Poll for FTL travel

[Blodge]

You can do that already.. You don't need FTL for that.

True, but the tediously long wait involved in moving location at sub-light speeds might be too much for the idea to appeal. At least with a Death Star, you can blow stuff up along the way to keep you entertained

 

[Blodge]

I'm more of a fan of the 'gate' idea where one must first manually explore the territory and then build a warp gate there, linking it into a network. It's an extremely simple system in theory.

Why I prefer it is primarily due to how it adds only a small number of things to the game that aren't very intrusive, but interacts with nearly every other mechanic in the game. Warp gates don't just become another feature to memorize; they become part of the game. Economy, transportation, area-specific resources, faction territory and warfare, base defense and construction, active exploration, and even gate-related piracy. Warp gates themselves may be a simple addition to the game, but they change the way one would go about doing a rather large portion of the game.

Even deeper than mechanics, warp gates are healthy in a social sense as a network is very likely to create a more interesting and compact population density in servers. People will flock towards the gates who are dabbling in anything that requires other players; trade, piracy, the like. It also creates very clear-cut areas for people who wish to be left alone or explore previously unknown areas. Simply go where there isn't a gate, and there will be less players there and more untapped resources as well. (The players that are there will likely respond in a less friendly manner to being found out.)

Right now there aren't many ways of creating population centers in space. Warp gates being a necessity for travel between areas will help give the tools to the populations that need them without ruining the exploration of deep space for those who wish to be treasure hunters.

I agree 100% with everything you've said about the benefits of jump gates. Especially the part about affecting population densities. Very good point.

However, I still see a need for ship-based FTL even if it's for no other reason than having a practical way of building the gate network in the first place. If you make the power consumption requirements of a ship-based FTL drive higher than those of a stationary gate, then you limit them to large ships only. If small ships cannot go FTL by themselves, then this should still preserve the need for communities to build up around gate locations.

 

[Vyor]

Yes, but while it is parked-up it is still just as invincible as the Home Base it's docked to.

I cannot see how the properties of a large Faction Home Base (big, covered in Turrets, invincible) are not exactly the same as the properties of a large Spaceship (big, covered in Turrets) which is docked at a Faction Home Base (becomes invincible).

Can you please, instead of repeatedly accusing me of failing to think and use logic, actually point out what part of the above is incorrect and explain why:

That can happen anyway, having ship based FTL wouldn't change it or add it. That is the logic you fail to see.

 

[Blodge]

Post #29. You said:

You can't make a ship into a faction base.

Post #43. Now you are saying:

That can happen anyway, having ship based FTL wouldn't change it or add it.

I have been saying all along that you can make a ship into a Faction Base while you have been saying you cannot. Now that you have changed your mind, what does FTL have to do with it?

 

[NeonSturm]

IRL, not everybody can own a capital-sized ship - that makes things balanced.

Ingame, you don't wanna limit creativity, but if FTL-drives take up a lot of space (_IN_PERCENT_), then you need smaller ships docked for better sublight-maneuverability.
This docked ship has to be a lot smaller, or it would add too much mass to the big one.

I think this would fix the whole part.

 

[Vyor]

What's stopping a player from putting a Faction module on an extremely large carrier-ship and having enough Power and FTL drives to do the same thing? With the Beacon system, you have to build beacons at both your origin and destination points which makes it more time and resource consuming and therefore remains balanced.

What you said.


I never said that you can make a ship a faction base. I said that you can make a planet a faction base and dock your ship to it. This can happen regardless and shouldn't affect your idea of balance.

Ingame, you don't wanna limit creativity, but if FTL-drives take up a lot of space (_IN_PERCENT_), then you need smaller ships docked for better sublight-maneuverability.
This docked ship has to be a lot smaller, or it would add too much mass to the big one.

That was in my post:

No, what you have is a cool down. The farther you go the longer the cooldown is, if you make short hops quickly it burns out and you can't use it for a while... It would of course have a distance limit, if you hit it the drive core breaks and has to be replaced(it will have a long charge time before it can be used). The more powerful a drive core is(dependant on the size of the core and the mass of the ship), the farther away that limit is, and the faster it goes(so you reach the limit in the same time regardless). This is a bit of a combination of star wars and mass effect style FTL.

 

[NeonSturm]

You did not say that ftl and sublight use the same blocks (or controller) in your opinion Vyor.

I think they should be separated.

 

[Vyor]

You did not say that ftl and sublight use the same blocks (or controller) in your opinion Vyor.

I think they should be separated.

Sublight uses the engines... that are already in the game... I don't know why I would have to bring them up...

