Poll for FTL travel

[rece ktore leczo]

IMO there should be min charging time of FTL drive (preventing fast escape from battle) and max time of charging (different max length of jumps for different ships).
Charging FTL should drop e/reg of the ship to very low levels (i.e. 10%), disallowing using weapons, thrusters and slowing down recharge of shields. Also charging time should be dependent on mass of the ship, length of jump and number of FTL drive blocks.
Energy reg/s should be also viable when using FTL but as a resource which wouldn't speed up charging. Energy should be used while charging FTL, and if there wouldn't be enough energy available for hyperdrive system then whole charging process is slowed down but if there is a surplus of energy, then it won't matter.
Energy being used for charging would be drained from available sources, including power tanks, basic e/s (value of stat before brought to low level) and powersupply from other ships.
Power drain of this system would be based by FTL thrust of ship, similar to energy consumption of normal thrust system.

Cooldown on FTL system also could be nice. It could be based i.e. on how much charged FTL was needed to make previous jump. So if previous jump needed 40% of max charging value of the ship, then cooldown would be equal to 40% of max cooldown value in the server.

+Shields down and e/s lowered for some time after the jump.

 

[Vyor]

I have a better idea about FTL cooldown, HEAT!

I'll explain in a few words: I'm tired of seeing ships stuffed turkey style, this new element in terms of construction should cause drastic changes in the designs of the ships and that the more blocks are stacked less heat will be dissipated by the ship.

Using the FTL should generate tremendous amounts of heat, creating damage to the ship at each hop, so removing that would open the way for new types of weapons that would generate no direct damage but it would cause ship dissipate less heat and increase its temperature .

Sorry if I have not explained well but I have dinner to fall.

I forgot to say that with enough heat, the ship began get damage internally and extreme heat the ship would explode.

no

 

[ltmauve]

So you build up "heat" or "unstable tachyons" or whatever when you do a free-jump, and then when you jump with too many of those, you blow up? That actually sounds like an excellent way to prevent someone to continuously escape a fight by just "poofing" over a few sectors.

 

[Vyor]

So you build up "heat" or "unstable tachyons" or whatever when you do a free-jump, and then when you jump with too many of those, you blow up? That actually sounds like an excellent way to prevent someone to continuously escape a fight by just "poofing" over a few sectors.

or a great way to have nobody use it for really long distances!

Really?, The implemenación be quite simple (maximum volume of the ship, treating it as a cube) - (actual volume of the ship, actual number of blocks) = Heat Loss Factor.

Your Heat loss Factor = 0 -> have a nice flying stove

But something tells me you're a lover of craft style turkey ships.

That would remove the ability for large ships to enter FTL... and that removes the whole point of an FTL system.

 

[jorgekorke]

I would go for a system like the game Tachyon - The Fringe. Allowing the construction of Gateways that are only usable by fighters/bombers... maximum size to a corvette perhaps... That might give them some importance, since today they are worthless, unfortunately.

Huge ships would have the ability to FTL travel by themselves, but with a very, very huge cool-down. Perhaps a minimum waiting time of one hour, maximum to three hours. Having a certain block in the ship may let the recharge become quicker, depending on the quantity, ship mass, or even how they are built (like the power gen. and the thrusters today).

Maybe it might be fair to create a counter-measure for a big ship going FTL, to prevent someone to flee every single time.

 

[Vyor]

I would go for a system like the game Tachyon - The Fringe. Allowing the construction of Gateways that are only usable by fighters/bombers... maximum size to a corvette perhaps... That might give them some importance, since today they are worthless, unfortunately.

Huge ships would have the ability to FTL travel by themselves, but with a very, very huge cool-down. Perhaps a minimum waiting time of one hour, maximum to three hours. Having a certain block in the ship may let the recharge become quicker, depending on the quantity, ship mass, or even how they are built (like the power gen. and the thrusters today).

Maybe it might be fair to create a counter-measure for a big ship going FTL, to prevent someone to flee every single time.

+1

 

[ltmauve]

Going by what was said above, you would be able to have a weapon that increases the "unstable tachyons" of a ship to make it either damage itself when it jumps or make the pilot stop the jump. Basically causes the FTL drive to jump.

Also, don't have a maximum size for FTL gates. Really, I rather that everything except extremely specialized ships be beacon-only, but I understand that Schema is trying to avoid locking in anything towards making the experience a particular "way."

 

[Darth Cestual]

I can see what you're saying, but then heat becomes an additional factor to consider throughout the game, whereas a cool down time is already something we deal with in the case of missiles. Having the hyperdrive block require an X minute cool down and minimum power requirement is a simpler solution. Then use a similar setting as found in the Bobby AI unit where you set your hyperdrive block to either ship or jump gate, giving the players the choice of how they want to have hyperdrive depicted for their gaming experience. In a sandbox setting like StarMade, choices should be plentiful for every style of play, but keeping it in the simplest, most general terms so players can help build the game they want to play in using their own creativity.
But that's just my opinion.

