penalty for distance jumped
-If your onboard FTL system can't hold enough power for the jump, (1/3 chance) it starts pulling from your normal power storage, when that runs out, bad things happen. (Warp tunnel collapse, things like that. Pieces of ship are damaged or missing, player may be killed, ship may be deleted, etc.)

3- Warp Jump
-??? to Beacon
-A safe jump, from space to a node, using your ship as the other node
-Your ship shoulders the energy price of both the ship, and the sending beacon.
-If the node you're teleporting to is gone, preform an emergency warp instead.
-The destination node is hardwired in an expensive block, linked to the Warp Computer. To set a warp to the block, activate it while in range of the node.

For all jumps:
-Stations use energy based on the size of the bounding box of the ship they're transporting. Eg. a 100 by 120 by 350 ship would require 4,200,000 e for both stations, on top of the distance cost.
-Ships will be quite venerable during charge up, as they will have little, if any, remaining e/s after the FTL system starts draining energy (it has top priority)
-Station FTL systems recharge over time, constantly filling, but ship FTL systems only charge when the ship is jumping.
-A safe jump (Warp Jump, or Beacon Jump) can be canceled at no cost, but an emergency jump cannot be canceled.
-Ships loose all shields and 50% remaining power stored during a jump. (rece ktore lecoz's idea - I stole it)
-Any entity in the gravity field of the ship, or docked to it, counts towards the energy calculations, and would be warped along with the ship.
-For any jump, a station must allow the connection. Connection settings can be set per faction, distance and player.
-Any stations that do not allow you, will not show up on your menu.
-If your Warp Computer or the Warp Beacon are destroyed while you're jumping, the jump is canceled, and the stored energy dissipates as particles.

Clearing up some things:
-Beacons are just beacons. All the limitations lie in the FTL system on the ship and station.
-The same FTL system blocks are used for both the station and ship.
-After the ship warps, it is placed, using the same logic code as buying a ship from the shop, to prevent lag spikes.

The Point of These Things
-You would have to have a good defense system for a jump gate, meaning that you couldn't just put up a jump gate anywhere, or quickly.
-The charge-up time ensures that no-one can battle jump, but emergency jumps give you a way out of really bad situations (for a price).
-Your faction can have a private jump network, that only they can use, but it would be expensive.
-A ship's jump time could be reduced by having energysupply beams from the station, but only up to a point.
-It is possable to force a ship to emergency FTL, if that system is compromised. Espionage!
-Part of the station charge being based off of ship dimensions is because you're opening a wormhole, not using light-travel.
-The reason the ship needs energy is because it has to protect itself while in the gravity well of a long-distance wormhole.
-You loose shields because of the gravity as well, and also so that you protect your station, and can't just warp-jump into combat.
-I left the ship cost at linear increase because I want all ships to be able to jump. That's why I also made the computer hold energy. Even the smallest fighter can jump, if it needs to.
-The gate is there to prevent battle warping, and also to effect the dynamics of civilizations. in Starmade. People will settle (relatively) close to a warp gate, most of the time, so that they can use it whenever they want. It also prevents everyone from warping to some far-away corner of the universe, and never meeting anyone ever again. It would also give an important resource for factions to control. You canalways find a new planet, station, whatever, but warp gates are not so easy to replace.
-The 10K e/s fill rate of the FTL system means it would be difficult (if at all possible) and very inefficient, to make a ship able to operate while charging a warp.
-The size cost for stations means that stations may also limit the size of the ship going through, to prevent blackouts, where the station is unable to warp a ship.



Some math:
Standard jump with a 50m wide, 75m tall, 125m long cargo ship:

Beacon Jump:

For the stations:
Distance cost: 16 sectors (star system width) = 16 sectors*1,000 m / sector (sector width)*1,000 e /m = 16,000,000 e or 16M e
Ship dimensions cost: 468,750 e
Total FTL jump cost: 16,468,750 e for both stations.

For the ship:
1,000 e/ mass * 0.1 mass/block (most ship blocks) * (468750/2 blocks, estimate) = 23,437,500

Average ship generation for a ship that size: 500K-1M e/s = 24s-47s charge up time, and need 465 system blocks, and 1 computer, and would pull ~5M e/s from the ship.

Warp Jump:
Distance cost: 16 sectors (star system width) = 16 sectors*1,000 m / sector (sector width)*1,000 e /m = 16,000,000 e or 16M e
Ship dimensions cost: 468,750 e
Mass cost: 1,000 e/ mass * 0.1 mass/block (most ship blocks) * (468750/2 blocks, estimate) = 23,437,500
Total: 39,906,250 e.

Average ship generation for a ship that size: 500K-1M e/s = 40s-80s charge up time, and need 795 system blocks, and 1 computer, and would pull 7.96M e/s from the ship.

 

[ltmauve]

The thing about having the station cost based on the dimensions of the ship is that is a full discrimination against any ship that is not a box. Doing a mass-based cost would be fairer.

 

[Fwyrl]

The thing about having the station cost based on the dimensions of the ship is that is a full discrimination against any ship that is not a box. Doing a mass-based cost would be fairer.

I don't see why not, I'll try to figure out some numbers

 

[RedDragonflyxx]

Arkudo Can you just make a separate thread on why stuffed ships are so horrible already? This is an FTL discussion here. (no offense)
Beyond that I think that a good FTL tracking system, upgradeable drives (speed, distance, cooldown) and a soft cooldown that keeps you from making too many jumps consecutively in a short time and stationary gates that work better for ships that are too small/big for a practical drive setup would allow faster travel and balance PVP (I wrote this in greater detail on page 5 if you need clarification)