 

[Fwyrl]

I think that FTL should be both ship-based and beacon-based.

In order to use a beacon, a ship would need an on-board system, the size of which would determine the amount of power that the FTL system could hold, and power fill rate. Larger ships would require more power to warp.

Beacons are just waypoints and energy input for the station FTL system.

Each FTL system block holds 50,000 e, and both the beacon (station computer) and FTL computer (ship computer) hold 200,000 e

There would be three types of jump:

1- Safe jumps
-Beacon to beacon
-Ship cost: About 1,000e/1 mass
-Completely safe
-Station cost: 1,000e/1 meter for both stations
-If the ship or station runs out of energy, the jump does not occur, and no energy is drained.

2- Emergency jumps
-??? to ???
-Selects a random location within your possible jump sphere (margin of error of 50%)
-If you warp into a collision, it just deletes the part of the ship inside the collision. (if the core is deleted and the player is inside, the player is killed)
-Ship cost: About 5k/1 mass + additional penalty for ship size + penalty for distance jumped
-If your onboard FTL system can't hold enough power for the jump, it starts pulling from your normal power storage, when that runs out, bad things happen.

3- Warp jumps
-A safe jump, from space to a node, using your ship as a node
-Your ship shoulders the energy price of both the ship, and the sending beacon.
-If the node you're teleporting to is gone, preform an emergency warp instead
-The destination node is hardwired in an expensive block, to set a warp to the block, activate it while in range of the node.

Edit 1:
-Stations use energy based on the size of the bounding box of the ship they're transporting. Eg. a 100 by 120 by 350 ship would require 4,200,000 e for both stations, on top of the distance cost.

Edit 2: Clearing up some things:
-Beacons a just beacons. All the limitations lie in the FTL system on the ship and station.
-The FTL system blocks can be connected to a beacon to be a station FTL system, of a FTL computer to be a ship's FTL system. Station FTL systems would recharge over time, while ship FTL systems would only charge when warping. (They charge so fast that there's no power left in the system - no shields recharge, no weapons, no turrets, no movement.)
-For an emergency jump, a station must allow the connection. Connection settings can be set per faction, distance and player.

Edit 3:
-rece ktore lecoz mentioned something in a post I thought was a good idea: ships loose all shields and 50% remaining stored power when jumping. You would not only need a good power supply, but a good defense system for an FTL gate.

Edit 4:
-Rebalanced energy costs slightly on the ship's end, to make Emergency jumps possible, and normal jumps less expensive.

Edit 5: Some math:
Standard jump with a 50m wide, 75m tall, 125m long cargo ship:

For the stations:
Distance cost: 16 sectors (star system width) = 16 sectors*1,000 m / sector (sector width)*1,000 e /m = 16,000,000 e or 16M e
Ship dimensions cost: 468,750 e
Total FTL jump cost: 16,468,750 e for both stations.

For the ship:
1,000 e/ mass * 0.1 mass/block (most ship blocks) * (468750/2 blocks, estimate) = 23,437,500

Average ship generation for a ship that size: 500K-1M e/s = 24s-47s charge up time.

 

[Ithirahad]

Huh, having warp/jump systems hold their own power reserve is actually a really good idea.

 

[Fwyrl]

Huh, having warp/jump systems hold their own power reserve is actually a really good idea.

Thanks I figured that they should hold far more power/block than normal power storage, but it can only be used for FTL, that way it can't be exploited as power storage.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

I think FTL should charge using energy and FTL thrust. Here i better explained my vision. Unfortunately this post isn't well edited and i can see things i could've written, maybe one day i will come back to the FTL idea.

 

[ltmauve]

I think that FTL should be both ship-based and beacon-based.

In order to use a beacon, a ship would need an on-board system, the size of which would determine the amount of power that the FTL system could hold, and power fill rate. Larger ships would require more power to warp.

Beacons are just waypoints and energy input for the station FTL system.

Each FTL system block holds 50,000 e, and both the beacon (station computer) and FTL computer (ship computer) hold 200,000 e

There would be three types of jump:

1- Safe jumps
-Beacon to beacon
-Ship cost: About 1,000e/1 mass
-Completely safe
-Station cost: 1,000e/1 meter for both stations
-If the ship or station runs out of energy, the jump does not occur, and no energy is drained.

2- Emergency jumps
-??? to ???
-Selects a random location within your possible jump sphere (margin of error of 50%)
-If you warp into a collision, it just deletes the part of the ship inside the collision. (if the core is deleted and the player is inside, the player is killed)
-Ship cost: About 5k/1 mass + additional penalty for ship size + penalty for distance jumped
-If your onboard FTL system can't hold enough power for the jump, it starts pulling from your normal power storage, when that runs out, bad things happen.

