Poll for FTL travel

[the guyver]

I know this has been discussed / theorized to death already in numerous threads but my thoughts on ship based FTL are:



2 new blocks:
FTL Navigation computer + FTL Drive block, linked using the same method as weapons computer and weapons

FTL navigation computer:
can plot a course to anywhere in the universe, the longer the distance the longer it will take to plot the course- plotting multiple jumps if there is not enough FTL Drive blocks to do it in 1 jump
while plotting the course it would calculate coordinates and mass of any objects in the path of travel and use a formula to check that the ship has sufficient shields to survive passing through those objects undamaged.
if there is not enough shields available there should be some feed back on the UI as to the risk level of the FTL jump and if the jump is made with a high risk the ship will suffer damaged during FTL

FTL Drive:
each block would have a power requirement, if it not met FTL is offline, each block will give a distance of travel - example 1 block = current distance between stars

if you dont have enough blocks to travel the full distance of the course plotted You will have to make several jumps to the maximum distance your FTL drive will allow with a cooldown after each jump

This would allow all ships to use FTL with a balance as to size of ship affecting the size of jump possible,
and give a requirement for power and shields - giving a higher priority in battle to hit power or shield generators to prevent the target jumping to FTL to escape

 

[Vyor]

I know this has been discussed / theorized to death already in numerous threads but my thoughts on ship based FTL are:



2 new blocks:
FTL Navigation computer + FTL Drive block, linked using the same method as weapons computer and weapons

FTL navigation computer:
can plot a course to anywhere in the universe, the longer the distance the longer it will take to plot the course- plotting multiple jumps if there is not enough FTL Drive blocks to do it in 1 jump
while plotting the course it would calculate coordinates and mass of any objects in the path of travel and use a formula to check that the ship has sufficient shields to survive passing through those objects undamaged.
if there is not enough shields available there should be some feed back on the UI as to the risk level of the FTL jump and if the jump is made with a high risk the ship will suffer damaged during FTL

FTL Drive:
each block would have a power requirement, if it not met FTL is offline, each block will give a distance of travel - example 1 block = current distance between stars

if you dont have enough blocks to travel the full distance of the course plotted You will have to make several jumps to the maximum distance your FTL drive will allow with a cooldown after each jump

This would allow all ships to use FTL with a balance as to size of ship affecting the size of jump possible,
and give a requirement for power and shields - giving a higher priority in battle to hit power or shield generators to prevent the target jumping to FTL to escape

Hey, look! My exact specifications for my prefered FTL!

 

[therimmer96]

Schema has said that he can do this right now, using the code that admins can use to teleport around, but he wants more basic features completed first. this is a big fat no for now

 

[the guyver]

Schema has said that he can do this right now, using the code that admins can use to teleport around, but he wants more basic features completed first. this is a big fat no for now

I know that, and agree with schema, there is no point in making a simple warp using the admin command code, it would potentially be completely unbalanced and would double the work load for adding a single feature, having to rewrite it later

if someone does make a suggestion that is considered worth putting in the game its better to suggest it as early as possible since its easier to write code now that will allow it to be implemented later rather than having to rewrite a large amount of code to add it in later

 

[Blodge]

As I understand it, this thread is different because it is specifically about *which* type of FTL system we prefer and why, not how to implement either system.

In my opinion, you have to have both ship-initiated *and* beacon systems. This is simply because they both serve different purposes.

Beacons/gates are for more "domestic" purposes such as setting up safe, fast trading lanes between locations, as well as a way to allow the military to quickly reinforce an important location. Basically, they are the Freeways of space.

Ship-initiated systems are for the type of craft which has to "off-road" regularly. This would include Scouts/Explorers, long-haul mining operations, some private Traders, Smugglers, Pirates, the Military, and of course, the construction ships required to *build* the beacons in the first place.

Another important point to keep in mind is that the main aspect of the game which sets Starmade apart from (for example) Eve Online is at it's heart, it's about construction. We all get a kick from either coming up with cool designs or overcoming engineering challenges. Implementing both FTL systems will encourage the design of new types of ships, as well as new types of space-stations.


tl;dr version: If FTL is going to be done at all, then we need both systems to stop the game from being frustrating and keeping it creative.

 

[Rhyssia]

Ship based all the way. While planet based would be awesome. It seems reasonably cheesy. Especially on say, a faction planet with enough power to jump you practically anywhere (because a faction base is immune to damage, just make giant stupid power arrays.

