Suggested Fuel Reactors (does NOT replace current reactors)

    So, are reactors that require fuel a good idea in the form presented in this topic?

    • I respect your opinion, but I want ONLY the fueled reactors. Ditch the old ones.

      Votes: 1 14.3%
    • Only if we get to keep the old reactors too. Finally, a replacement for docked generators!

      Votes: 4 57.1%
    • I would like new/existing reactors with mechanics you describe, except without fuel.

      Votes: 1 14.3%
    • The current power system doesn't need any additions or changes. Let me dock my generators in peace.

      Votes: 1 14.3%

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    Disclaimer: if actually added, "Fusion Reactor" would be a better name for the suggested blocks. I called it Fuel Reactor to only to convey as much about the suggestion as I could in two words.

    As the title says, this is not a replacement for the current reactors. The current reactor blocks would remain in the game, and would continue to function exactly as they do now in every respect, and would continue to be useable, buyable, manufacturable, etc. To repeat, this DOES NOT replace or alter the current reactor blocks.

    The reason for allowing current reactors to still exist can be simple if you consider the following theory: The current "reactors" are effectively highly advanced radioisotope thermoelectric generators (RTGs). That is why they they don't need fuel, and don't run out of fuel. Their "fuel" is simply able to last a relatively long time (at a bare minimum, months of continuous operation). Alternatively, they might be fission micro-reactors that are set up in thermo-electric generator tubes.

    It can even explain their unusual generation behavior (at least, somewhat). A long line of them generating more power then a bunch would simply be explained off as this giving them more surface area to work with. The power cap can even be "explained" a little via the fact that having too much heat in a single ship reduces the thermal gradient the reactors get (and thus, efficiency). Yeah, it doesn't completely explain things, but its at least something.


    But yeah. lets move on to the Fuel Reactor and its associated blocks and behavior.

    Suggestion Goals:

    -Avoid causing steeper learning curve (i.e. making sure fuel and new stuff is NOT required).

    -Fix the Docked Generator "problem," by providing an alternate means of powering larger ships.

    -At least somewhat encourage good ship design over death boxes.

    -Introduce something new into the game without making things complicated and off-putting for players regardless of game experience (yes, I realize some irony considering how long this post is, but I assure you the ideas would seem simpler in practice).


    Fuel Reactor overview:

    The Fuel Reactor is an alternate means of generating power which differs from the standard reactor in that it (as you might expect) uses fuel. However, it also has some other differences as well.

    In effect, it will generally be what you want to use to power larger vessels, but it can also be used for higher performance or special-purpose small vessels as well.

    Traits and differences from the current/RTG Reactors:

    1. Fuel Reactors do NOT have an energy soft cap or hard cap. The current reactors will continue to have it at the current point (i.e. at 1 million, and being very difficult to go above 2 million). This is because the "cap" is really just the fuel you can carry.
    2. Fuel Reactors power output scales similarly to power capacitors. The more you have in a single reactor, the more per-block.

    3. Fuel use is based on power produced, not the size of the reactor. By itself, this means that a reactor that produces 10x as much power uses fuel 10x as fast. For balance purposes, efficiency may change a little with individual reactor output (bigger reactors may be a little more efficient, but this should softcap around no lower than 25% of the fuel use required per-power from a one-block reactor).

    4. Each Fuel Reactor is considered a separate reactor. This is mostly important for the next point, but also plays into power produced.

    5. If one of its blocks is destroyed, the reactor stops working until you reboot the ship/repair it at a station. This is to say, when they are damaged they stop producing power COMPLETELY. But ONLY the reactor that was damaged. All other undamaged reactors will continue operating as normal.

    6. You CAN have both types of reactors on a single ship. The current ones will merely have their softcap in place, whereas the Fuel Reactors will have their own separate power count without the cap. Also note that the power generation from a Fuel Reactor is NOT counted towards the soft cap of any present "normal" reactors (a 2 million normal reactor will still produce 2 million even when you turn some Fuel Reactors on).