3- Warp jumps
-A safe jump, from space to a node, using your ship as a node
-Your ship shoulders the energy price of both the ship, and the sending beacon.
-If the node you're teleporting to is gone, preform an emergency warp instead
-The destination node is hardwired in an expensive block, to set a warp to the block, activate it while in range of the node.

Edit 1:
-Stations use energy based on the size of the bounding box of the ship they're transporting. Eg. a 100 by 120 by 350 ship would require 4,200,000 e for both stations, on top of the distance cost.

Edit 2: Clearing up some things:
-Beacons a just beacons. All the limitations lie in the FTL system on the ship and station.
-The FTL system blocks can be connected to a beacon to be a station FTL system, of a FTL computer to be a ship's FTL system. Station FTL systems would recharge over time, while ship FTL systems would only charge when warping. (They charge so fast that there's no power left in the system - no shields recharge, no weapons, no turrets, no movement.)
-For an emergency jump, a station must allow the connection. Connection settings can be set per faction, distance and player.

Edit 3:
-rece ktore lecoz mentioned something in a post I thought was a good idea: ships loose all shields and 50% remaining stored power when jumping. You would not only need a good power supply, but a good defense system for an FTL gate.

Edit 4:
-Rebalanced energy costs slightly on the ship's end, to make Emergency jumps possible, and normal jumps less expensive.

Edit 5: Some math:
Standard jump with a 50m wide, 75m tall, 125m long cargo ship:

For the stations:
Distance cost: 16 sectors (star system width) = 16 sectors*1,000 m / sector (sector width)*1,000 e /m = 16,000,000 e or 16M e
Ship dimensions cost: 468,750 e
Total FTL jump cost: 16,468,750 e for both stations.

For the ship:
1,000 e/ mass * 0.1 mass/block (most ship blocks) * (468750/2 blocks, estimate) = 23,437,500

Average ship generation for a ship that size: 500K-1M e/s = 24s-47s charge up time.

This is actually really good. However,
a) How much of a ship would be FTL drive to use beacons? Emergency jumps? Warp drive?
b)I'd rather the FTL cost of a ship for a station be based off mass, rather than volume.

 

[Blodge]

I think that FTL should be both ship-based and beacon-based.

In order to use a beacon, a ship would need an on-board system, the size of which would determine the amount of power that the FTL system could hold, and power fill rate. Larger ships would require more power to warp.

Beacons are just waypoints and energy input for the station FTL system.

Each FTL system block holds 50,000 e, and both the beacon (station computer) and FTL computer (ship computer) hold 200,000 e

There would be three types of jump:

1- Safe jumps
-Beacon to beacon
-Ship cost: About 1,000e/1 mass
-Completely safe
-Station cost: 1,000e/1 meter for both stations
-If the ship or station runs out of energy, the jump does not occur, and no energy is drained.

2- Emergency jumps
-??? to ???
-Selects a random location within your possible jump sphere (margin of error of 50%)
-If you warp into a collision, it just deletes the part of the ship inside the collision. (if the core is deleted and the player is inside, the player is killed)
-Ship cost: About 5k/1 mass + additional penalty for ship size + penalty for distance jumped
-If your onboard FTL system can't hold enough power for the jump, it starts pulling from your normal power storage, when that runs out, bad things happen.

3- Warp jumps
-A safe jump, from space to a node, using your ship as a node
-Your ship shoulders the energy price of both the ship, and the sending beacon.
-If the node you're teleporting to is gone, preform an emergency warp instead
-The destination node is hardwired in an expensive block, to set a warp to the block, activate it while in range of the node.

Edit 1:
-Stations use energy based on the size of the bounding box of the ship they're transporting. Eg. a 100 by 120 by 350 ship would require 4,200,000 e for both stations, on top of the distance cost.

Edit 2: Clearing up some things:
-Beacons a just beacons. All the limitations lie in the FTL system on the ship and station.
-The FTL system blocks can be connected to a beacon to be a station FTL system, of a FTL computer to be a ship's FTL system. Station FTL systems would recharge over time, while ship FTL systems would only charge when warping. (They charge so fast that there's no power left in the system - no shields recharge, no weapons, no turrets, no movement.)
-For an emergency jump, a station must allow the connection. Connection settings can be set per faction, distance and player.