 

[the guyver]

I do think both should be done but be configurable at server level to set which ways are enabled on the server,

My thoughts on gate based FTL :

requires 3 new blocks:

gate power couple - only 1 allowed per sector and only placeable on a station or planet
gate generator - only 1 allowed per sector and only placeable on stations or a special gate station
gate generator enhancer


to create a gate a a gate power couple would need to be placed where the gates power will come from.
then either place a gate generator on your existing station or create a special gate station the same way a station is created now
placing the gate generator in build mode would give a bounding box similar to docking modules do now ,but only 1 block wide in the Z axis
adding enhancer would increase the size of the gate box,
2 possible ways enhancer could work are:

1. similar to docking enhancers do the more you link + place along the X axis the wider the gate etc.
2. enhancer position does not matter only that it is part of the same object as the gate generator and linked to it, each enhancer increases both X + Y dimensions

gate would be active if there is enough power to supply the generator + all of the enhancers and there are no blocks placed within the gate box area


gate travel can only be used to travel between 2 gates a sending gate and a receiving gate, any gate can be used as a send or receiving gate (as long as its not faction locked)
to establish a link between 2 gates it could either be docking beam hitting the box area (would need 1 extra invisible block to represent the area)
or ship entering the box area

if the ship does not fit through the gate size the gate wont activate

once activated it will bring up a ui to input the destination coords and a list of coord history

once the link is established another power check should be done so the total power required by both gates and the total power available to both gates is compared if there is not enough power, the ship cant travel and link disconnects
and if link is successful a risk rating for any size difference between the 2 gates should be show on the UI

if the receiving gate is too small for ship to fit through only the parts of the ship that will fit, will come out of the receiving gate

this would allow travel from a gate with surplus power to a gate that is under powered, but it would be a 1 way trip (allowing a small gate seeding ship to go build a destination gate, and the a large supply ship to come through the gate to build a proper power supply/station + defences
there would be a big risk of damage trying to use an unknown/random destination gate , if you try sending a titan through your mega gate to a small fighter sized gate you would loose 90% of your ship

if your using massive gates you would need to defend both gates as enemies could destroy your ships by damaging the receiving gates enhancers

 

[Blodge]

Especially on say, a faction planet with enough power to jump you practically anywhere (because a faction base is immune to damage, just make giant stupid power arrays.

What's stopping a player from putting a Faction module on an extremely large carrier-ship and having enough Power and FTL drives to do the same thing? With the Beacon system, you have to build beacons at both your origin and destination points which makes it more time and resource consuming and therefore remains balanced.

 

[Vyor]

What's stopping a player from putting a Faction module on an extremely large carrier-ship and having enough Power and FTL drives to do the same thing? With the Beacon system, you have to build beacons at both your origin and destination points which makes it more time and resource consuming and therefore remains balanced.

You can't make a ship into a faction base. Maybe you should use your head...

 

[Blodge]

You can't make a ship into a faction base. Maybe you should use your head...

1) Carry a Faction Module with you on your super-large FTL ship and place it on a Planet/Station when you get to your destination,
2) Build a dock (with a ton of docking enhancers),
3) Dock with it and switch the Planet/Station to be your new Home Base.
4) Enjoy the benefits of having a Planet/Station which is immune to damage with an equally indestructible super-large FTL ship attached to it.

Maybe you should use your imagination...

 

[Vyor]

1) Carry a Faction Module with you on your super-large FTL ship and place it on a Planet/Station when you get to your destination,
2) Build a dock (with a ton of docking enhancers),
3) Dock with it and switch the Planet/Station to be your new Home Base.
4) Enjoy the benefits of having a Planet/Station which is immune to damage with an equally indestructible super-large FTL ship attached to it.

Maybe you should use your imagination...

When you want to use it what do you do? Oh... right...

You undock it!!!

It can be attacked at this time.


Having logic complements having an imagination BTW.

 

[Blodge]

When you want to use it what do you do? Oh... right...

You undock it!!!

It can be attacked at this time.


Having logic complements having an imagination BTW.

You have turrets on your super-large ship which will still work while docked. Can you use logic to explain how is this is less effective than having turrets on your super-large stationary Home Base?

 

[Vyor]

When you want to use it what do you do? Oh... right...

You undock it!!!

It can be attacked at this time.

You have turrets on your super-large ship which will still work while docked. Can you use logic to explain how is this is less effective than having turrets on your super-large stationary Home Base?

Wouldn't that just make this a really large ship without invincibility? I beg you, please think about what you are posting.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Well considering we will probably get the faction points system before an FTL system so making that planet a faction homebase will cost a ton of points making this an entirely moot argument.