 

[Vyor]

I'm bored of seeing capital ships with only one door and a hallway that leads to the core, ships more than 200,000 blocks, ships should be assumed to have at least a couple of rooms for the crew.

But lamers players prefer to have a little more shields or weapons or energy, to have more chances in combat.

Adding heat to the game makes the need for ventilation corridors inside the ship, would make them more realistic, and not just stuffed turkeys, some with cube form.

And prevents someone from using it for a large distance... removing the whole point of it... also, I just love how your reasoning is that people don't like to RP...not.

 

[Darth Cestual]

I'm bored of seeing capital ships with only one door and a hallway that leads to the core, ships more than 200,000 blocks, ships should be assumed to have at least a couple of rooms for the crew.

But lamers players prefer to have a little more shields or weapons or energy, to have more chances in combat.

Adding heat to the game makes the need for ventilation corridors inside the ship, would make them more realistic, and not just stuffed turkeys, some with cube form.

I'm admittedly new to StarMade, only been playing about 3 weeks now, but I've never seen ships like you describe, in game or on YouTube. Everything I've seen has been some really amazing builds from talented people, except in the case of PVP Thunderdome style matches with death cubes. Now if some players want to just PVP in simple boxes of death, that's their choice and they will find each other on a server for them. The rest of us will be on our various themed servers experiencing the type of play that suits you and me. The important thing is that we have the choice of how we can go about building the setting we want to play in.

 

[ltmauve]

I am not in favor of any sort of FTL that involves waiting, doing nothing, during the jump. FTL charge times should be ridiculous because that's the only way to prevent someone from just FTLing all over the place every few minutes. Having a period where the user waits, doing nothing for several minutes would add nothing to the gameplay, as opposed to those several minutes being them dodging attacks or loading up their ships or whatever.

Really, having an FTL drive charging up should have some sort of penalty that prevents players from running around with fully charged drives and poofing every time someone comes to attack them.

 

[Darth Cestual]

I think that's an awesome way to design a ship and I like seeing it done with having a crew and various ship systems in mind. My point was I don't think it requires an additional game mechanic to impose on less creative players. If StarMade was meant to be a realistic space sim, I'd totally agree with everything you're saying, but it's a bit more cartoony sandboxy get in there a whiz about in space with your pals and have a good time building cool stuff and shooting your friends kinda thing.
Again, just my opinion.

 

[1adog1]

There's some very important points that aren't quite being discussed according to their merit. One of them being that if we're going to put a sort of FTL travel in the game and allow people to use it as a tool when dealing with other players, we have to make it so that players do not become frustrated when it's used against them. If you set up a great ambush and the enemy simply *Poof* warps out, either due to constantly having his FTL on the charge-up cycle and only stopping it at the last second or not having to deal with a charge-up cycle at all... Well, it only feels good for one side of the conflict, and it ain't yours. We've got to find a way to implement FTL in such a way that both sides feel like they have opportunities to take advantage of weaknesses or mistakes in the other person's play or ship design, or that FTL doesn't have a part in conflict between ships.
Furthermore, we must find a way to balance that 'combat FTL' without putting in a set of convoluted mechanics to address each misuse case that comes up. The greatest system is one that is fun and reactive to players without anything added on to it.

What about the ability to cause damage to "vital systems" through shields. For example, the ability to temporarily disable a ships weapons with a well placed shot while the shields of a ship are still up. The same system could be implemented for FTL Drive.

 

[1adog1]

I have a better idea about FTL cooldown, HEAT!

I'll explain in a few words: I'm tired of seeing ships stuffed turkey style, this new element in terms of construction should cause drastic changes in the designs of the ships and that the more blocks are stacked less heat will be dissipated by the ship.

Using the FTL should generate tremendous amounts of heat, creating damage to the ship at each hop, so removing that would open the way for new types of weapons that would generate no direct damage but it would cause ship dissipate less heat and increase its temperature .

Sorry if I have not explained well but I have dinner to fall.

I forgot to say that with enough heat, the ship began get damage internally and extreme heat the ship would explode.

Too drastic. Just like in real life (with other large vehicles), most star made ships have vital systems clustered together. Implementing something like this would require a major redesign of some of the largest, and most complex ships ever built. It's like someone creating a massive, 2500 foot long aircraft carrier for the navy, and then the navy saying "You know what? I'd like the engine room to be 200 feet forward, and all the wires and piping should be 20 feet farther inward."

 

[Vyor]

Maybe its hard to understand but nobody born knowing how to do all the things on the life, and this game its a construction ships game, atleast at this point, but using the thing you said all dudes must make awesome cube stuffed turkey ships because they are awesome, have a real nice energy outpout and this its a game that don´t need balance!