Edit 3:
-rece ktore lecoz mentioned something in a post I thought was a good idea: ships loose all shields and 50% remaining stored power when jumping. You would not only need a good power supply, but a good defense system for an FTL gate.

Edit 4:
-Rebalanced energy costs slightly on the ship's end, to make Emergency jumps possible, and normal jumps less expensive.

Edit 5: Some math:
Standard jump with a 50m wide, 75m tall, 125m long cargo ship:

For the stations:
Distance cost: 16 sectors (star system width) = 16 sectors*1,000 m / sector (sector width)*1,000 e /m = 16,000,000 e or 16M e
Ship dimensions cost: 468,750 e
Total FTL jump cost: 16,468,750 e for both stations.

For the ship:
1,000 e/ mass * 0.1 mass/block (most ship blocks) * (468750/2 blocks, estimate) = 23,437,500

Average ship generation for a ship that size: 500K-1M e/s = 24s-47s charge up time.

This is a pretty good idea for implementation. It seems like it would work in an obvious enough way to be accessible to players without being so easy to do it becomes a "cheat". However, I don't agree with using a separate reservoir for FTL energy, it seems like an unnecessary complication. I don't see a reason why it can't just use the existing generator+battery system.

 

[ltmauve]

This is a pretty good idea for implementation. It seems like it would work in an obvious enough way to be accessible to players without being so easy to do it becomes a "cheat". However, I don't agree with using a separate reservoir for FTL energy, it seems like an unnecessary complication. I don't see a reason why it can't just use the existing generator+battery system.

The reason it should use a seperate reservoir is so that charging for FTL actually takes time, since otherwise you get a system where you are normally limited to 20,000 energy, with 100k+ regen per second.
If storing energy for FTL seems weird or like it might be confusing, have "flux" or "tachyons" or whatever, and those are worth 1000 energy for jumping.

 

[Blodge]

The reason it should use a seperate reservoir is so that charging for FTL actually takes time, since otherwise you get a system where you are normally limited to 20,000 energy, with 100k+ regen per second.
If storing energy for FTL seems weird or like it might be confusing, have "flux" or "tachyons" or whatever, and those are worth 1000 energy for jumping.

Are you saying the idea is to enforce a delay in FTL jumping? So it can't be used at a moment's notice to, for example instantly join or escape a battle?

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

Are you saying the idea is to enforce a delay in FTL jumping? So it can't be used at a moment's notice to, for example instantly join or escape a battle?

A significant delay in ship FTL was mentioned by Calibiri in the last Q&A. The way it was described indicated that there would be an imaginary (not real since you couldn't use it for anything else and it's normally empty...) in-engine reservoir that would take minutes to charge it up from your ship's energy.

 

[1adog1]

Well if we want to be in any way realistic here, we need to realize that exceeding the speed of is breaking a law of physics (relatively). Under the law, it states that to travel to the speed of light would require infinite energy. I don't know if you've ever tried to break a law of physics, but it has been done, and it requires a crap TON of energy. I think FTL drives should be made accesable to both ships (in the form of a hyperdrive, warp core, etc.) and stations (stargate, etc.). In both cases there would be a required "activation energy", relative to the size of the ship or stargate which is being activated, which would drain 100% of the ship's or station's power until the energy requirement was met. Coordinates would be set by a computer connected to the system, and it would take 1-5 seconds to traverse each sector depending on the size of the ship and size of the drive (can we please change speed from Kilometers per hour to something in any way relative to the speed of light).

 

[Darth Cestual]

Why not just put a 5minute cool down on the hyperdrive block? Perhaps for the starting jump it requires 100k energy or whatever to activate, so big ships will have no problem having one on board, and smaller ships use jump gates and beacons. Either way, it's going to be another 5 minutes before the hyperdrive block can be used again.

 

[MrFURB]

There's some very important points that aren't quite being discussed according to their merit. One of them being that if we're going to put a sort of FTL travel in the game and allow people to use it as a tool when dealing with other players, we have to make it so that players do not become frustrated when it's used against them. If you set up a great ambush and the enemy simply *Poof* warps out, either due to constantly having his FTL on the charge-up cycle and only stopping it at the last second or not having to deal with a charge-up cycle at all... Well, it only feels good for one side of the conflict, and it ain't yours. We've got to find a way to implement FTL in such a way that both sides feel like they have opportunities to take advantage of weaknesses or mistakes in the other person's play or ship design, or that FTL doesn't have a part in conflict between ships.
Furthermore, we must find a way to balance that 'combat FTL' without putting in a set of convoluted mechanics to address each misuse case that comes up. The greatest system is one that is fun and reactive to players without anything added on to it.