Poll for FTL travel

[Lecic]

Arkudo Can you just make a separate thread on why stuffed ships are so horrible already? This is an FTL discussion here. (no offense)
Beyond that I think that a good FTL tracking system, upgradeable drives (speed, distance, cooldown) and a soft cooldown that keeps you from making too many jumps consecutively in a short time and stationary gates that work better for ships that are too small/big for a practical drive setup would allow faster travel and balance PVP (I wrote this in greater detail on page 5 if you need clarification)

But their heat system ties heavily into balancing FTL jumps, by making it quickly overheat your ship if you aren't careful.

 

[Vyor]

But their heat system ties heavily into balancing FTL jumps, by making it quickly overheat your ship if you aren't careful.

quickly overheat your ship... do we really need to spell out why this is bad?

 

[MrFURB]

How about we try to steer the conversation into a new direction. Instead of making suggestions about individual FTL implementations and mechanics, let's discuss how we can come up with a framework that instead allows server owners enough freedom to make their server have it's own unique form of FTL that's customizable to their needs while still being intuitive.

 

[Lecic]

quickly overheat your ship... do we really need to spell out why this is bad?

Oh, and what would you like the cooldown system for FTL to be? Because for FTL to be balanced, it either needs to have
A) charge up time
B) cool down time

Adding a heat system allows for smarter designing of builds, and makes death cubes obsolete, which I'm sure everyone except the annoying people who build them happy.

***​

I think that FTL should need a decent base power to engage a jump. Probably 100k or more for a jump.
However, I think there should also be warp gates made from block. They would use increasing power depending on the size of the gate. However, they would allow small fighters to travel through. Warp gates would need to be a linked ring of touching "warp gate" blocks, and sufficient power. They should be able to be mounted on either ships or stations.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

Adding a heat system allows for smarter designing of builds, and makes death cubes obsolete, which I'm sure everyone except the annoying people who build them happy.

Death cubes are OP because of turning rates depending on the dimension size of the ship + they have the lowest ratio of surface area to their volume, which is nice as long as the hull blocks are useless and doesn't make the ship any stronger.
Also the distance from any point from their surface to the core is pretty similarly big.

There would be changes, to the thrust/turning and HP system, most likely making cubes as strong as any other ships.
Of course cube ships would be still very easy to build, but if anyone wish to fly around without a style, then it's theirs choice.

Heating system (by Arkudo idea) could be easily abused by building blocks sticking outside of the boundaries of the ship. 100 blocks long stick and i can jump wherever i want.

I think much better idea would be to add blocks which would be responsible for cooling down, maybe their efficiency could be dependent on their number and the surface which they are covering.


But i'd still keep to the idea of not using heat.


MrFURB I think the FTL would be easily adjusted via block config. Players would just need an option to select that once some requirements are met, the FTL can be activated. This requirements could be i.e. some energy stored in FTL blocks for every block of the ship or some cool-down timer after/before using, range of jump, etc. And of course combined requirements.
Also if we could implement another types of resources (heat, fuel, ammo, whatever we wish to call them) and that certain actions would either deplete the store of specific resource or add the number to it, then we would have pleeeentyyyy of various combinations, for thrusters, power gen, weapons, FTL, etc.

 

[Vyor]

Oh, and what would you like the cooldown system for FTL to be? Because for FTL to be balanced, it either needs to have
A) charge up time
B) cool down time

Adding a heat system allows for smarter designing of builds, and makes death cubes obsolete, which I'm sure everyone except the annoying people who build them happy.

***​

I think that FTL should need a decent base power to engage a jump. Probably 100k or more for a jump.
However, I think there should also be warp gates made from block. They would use increasing power depending on the size of the gate. However, they would allow small fighters to travel through. Warp gates would need to be a linked ring of touching "warp gate" blocks, and sufficient power. They should be able to be mounted on either ships or stations.

Yes, a charge time where you can't use weapons, if you take a certain amount of damage the jump cancels. The damage ratio would become smaller as ships get bigger. If the FTL blocks get damage it instantly quits. See, balance.

 

[Lecic]

Yes, a charge time where you can't use weapons, if you take a certain amount of damage the jump cancels. The damage ratio would become smaller as ships get bigger. If the FTL blocks get damage it instantly quits. See, balance.

But then you can't do an emergency jump away from battle, if it takes time to charge, and you can't even use your weapons while it does so.

I would much rather prefer a cool down as opposed to a charge up. With a cool down, you can play tactically, by laying in wait near a frequent FTL drop out point and ambushing them before they can recharge and escape.