    New Blocks and their descriptions:

    Fuel Reactor Computer: This block is NOT required for reactors to function. However, it does allow them to be turned on and off without going into your ship entities menu or walking over to it manually and "using" it. Place it on your hotbar, same as a weapons computer or something like that, and you can turn the reactors on and off at will. Useful if you want to save fuel when not in combat by relying only on the currently existing RTG-like reactors. Additionally, it may be possible to slave certain effects computers to it in order to affect the

    Fuel Reactor: The block you make the actual reactor out of. As noted above, the power produced by a given connected bunch of Fuel Reactors works similarly to the storage rate of Power Capacitors. The more you have in one cluster, the more power it makes, regardless of the actual dimensions. When one of a single cluster of blocks is destroyed from any source that deals damage, the reactor stops working entirely until you reboot the ship (any separate, undamaged reactors will continue to function as normal).



    Fuel Tank: These blocks add fuel capacity to your ship. They add the same amount per-block regardless of orientation or number. There is no cap. Fuel capacity is shared with docked entities. In the event any form of advanced thrusters are added which require fuel, they can use the same fuel the Fuel Reactors use, and thus can draw from these same fuel tanks (I maintain that the basic thruster, the one already in the game, should NOT use fuel however).

    Fuel Tank Mechanics (not necessary, but would encourage better design)
    : If more than a given fuel tank is destroyed or if a tank is completely severed, the remaining fuel tank blocks of the group in question explode (the tanks apparently have some built-in ability to prevent fuel explosions, but it only goes so far). Most ship captains agree that a fuel tank exploding inside their ship is a bad thing. Better make those tanks reasonably large, but also reasonably boxy and armored! You could also just put it out on the end of a wing too.
    Different Mechanic idea (might replace or supplement other mechanics): When damaged, a particular group of fuel tanks begins to leak up to 1% of its total capacity every 5 seconds or something like that. This leak only applies to the group which lost a block. This would encourage you to not simply put all your fuel in a single tank, while the explosion mechanics encourage you not to just make small 1-size tanks all over the ship to get around leaks.


    Ship Core: The Ship Core has been discovered come with a small built-in fuel storage of its own! Will the amazing technology in this wonder never cease to amaze us?! What else could possibly be hidden within its black box of technology?!
    -(put another way, all ships regardless of size have some fuel capacity even without fuel tanks, the same way they have some power capacity without capacitors. Stations would also have this, to a smaller degree.)


    Fuel Supply Beam Computer, and Fuel Supply Beam: Short range "beams" that transfer fuel from one entity to another. Useful to put on a refueling ship, and can also be placed on a station (for instance, to allow faction members to refuel their larger vessels for free, such that only non-faction members have to buy it from the station shop).


    Fuel Refinery: This is a factory block, and thus follows the restrictions any other factory block has (no putting it on ships). It requires ice, ice crystals, or water to make the fuel.





    Bonus Opinions: My thoughts on fueled thrusters (since I am making a topic about fuel).

    1. The current in-game thruster should still exist, and should continue to NOT need fuel. Only energy. If you want some explaination for this magic, you can say that it is a gravitic thruster and thus produces thrust via a reactionless mechanism. This can also be used to explain why it can apply said thrust equally in all 6 directions.

    2. Any thrusters that do need fuel should be "advanced" or specialized thruster variants. Similar to how the Fuel Reactor is kind of an "advanced" version of the normal reactor. If both fueled thrusters and fueled reactors are added, they should both use the same type of fuel too, to keep things simple. Ideas for such parts can include:

    -Fueled Thruster and Fueled Thruster Computer: Thrust (and fuel use) increases based on group size, similar to a power capacitor and the Fuel Reactors. Uses fuel and only a little energy, and is generally much stronger than a normal thruster. However, it only works in the direction it is facing. The computer is optional, but allows you to turn all connected thrusters on and off at will easily, as well as adding effect computers to it for various bonuses. Overdrive greatly increases thrust but reduces fuel efficiency, ion greatly improves efficiency but also increases energy cost, push can increase the thrust and fuel cost by up to 100%, pull can allow the thruster to work in the opposite direction with up to 100% of its normal thrust, explosive can give a free boost to thrust at no extra cost, except that the thruster now explodes violently when it takes damage, etc.
    -The thrust generated by these is not re-allocated via the thruster menu.

