Planned Faction Points Economy

[ZektorSK]

:p



First of all, again, your obsession with yourself and Ryu. Seriously, just bang already. You'd get much more satisfaction. :p

Second of all, I'd rather not piss off the mods, again. So I'll try to keep this from becoming even slightly flamey (Even then I'm overstepping my bounds a bit, pls don't hurt me). :p

 

[Blaza612]

...

Alrighty then. I think we've had enough off the rails, eh, "discussion", for today. :p

 

[ZektorSK]

...

Alrighty then. I think we've had enough off the rails, eh, "discussion", for today. :p

Then I should end it:
If you have problems with my writing style, and meme style then you have to deal with that.It is an original way, that only I do, and don't think, I will just leave Ryuko out of nowhere in some dark streets.

Besides, you need more life fibers, you are just lacking of them.

 

[Madman198237]

Really, the pool idea is not a broken system simply because you say it is. What is the reasoning? Why does redistributing points take away from this economy? Exactly why, not "It does" or "Randomness destroys planning". My idea is not the random redistribution among factions, which would truly be ridiculous (Oooh look, this faction just died, let's hand a million FP to whoever), but instead the use of a system to redistribute FP into other systems (Giving a temporary boost to the faction claiming the previously unclaimed system, who could get a few more FP out of it) instead of just turning protection into a ridiculously unusable system:

Protecting a mining vessel and then giving enemies your FP for free is the same, really, as not having the protection in the first place! You'll give the enemy almost the same advantage as if you'd let them destroy the vessel for free.

Nobody'd use it, because it'd be far better just to use the extra time, not building another mining vessel or getting those FP back, but instead just docking the mining vessel back at your HB, or a nearly indestructible station of some kind.


That is what I'd call a broken, useless system. The idea behind the protection I'm proposing is that FP is temporarily taken out of the galactic pool (All available FP) and then put back in somehow. Kindly read my post from earlier today, where I mentioned that another possible method for reintroducing FP is to give half the FP an attacker/victor gains from the losing faction, and the other half (If possible) from this pool, in order to keep FP flowing.

There could be other uses for FP, but none I can think of now. Regardless, FP is going to be consumed in some places, barring some revelation that changes everything, and we can't just go around handing FP off to other factions---it'd make any mechanics that do so basically unusable. Especially considering that the basis of warfare and really all faction procedures in this system would be preventing the enemy from acquiring any of your limited supply of FP, and taking as much of theirs as possible.
We can't try to hand these FP off, it'd basically make it a "camp the (Insert target here) until it's protected and can't fight back, then steal it's FP", instead of any sort of planning.

 

[StarWars1981]

An additional idea for FP usage: I'm not sure if it's been mentioned/denied/planned/(other) anywhere, but perhaps have a faction point cost per faction-aligned station per time. Because so far we're distributing FPs and not really using them in this economy, just throwing them around like candy (in this discussion, I mean).
If it costs FP to maintain various items - like Fleets and stations (I bet this is planned somewhere, but it should be brought into the discussion as another side to this whole mess) - then there's a reason(ish) behind getting FP for wrecking a fleet - they put FP into it, they didn't just generate *poof* a fleet's worth of FP with their Titan-sized miner and supersized shipyard.
Protection is a neat idea. However, if the enemy gets FP for attacking something YOU PROTECTED, read it all, that you protected to keep it SAFE while you're offline, that voids the purpose. I'm kinda changing my views here, but I thought about it more.
I pay, say, 500 FP to defend my 5K block minercube overnight so that I don't come back tomorrow and find it and its, Idk, million-credit cargo floating in a million particles in space. I will NOT use this if, by merely ATTACKING IT ANYWAY, the jerks of a faction get the FP, and then get to blow the ship anyway cause they shot it all away. That's like trading FP for armor on a ship.
If, however, that protection costs me FP, and the ship is immortal til I return and enter it, and then 499 FP (I was off slightly less than I planned, let's say) is deducted for the cost, where does it go?
A galactic pool seems to be reasonable. This pool is short-term - if I protect a massive area of the galaxy (one-man-faction-army-spacefleet-airforce-supersoldier) so I don't lose it overnight, the FP, at the end of the night when I unlock it all, go into this pool. It stays for, oh, Idk, an hour, until FP are handed out for player activity and area control according to the timer. Then, it is tossed at random (in small packets) to many, many uninhabited, unexplored, unclaimed systems in the galaxy. This gives a bonus to exploration when there are wars going on between established factions. So the new players have SOMEWHERE to go.