Death cubes are OP because of turning rates depending on the dimension size of the ship + they have the lowest ratio of surface area to their volume, which is nice as long as the hull blocks are useless and doesn't make the ship any stronger.
Also the distance from any point from their surface to the core is pretty similarly big.

There would be changes, to the thrust/turning and HP system, most likely making cubes as strong as any other ships.
Of course cube ships would be still very easy to build, but if anyone wish to fly around without a style, then it's theirs choice.

Heating system (by Arkudo idea) could be easily abused by building blocks sticking outside of the boundaries of the ship. 100 blocks long stick and i can jump wherever i want.

I think much better idea would be to add blocks which would be responsible for cooling down, maybe their efficiency could be dependent on their number and the surface which they are covering.


But i'd still keep to the idea of not using heat.

See, but then by adding a 100 block long stick, you increase your dimensions, making yourself turn slower, which removes the bonuses being a compact cube gave you in the first place.

 

[RedDragonflyxx]

I think that a cooldown is better than a charge up IF people can chase you through your jumps, this could be energy based or there could be upgrade blocks that reduce cooldowns or let you go farther/faster, this would make a nice trade off IMO, do you want better weapons or a bigger FTL array? I can imagine cooldowns/charge ups being toggled and their length and upgradeability being changed, upgrade blocks and power consumption could be changed as well. You could also have that soft cooldown that keeps you from infinitely jumping, or make that soft cooldown come into effect on one jump. This shouldn't change code, just values that the code uses.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

See, but then by adding a 100 block long stick, you increase your dimensions, making yourself turn slower, which removes the bonuses being a compact cube gave you in the first place.

Depending on how turning speed would be calculated in the future. My guess is that it would be changed.

I think that a cooldown is better than a charge up IF people can chase you through your jumps

If there would be a way to know where the enemy ship jumped, chasing the enemy could be fun but still a small charge up timer should stay, like 5-10 seconds.

 

[Vyor]

But then you can't do an emergency jump away from battle, if it takes time to charge, and you can't even use your weapons while it does so.

Yes you can! If you are running away from a battle are you really going to be focused on shooting them anyway??? If you ship takes a certain amount, I didn't say any amount, I said a certain amount, the bigger the array, the higher the amount. Hey look, tactics! Do you was your FTL big so you need to take a lot of damage before it fails, but make it easier to hit, or do you want it small and hard to hit, but need a much smaller amount of damage for it to fail. It gives choice, the heat system takes it away.

 

[1adog1]

Yep, i think i´ll explain why the heat system on the treath, atleast i´ll try, and isn´t the same that only crew system.

The heat system its to make cube stuffed turkeys ship type less usefull.

My god you're starting to piss me off. When you start off in starmade, you get 30 hulls, 10 power generators, an antimatter cannon computer, and 10 cannons. If all those parts need ventilation, then HOW do you make a ship that doesn't explode with that?

Also, as I said, most ships nowadays have their vital systems clustered in certain areas of their ship, which is just what you have with real spaceships and warships (the second most comparable thing). If this was implemented, the majority of ships already in game would explode on login. Is that what you want? Is that what the people who made Starmade wants? Thousands of people raging because ships that they've spent months building are exploding as soon as they login? If you don't like people who make stuffed ships, don't play on servers that have those kinds of people on them. In my experience, the majority of larger ships I see have interiors to them, and some of them look pretty damn cool, but NONE of the millions of ships in existence on StarMade are built with component heating in mind! THINK ABOUT IT!

These are my final words on the subject:

If StarMade comes out with component heating, and the 10,000 mass ship that I've spent the past few MONTHS building, with nice interiors, while still being powerful, explodes when I log in to the game, I'm quitting, and deleting every trace of the game on my computer.

I'm sure if you ask around and tell people their ships will overheat and explode if their ships aren't built with component heating in mind, you'll get a very similar answer from them.

---End Transmission---

 

[Lecic]

My god you're starting to piss me off. When you start off in starmade, you get 30 hulls, 10 power generators, an antimatter cannon computer, and 10 cannons. If all those parts need ventilation, then HOW do you make a ship that doesn't explode with that?