    -Manuevering Thruster: Allows a ship to turn faster, by using fuel.
    -The manueviering power generated by these is not re-allocated via the thruster menu and remains available for rotation even if the thruster menu has it set to 0%.

    I could go on, but there are already topics about fuel requirements for thrusters. The important thing IMO is that we keep our free energy-only thrusters AND our free no-upkeep reactors, even if we add fuel and reactors and/or thrusters that use said fuel.
     
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    Current problem with docked reactors is that theyre.... docked....
    Sm seems to cause a ton of lag when you have numerous docked entities lying about :/
    Some way of intergrating them into a ship while still being somewhat seperate would definatly be welcomed!

    I also quite like the complexity of docked reactors XD

    I quite like using Ice/water to generate fuel though

    +1
     

    BJammin

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    Although I have been dabbling in docked reactors recently (egads, not another one!), I would definitely like some sort of ship-based boosted auxiliary power system that's less, well, laggy. However, ideas regarding alternate power have been shot around many times before, and still, nothing new it seems, is on the horizon. Hate to say it, but the chances of any version of this concept coming about seem slim; in the distant future at best. The fueled thrusters seem interesting, but a lot of what you mentioned is already in the game in some form or another (push/pull effect to accelerate ships in the direction they face, re-calibrating thruster percentages to increase maneuverability, etc.) I know, they aren't using fuel of any kind, but adding in a redundant system that does have a resource requirement seems a bit unnecessary.
     
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    Technically, you could still continue to use docked reactors since the current energy reactors would still function as they do now (and presumably, so would the current power supply beams). They would of course continue to have their performance issues unless they find a way to fix that. And some servers might disallow them to avoid lag if there are viable non-docked alternatives (such as a fueled reactor with no soft cap) were available.

    And while many ideas have been shot down, most of them seem to stem from people who want to COMPLETELY replace free energy or thrust with fuel requirements. And frankly, I don't like those ideas any more than most of the naysayers. I want to keep my free thrust, and my free energy.

    That is why I suggested this with the express interest that the current systems remain in-game, along with their current limits. The soft power cap of the current reactors can serve as the reason for a person to use the fueled reactors on a large enough ship. For small and medium-sized ships, you can likely get away with only using the current reactors.

    That said, the fuel reactors would potentially open some interesting concepts for small vessels too. You could use them to make a high-powered smaller vessel that can only fight for a short time, for instance.
     
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    Technically, you could still continue to use docked reactors since the current energy reactors would still function as they do now (and presumably, so would the current power supply beams). They would of course continue to have their performance issues unless they find a way to fix that. And some servers might disallow them to avoid lag if there are viable non-docked alternatives (such as a fueled reactor with no soft cap) were available.

    And while many ideas have been shot down, most of them seem to stem from people who want to COMPLETELY replace free energy or thrust with fuel requirements. And frankly, I don't like those ideas any more than most of the naysayers. I want to keep my free thrust, and my free energy.

    That is why I suggested this with the express interest that the current systems remain in-game, along with their current limits. The soft power cap of the current reactors can serve as the reason for a person to use the fueled reactors on a large enough ship. For small and medium-sized ships, you can likely get away with only using the current reactors.

    That said, the fuel reactors would potentially open some interesting concepts for small vessels too. You could use them to make a high-powered smaller vessel that can only fight for a short time, for instance.
    Anything to make bombers/fighter wings more viable XD
     
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    I like the idea of consumable supplies. It makes for an additional logistics component besides just "Do I have enough blocks to spawn another titan?"