 

[NeonSturm]

The recent Q&A addressed FTL. We will be getting at least a few different kinds (Calibiri indicated there are four types they are looking at: jump drive, stargate, hyperluminal, and hyperspace.) including both ship-initiated and station-initiated. There will be a long charge time on ship FTL to prevent immediate fight-fleeing. However, other than that and a few minor details (like having to build stations to make wormholes, and coming out a smaller gate than you went in stripping/shrinking (it was not clear which, probably stripping) your ship), not much seems to be very far in planning. FTL-tracking would be a good question for the next Q&A, as would be asking for more details in case they've moved further towards finalizing how FTL will work.

It is always fun to theorize... just so long as you don't make a new god damned thread...

+1

Maybe ships should not load based on space-distance, but on time-distance. Minimum time they need to arrive at your position, inclusive break time, acceleration and max speed...
It could be a function based on distance change between you and a ship in sensor-proximity - roghly (distance / max-Speed - 1/2 accelleration time)


I think it will be fun with ships where some are balanced (e.g. with 95% warp +10% Overdrive) and others are specialized (70% warp with 60% Overdrive) with OD having a heat bar: cooldown = 1/4 of overheating.
Sometimes you just need to get out of sensor range. Carriers might be balanced, hunters specialized with warp-boosts to be able to fit more weapons and shields in the same mass.

I suggest warp-interceptor weapons for warp-warp combat to attack scaled ship-outlines (easier to hit/see over large distances; min = 1em, max = 100%) which reduce the efficiency of a target's warp engines.

 

[Blodge]

Wouldn't that just make this a really large ship without invincibility? I beg you, please think about what you are posting.

A Base containing a Faction Module set to Home Base is invincible.
A Ship docked with a Base containing a Faction Module set to Home Base is also invincible.

At least, that's what it says in the Wiki:
"Ships fitted with a Faction module cannot be destroyed in their Faction's home base, as long as it's landed or fix-docked."
http://www.starmadewiki.com/wiki/Faction_Block

Well considering we will probably get the faction points system before an FTL system so making that planet a faction homebase will cost a ton of points making this an entirely moot argument.

Dang, I was starting to like the idea of flying around the galaxy in a huge "Mothership" and just placing-down a large enough Dock with a Faction module every time I felt like parking-up and becoming invincible. Oh well, will just have to build a Death Star instead

 

[Vyor]

A Base containing a Faction Module set to Home Base is invincible.
A Ship docked with a Base containing a Faction Module set to Home Base is also invincible.

At least, that's what it says in the Wiki:
"Ships fitted with a Faction module cannot be destroyed in their Faction's home base, as long as it's landed or fix-docked."
http://www.starmadewiki.com/wiki/Faction_Block

In order to use the FTL you will have to, wait for it, undock...

 

[Unnamed25]

Dang, I was starting to like the idea of flying around the galaxy in a huge "Mothership" and just placing-down a large enough Dock with a Faction module every time I felt like parking-up and becoming invincible. Oh well, will just have to build a Death Star instead

You can do that already.. You don't need FTL for that.

 

[MrFURB]

I'm more of a fan of the 'gate' idea where one must first manually explore the territory and then build a warp gate there, linking it into a network. It's an extremely simple system in theory.

Why I prefer it is primarily due to how it adds only a small number of things to the game that aren't very intrusive, but interacts with nearly every other mechanic in the game. Warp gates don't just become another feature to memorize; they become part of the game. Economy, transportation, area-specific resources, faction territory and warfare, base defense and construction, active exploration, and even gate-related piracy. Warp gates themselves may be a simple addition to the game, but they change the way one would go about doing a rather large portion of the game.

Even deeper than mechanics, warp gates are healthy in a social sense as a network is very likely to create a more interesting and compact population density in servers. People will flock towards the gates who are dabbling in anything that requires other players; trade, piracy, the like. It also creates very clear-cut areas for people who wish to be left alone or explore previously unknown areas. Simply go where there isn't a gate, and there will be less players there and more untapped resources as well. (The players that are there will likely respond in a less friendly manner to being found out.)

Right now there aren't many ways of creating population centers in space. Warp gates being a necessity for travel between areas will help give the tools to the populations that need them without ruining the exploration of deep space for those who wish to be treasure hunters.

 

[Blodge]

In order to use the FTL you will have to, wait for it, undock...

Yes, but while it is parked-up it is still just as invincible as the Home Base it's docked to.

I cannot see how the properties of a large Faction Home Base (big, covered in Turrets, invincible) are not exactly the same as the properties of a large Spaceship (big, covered in Turrets) which is docked at a Faction Home Base (becomes invincible).

Can you please, instead of repeatedly accusing me of failing to think and use logic, actually point out what part of the above is incorrect and explain why:

You can't make a ship into a faction base.