Also, as I said, most ships nowadays have their vital systems clustered in certain areas of their ship, which is just what you have with real spaceships and warships (the second most comparable thing). If this was implemented, the majority of ships already in game would explode on login. Is that what you want? Is that what the people who made Starmade wants? Thousands of people raging because ships that they've spent months building are exploding as soon as they login? If you don't like people who make stuffed ships, don't play on servers that have those kinds of people on them. In my experience, the majority of larger ships I see have interiors to them, and some of them look pretty damn cool, but NONE of the millions of ships in existence on StarMade are built with component heating in mind! THINK ABOUT IT!

These are my final words on the subject:

If StarMade comes out with component heating, and the 10,000 mass ship that I've spent the past few MONTHS building, with nice interiors, while still being powerful, explodes when I log in to the game, I'm quitting, and deleting every trace of the game on my computer.

I'm sure if you ask around and tell people their ships will overheat and explode if their ships aren't built with component heating in mind, you'll get a very similar answer from them.

---End Transmission---

It's an alpha. Everything is subject to change.

Anyway, are you not understanding the heat system he's suggesting? You'd have to use them for the things to build up heat and explode, for one.

 

[Vyor]

It's an alpha. Everything is subject to change.

Anyway, are you not understanding the heat system he's suggesting? You'd have to use them for the things to build up heat and explode, for one.

You mean like weapons? Engines? Ftl?

 

[Lecic]

You mean like weapons? Engines? Ftl?

I was saying that nothing would instantly explode on log in. The only things exploding instantly would be death cubes, anyhow.

 

[Vyor]

I was saying that nothing would instantly explode on log in. The only things exploding instantly would be death cubes, anyhow.

Considering how big those are? Some of them look really good as well, just look at this:
http://www.hatfilms.co.uk/blog/145/entry-999-good-bye-social-life/

and look at all of those other borg cubes, those things can look awesome, and probably took a lot of work to make.

 

[Lecic]

Considering how big those are? Some of them look really good as well, just look at this:
http://www.hatfilms.co.uk/blog/145/entry-999-good-bye-social-life/

and look at all of those other borg cubes, those things can look awesome, and probably took a lot of work to make.

That isn't the type of borg cube I'm arguing against, and I'm sure you're aware of that. That cube has an expansive interior and a well made exterior. I'm arguing against the solid cubes with flat faces and a 2x2 corridor to the core.

 

[NeonSturm]

However, I think there should also be warp gates made from block. They would use increasing power depending on the size of the gate. However, they would allow small fighters to travel through.

In StarGate the energy a gate uses increases exponentially to it's size (did they mean diameter or contained area?). That's what Carter or Rodney told the others once they where talking about the big galaxy-crossing Ori-super-gates.

The solution for Puddle-Jumper was, that they have moving parts which make them smaller (at the cost of what?) on demand.

But without moving parts (which would be a great animation for warm-up time or a cool-down before activating extended shields/weaponry after a jump) this would force battle tubes. (yes tubes, not cubes :D)

 

[ltmauve]

I'm not a fan of the "gate" concept. I would prefer a system where a beacon or mothership can "beam" FTL to a ship to let make a jump.

 

[Fwyrl]

Thanks, Arkudo for rescuing the thread

The energy requirements could be changed at a moment's notice, because, the way starmade is going, everything's in the config. The ones I have were just the ones I came up with to see how exactly things would work, and if the calculation methods would scale as I wanted them to.

HURRAY FOR THE CONFIG!

I still need to figure out something to make Emergency Jumps actually useful for gameplay, not just RP... I've got it. When preforming an emergency jump, you're invulnerable while charging, at a cost of a 1/3 chance of damage-potentially devastating-to your ship.

i added some crazy idea i was thinking, ships that go to make the jump to FTL, should have a countdown before taking the leap and anything around this should jump along with the ship.

So you mean that everything near it would be warped at the same time, rather than just the things "linked" to it? Interesting idea, though the logistics of who, and how much, to charge, might get hairy. Also, we have to deal with small ships warping near large ships.

This would prevent you from using the "Emergency Jump" to escape all the enemy ships.

Well, that is one of the functions of the Emergency jump, but your escape comes with an unknown price. It's not the sort of thing you do lightly. You could easily total your ship, die, or loose a lot of money, depending on your luck (you could escape unscathed, but it would be very bad for you if you made a habit out of it). This is the sort of thing you do if it's escape-or-die, Help-I'm-stuck-in-a-sun. That sort of thing.

 

[RedDragonflyxx]

Ship based: Slower with soft cooldown and easy jump tracking. Requires medium ship and can be upgraded. Station based: FAST with small cooldown, good for ships too small to have a jump drive or too big to have a fast cooldown.