    I'd suggest multiple sources of fuel as well. Meaning that these fuel blocks are magical, self-sealing fuel containers that can burn/hold several types of fuel. Each type does something different:
    Common fuels:
    Hydrogen/oxygen for chemical burn (Basic processed water).
    Biofuel: Remains of plants or your enemies animals. (Just harvest plants and process them into something else. No new block required)
    Anything that can be ionized (And then used in a fueled thruster....requiring both power (Or another source of fuel) and fuel, but perhaps generating increased thrust)
    Intermediate rarity:
    Fission fuels of all sorts. Uranium, plutonium. Need to be refined.
    Rare (Not necessarily uncommon, just hard to use):
    Fusion fuels such as hydrogen collected from gas giants, stars, and nebula.
    Hydrogen processed from water (Heavily processed water)

    One other note: Don't make fueled thrusters direction-dependent. That's just unnecessary.
     
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    I like the idea of consumable supplies. It makes for an additional logistics component besides just "Do I have enough blocks to spawn another titan?"

    I'd suggest multiple sources of fuel as well. Meaning that these fuel blocks are magical, self-sealing fuel containers that can burn/hold several types of fuel. Each type does something different:
    Common fuels:
    Hydrogen/oxygen for chemical burn (Basic processed water).
    Biofuel: Remains of plants or your enemies animals. (Just harvest plants and process them into something else. No new block required)
    Anything that can be ionized (And then used in a fueled thruster....requiring both power (Or another source of fuel) and fuel, but perhaps generating increased thrust)
    Intermediate rarity:
    Fission fuels of all sorts. Uranium, plutonium. Need to be refined.
    Rare (Not necessarily uncommon, just hard to use):
    Fusion fuels such as hydrogen collected from gas giants, stars, and nebula.
    Hydrogen processed from water (Heavily processed water)

    One other note: Don't make fueled thrusters direction-dependent. That's just unnecessary.
    Did you just successfully copy stuff from a different thread to add to this conversation? Or is this a very strange coincidence? Anyways, I'll just put a lil link here: Power Overhaul Ideas

    As for you KuramaFox : Fuel, as a replacement for docked reactors.
    Recognized - Fuel mechanic proposal
    If you came up with this suggestion yourself, GJ you are now mainstream :D it is still a good suggestion though.
     
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    Thanks. I had looked around a bit, but for the most part what I saw was fuel being mentioned for thrusters, not reactors (though, I did throw some quick thoughts on thrusters at the end since it put the thought in my mind). But yeah, I could easily see people thinking of similar things before.

    Clearly, I didn't look quite hard enough. Good to see I'm not alone in my thoughts at least.

    The main thing I wanted to address was for the idea to NOT be required for players to use, and I even came up with a reasonably logical explaination for why reactors without fuel can still exist in a universe that also has reactors that DO need fuel.

    Gameplay-wise, it is necessary to keep "free" reactors for the sake of simplicity and allowing reasonably easy access to the game for new players or experienced players without many resources yet (I mention I strongly believe this to be the case for thrusters too, in the event we ever get thrusters that require fuel).

    Another thought was to come up with a different way of allowing players to build giant ships, without needing to use docked reactors to supply the necessary power.

    Reactors being taken out from one destroyed block, but also increasing in power-per-block with size like capacitors would also encourage some balance in designs using them (if you have just one reactor on your titan, you could potentially lose the majority of your power from getting hit with a deeply piercing cannon shot).


    The other thread's idea that the fuel tanks must be touching the reactor they fuel is interesting.

    That said, I do stand by my thought of them (or ANYTHING which uses a limited ship resource like fuel) at least having the OPTION to be hooked up to a "reactor computer" or something similar, to allow them to be turned on and off at the captain's discression. And perhaps optionally to also have things you can do with effects computers to alter it in some way.
     
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    Did you just successfully copy stuff from a different thread to add to this conversation? Or is this a very strange coincidence? Anyways, I'll just put a lil link here: Power Overhaul Ideas
    *snip*
    Coincidence, as I really disagree with adding lots of blocks, each to use a different fuel. There's no real need. That said, there's only so many types of fuel you can collect and use...so the ideas sound similar.
     
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