A Vaygr Officer's Testimony against the Vaygr Empire

[Captain_Boroski]

Considering what just happened I felt it appropriate reiterate my previous statement.

Nastral, you innocent poor little boy.
If there's rock-bottom of being a cheesy cheating absolutely moronic excuse of a faction, then vaygr dug itself atleast three kilometers into that thinking they'll come above on the other side.

Your efforts to "mediate" or playing the part of good samatarian is completely wasted here.

(Graphic content removed. Thingie~)

 

[Lecic]

I admire your giant balls for actually having the courage to admit all this RedAlert_007 .

If you ever need help lugging those bad boys around just let me know

Y-you forgot your no homo fam

 

[Comr4de]

Quoted Content Removed By Mods

 

[Keptick]

Y-you forgot your no homo fam

Fixed :P

 

[ZektorSK]

Wow, did not expect that

 

[The Judge]

Does this mean I'm still Aceface?

 

[CyberTao]

Hah.

Its been what, 3 years since I was in vaygr? Good to know Zoro hasn't changed at all.

 

[ZektorSK]

I literally came to see some new posts after a long time, but I discovered this "Murrica" like a true "Combullus"

 

[Jaaskinal]

So, I don't mean to sound like an asshole here, not because I'm not one, but because I'm trying to suggest something productive here.

Knowing that Vaygr has exploited is well and good, and having them banned from a couple servers for a couple months is alright by me, but it doesn't really solve the problem, does it? Just like on the forums, they could come back with alt accounts to continue to play wherever they like. I think most people who know me know that I'm fairly open about my use of exploits (admittedly after I use them, not before, lol) and so I feel like I can kinda understand what Zoro is and was thinking.

Banning cheaters long after the fact doesn't actually solve anything, what really needs to happen is both fixes to existing exploits, and ways to detect future exploits. IIRC some people have made wares that can detect if a blueprint has been manipulated. Things like that on servers would be invaluable in the fight against exploitation.

Everyone is going to cheat all the time unless there's some motive against it. I can't think of a single person I've played with who hasn't accepted cheating on some level to gain an advantage over their opponent. I hate to call you out Lecic, but IIRC back in Thryn 1.0 on EE, you didn't mind our abuse of the asteroid respawn system to dupe items.

In all fairness, I have no expectation of anything I want to happen to happen. Cheating should simply be expected and accepted as part of gameplay.

 

[JinM]

At least at first. Then it became a sport who can break the game better, and suddenly it felt like victory was spoiled. By the flames we received after each battle and by the feeling that we didn't play fair. And while it was easy to justify that by "Fair play is for the playground, not the battleground", I hadto remind myself that Starmade IS A PLAYGROUND.

I agree , Starmade is a game aka playground, and not a battleground.

But that's the thing with the competetive environmnet: There are allways toxic idiots in every game, who just take it too serious instead of looking if its fun for everyone.

You know there is this practise in Dota 2 to trashtalk the enemy, to get inside their head, so they get distracted from the actual game. Now this is seen as unfair allready there. But here in Starmade...cheating is cool, spoiling fun for others is even better.

And I wanna remind everyone of one thing: Cheating sux, and everyone who thinks different can't be helped or argued with.

 

[Airis Damon]

I read RedAlert. My hat's off to Vaygr. They managed to replicate Washingtonian politics in a crafting space MMO.

 

[Coyote27]

Cheating should simply be expected and accepted as part of gameplay.

As someone who's admittedly new to Starmade, but not at all new to gaming in general or unfinished alpha/beta games in particular, I have to respectfully but strongly disagree with this sentiment.
Gaming is, in essence, a social contract.
As players, we have the responsibility to report bugs and exploits to the devs so they can be fixed; and the right to expect a fix to be forthcoming.
The developers have the responsibility to fix these exploits and bugs, and a right to be informed about them as soon as they are discovered.
Between the players themselves, we each have the right to expect fair play, and the responsibility to provide that fair play.
Breaching this common understanding at any level is harmful to both the game and the community.

 

[Zyrr]

As someone who's admittedly new to Starmade, but not at all new to gaming in general or unfinished alpha/beta games in particular, I have to respectfully but strongly disagree with this sentiment.
Gaming is, in essence, a social contract.
As players, we have the responsibility to report bugs and exploits to the devs so they can be fixed; and the right to expect a fix to be forthcoming.
The developers have the responsibility to fix these exploits and bugs, and a right to be informed about them as soon as they are discovered.
Between the players themselves, we each have the right to expect fair play, and the responsibility to provide that fair play.
Breaching this common understanding at any level is harmful to both the game and the community.

Expecting it to occur is not the same as agreeing with it. As someone who is a veteran of both online multiplayer games and StarMade, even if you strip the concept of a game down to its absolute basics there will always be ways to exploit or overtly cheat. It's just simply the way that games work.

You have to play with the expectation and acceptance that there will always be someone who is doing it, or you're deluding yourself. It doesn't mean you have to like it.