Cof cof that´s an alpha game when new weapons system appear ALL THE OLD LARGEST AND COMPLEX SHIPS GONA BE REDESIGNED, if they want use the new stuff.

And sometimes the real world is stranger than fiction: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...avy-submarine-will-sink-to-bottom-of-sea.html

Every ship will have to be made so enifecantly(goddammit spell check!)... you have you vital systems in 1 chunk in real life so it is easy to defend, and it gives more room for armor.

 

[Blodge]

There's some very important points that aren't quite being discussed according to their merit. One of them being that if we're going to put a sort of FTL travel in the game and allow people to use it as a tool when dealing with other players, we have to make it so that players do not become frustrated when it's used against them. If you set up a great ambush and the enemy simply *Poof* warps out, either due to constantly having his FTL on the charge-up cycle and only stopping it at the last second or not having to deal with a charge-up cycle at all... Well, it only feels good for one side of the conflict, and it ain't yours. We've got to find a way to implement FTL in such a way that both sides feel like they have opportunities to take advantage of weaknesses or mistakes in the other person's play or ship design, or that FTL doesn't have a part in conflict between ships.
Furthermore, we must find a way to balance that 'combat FTL' without putting in a set of convoluted mechanics to address each misuse case that comes up. The greatest system is one that is fun and reactive to players without anything added on to it.

Couldn't there be an FTL nullifier block? Either something which creates an area-of-effect like the gravity well projectors on Interdictor class Star Destroyers, or a weapon which has to be fired specifically at a ship, similar to the Warp Scramblers in Eve Online? The AOE option would allow for some especially good ambush tactics...

 

[ltmauve]

First, make it so that charging an FTL drive, or having a charged FTL drive, incurs a debuff on the ship - reduced power, thrust, and shield regen. More importantly, make it so that charging an FTL drive takes a while. Adding heat, and weapons that cause heat to build up in a ship, would allow FTL to be disabled, but not with such certainty that it is certain.

 

[1adog1]

Maybe its hard to understand but nobody born knowing how to do all the things on the life, and this game its a construction ships game, atleast at this point, but using the thing you said all dudes must make awesome cube stuffed turkey ships because they are awesome, have a real nice energy outpout and this its a game that don´t need balance!



Cof cof that´s an alpha game when new weapons system appear ALL THE OLD LARGEST AND COMPLEX SHIPS GONA BE REDESIGNED, if they want use the new stuff.

And sometimes the real world is stranger than fiction: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...avy-submarine-will-sink-to-bottom-of-sea.html

Even that won't require an entire internal redesign. All they have to do is lose some of the ship's weight which can be done by changing the alloy of the hull, gutting non important systems, etc. Still, they haven't done anything in starmade that would require internal redesigns yet, and I'd rather they didn't start now, or they'll do it too often. Think about it, did you ever make a huge minecraft build in 1.2, and then come some later version, had to completely redesign it due to redstone setting fire to blocks around it? No, and Mojang would never do it as well. The key to making games, running a buisness, getting elected, and running a government are all the same. The people are always right, and without the people's support, a game will never succeed. And the people will not support a major system redesign.

P.S. Oh and the only thing in this game that needs balancing right now is the economy, and possibly the AI. Stuffed ships have disadvantages as well: No matter where you hit, you're ALWAYS hitting a vital system. As soon as you get through the shields of a stuffed ship, it's doomed even if you don't hit the core.

 

[Vyor]

I have only i word for that this it´s an alpha game with too many things that must be BALANCED.



Reading that i think you don´t know how the real word works, but for sure internet things usually go in the way you describe, and don´t worry, i dedicate to make pre-campaign about change certain things that I see in the game, do not think that's the only one who saw it the wrong way, as I said several posts ago, when the logic gates appear, I will apply some ideas that I have in mind unbalance the game in combat for the Stuffed Turkeys ships.



Yep, there are another threat to talk about economy, but for sure that´s not make fear to some players at this moment.



Really can say that? I love stuffed turkeys pilots too predictable.

Capital ships with more than triple power tanks than shields and your nice pseudo shotgun at the prow and some missiles to finish your prey.

No power tanks -> no decent dps, Is that what you call vital systems?

You will never back down will you? Also, stop using straw man arguments, it makes you look like an absolute moron. Ans ad hominem attacks.... ya, I am done here, you will never back down, even if we spell out in front of the UN why you are wrong. Good bye jerk.

 

[Darth Cestual]

Arkudo said that English isn't his first language, so it's possible there's something lost in translation going both ways. He has a design philosophy that works for him, just as everyone else has their own that works for them. But to bring the topic back around to the issue of FTL as part of StarMade, I think that both styles of ship board and jump gates be available, for reasons.