 

[Indigo Slimez]

Although my shitty, imature personallity makes everything I say irrelevant, I'm still going to post, because my ego demands it.

Firstly, this is just stupid, this entire thread, and the actions of people posting on it are just stupid. Although it's undoubtedly clear that vaygr has been exploiting (as it has been for as long as I can remeber) it's still not right in my opinion to label the whole faction as 'toxic' and 'cheaters' just because of the actions of a few of its members, post a thread saying that these specific people have been exploiting, not just the whole faction, it isn't fair on the members, that have been lied to by their leaders to be labelled as 'exploiters' or whatever just because of the name of the faction their in.


(And I'm not going to say anything else because I don't want to be hated more than I already am/doxxed)

 

[Thingie]

Although my shitty, imature personallity makes everything I say irrelevant, I'm still going to post, because my ego demands it.

Firstly, this is just stupid, this entire thread, and the actions of people posting on it are just stupid. Although it's undoubtedly clear that vaygr has been exploiting (as it has been for as long as I can remeber) it's still not right in my opinion to label the whole faction as 'toxic' and 'cheaters' just because of the actions of a few of its members, post a thread saying that these specific people have been exploiting, not just the whole faction, it isn't fair on the members, that have been lied to by their leaders to be labelled as 'exploiters' or whatever just because of the name of the faction their in.


(And I'm not going to say anything else because I don't want to be hated more than I already am/doxxed)

It was stated it was only the higher ups in the faction that knew and participated in this. The faction as a whole isn't toxic but having leaders that do these things makes the faction titled so. A sad reality of this world, that's how things are online and IRL.

 

[kulbolen]

In all fairness, I have no expectation of anything I want to happen to happen.

well, it may not be a full solution, but this has led to some fixes for the most cancerous and notorious survival mode exploits.

 

[Mortiferum]

Lmao what, do you not remember that Zoro is the one who posted Azereiah's face in chat? Stop listening to his lies.

I actually dont even know about what happened in chat.
[doublepost=1503357133,1503356797][/doublepost]

It was stated it was only the higher ups in the faction that knew and participated in this. The faction as a whole isn't toxic but having leaders that do these things makes the faction titled so. A sad reality of this world, that's how things are online and IRL.

This thread does a good job of turning it into a public lynching of other non involved members though.

 

[Indigo Slimez]

It was stated it was only the higher ups in the faction that knew and participated in this. The faction as a whole isn't toxic but having leaders that do these things makes the faction titled so. A sad reality of this world, that's how things are online and IRL.

I have to respectfully disagree, this still isn't real life, and should not be treated as such. when it comes down to it, this is a game, people part of a certain community within that game should not be shunned and given lables just because of the actions of some members of the community, ESPECIALLY if they have had no knowledge of it. You don't get arrested and thrown in prison for being friends with someone who commits a crime, you get arrested and thrown in prison for having knowledge of the person commiting the crime and not saying anything about it/encouraging it.

 

[Zackey_TNT]

Threatening to release information to damage someone IRL isn't a desire to harm actual real people?

I wasn't aware of this, and as such cannot condone it. In fact, that entirely defeats my argument, because vaygr did have every intention to murder someone's life, and as such should be treated with criminal disgust.

"Wow things are too easy for us, let's start spawning stuff for free to make it even easier!"

Example: Drug Addict.

Lmao what, do you not remember that Zoro is the one who posted Azereiah's face in chat? Stop listening to his lies.

I wasn't aware of this either.

It would seem that everything vaygr is getting right now is justly deserved...
I was merely trying to help a man while he's down, but it seems vaygr is entirely nonredeemable at this stage.
[doublepost=1503358310,1503358025][/doublepost]

I have to respectfully disagree, this still isn't real life, and should not be treated as such. when it comes down to it, this is a game, people part of a certain community within that game should not be shunned and given lables just because of the actions of some members of the community, ESPECIALLY if they have had no knowledge of it. You don't get arrested and thrown in prison for being friends with someone who commits a crime, you get arrested and thrown in prison for having knowledge of the person commiting the crime and not saying anything about it/encouraging it.

The actions of vaygr effected people in real life, and indangered someone's legal standing with an NDA threat. These are serious. If the company you sign a NDA for is large enough, you could be in for a life-long sentence and millions of dollars in fees.

This goes beyond the game itself, and now is outside of any moral justification. Vaygr's leadership have broken international law, and in doing so now risk being sent to prison, over a video game, there is no justification for that.
[doublepost=1503358409][/doublepost]

I actually dont even know about what happened in chat.
[doublepost=1503357133,1503356797][/doublepost]

This thread does a good job of turning it into a public lynching of other non involved members though.

I commend you for your loyal attempts to justify this, but when even the moderators of starmade dock lynch you, it's over.

 

[Sachys]

You don't get arrested and thrown in prison for being friends with someone who commits a crime

sadly, this is entirely untrue. not trying to devalue your point, just make it clear what you have said is not a universal truth, and point out you may require a more perfect metaphor to clearly and genuinely pass your point along.