Yes, it will take some work and balancing. Don't dismiss it so fast. Yes, that's got problems. But it's a nice idea - think about it, as land is occupied, unoccupied land (or systems, whatever) becomes a premium, and is worth more. Guess what? Space is worth something.
YES! I've proved that VACUUM is valuable!
Another Text Wall by StarWars1981
TL;DR Summary: FP cost per station/fleet/owned planet to add a point to them in the discussed economy.
A reward for breaking said FP-costing things - set upon mass, that defense-offense-mobility point system, block count, whatever.
Protection means item is immortal until A. FP runs out or B. you return and disable the protection. Subtracted FP goes into galactic pool until next FP distribution and is then placed into various uninhabited systems.

 

[Blaza612]

My idea is not the random redistribution among factions

wat

Then what the fuck have I been arguing against the entire time? :p

So, if the distribution between systems isn't random, then it's in the local area? Well that's certainly better. You really aren't good at explaining things, are you? :p

turning protection into a ridiculously unusable system

I'd just like to point out that protection shall be changing as soon as SOMEONE actually gives their opinion on it.

You'll give the enemy almost the same advantage as if you'd let them destroy the vessel for free

Eh, wat? Do you believe that attacking a protected vessel withers away at the protection, and it can eventually be destroyed?

You do realise I never stated that, right? I said they'd be invulnerable for the time set. I never said the protection could be destroyed.

Because so far we're distributing FPs and not really using them in this economy, just throwing them around like candy (in this discussion, I mean).

Are you high? I don't mean to be rude, but are you? We're using them plenty. Especially if you're at war, or want to claim a system.

If it costs FP to maintain various items - like Fleets and stations

NOPE! This discussion has been had, and it simply isn't good. I'm not gonna bother explaining it for the tenth time, if you wish you can dig out the thread.

I bet this is planned somewhere

Nope. And I sure as hell hope it doesn't become planned. SkylordLuke, YOU BETTER READ THAT PART!

shot it all away

Again, you cannot destroy someone's protection. Protection = thing is invulnerable. FOR A SET PERIOD OF TIME.

random

Jesus no. Please read previous discussion about this.

This gives a bonus to exploration

WE'VE BEEN OVER THIS! Have you completely forgotten EVERYTHING I've said previously?

 

[SkylordLuke]

wat

Then what the fuck have I been arguing against the entire time? :p

So, if the distribution between systems isn't random, then it's in the local area? Well that's certainly better. You really aren't good at explaining things, are you? :p



I'd just like to point out that protection shall be changing as soon as SOMEONE actually gives their opinion on it.



Eh, wat? Do you believe that attacking a protected vessel withers away at the protection, and it can eventually be destroyed?

You do realise I never stated that, right? I said they'd be invulnerable for the time set. I never said the protection could be destroyed.



Are you high? I don't mean to be rude, but are you? We're using them plenty. Especially if you're at war, or want to claim a system.



NOPE! This discussion has been had, and it simply isn't good. I'm not gonna bother explaining it for the tenth time, if you wish you can dig out the thread.



Nope. And I sure as hell hope it doesn't become planned. SkylordLuke, YOU BETTER READ THAT PART!



Again, you cannot destroy someone's protection. Protection = thing is invulnerable. FOR A SET PERIOD OF TIME.



Jesus no. Please read previous discussion about this.



WE'VE BEEN OVER THIS! Have you completely forgotten EVERYTHING I've said previously?

dont worry Blaza :D I said this is planned because devs do have plans to use faction points to create another level of economy and use them for a lot of other stuff,I didnt say all those suggestions from OP are those exact plans that devs have

 

[ZektorSK]

Why don't you guys reply with just one big quote ? This is like archive of quotes, and it is too big

 

[Crashmaster]

Why don't you guys reply with just one big quote ? This is like archive of quotes, and it is too big

...If you have problems with my writing style, and meme style then you have to deal with that...

If you have problems with peoples quoting style and what they chose to discuss then you have to deal with that.

 

[ZektorSK]

If you have problems with peoples quoting style and what they chose to discuss then you have to deal with that.

Don't start a flame... this thread is already full of flame wars

 

[Crashmaster]

Not flaming, you shouldn't be insulted, just educated about hypocrisy.

 

[ZektorSK]

Not flaming, you shouldn't be insulted, just educated about hypocrisy.

Hipocrysi ?
You know there is a difference between Ryuko, and sometimes gifs, and big reply that could fit on 5 A4

 

[Crashmaster]

Yes, but I now see that I need to spell it out to you;

You are critical about other peoples' posting style in the very same thread as you refuse to take any criticism about your own posting style. That's all.

I'll also throw out there that one style is useless and wastes bandwidth (typically it seems without adding anything relevant to the discussion), while the other is an attempt to organize a conversation with multiple people. But that's just my opinion.

 

[ZektorSK]

Yes, but I now see that I need to spell it out to you;

You are critical about other peoples' posting style in the very same thread as you refuse to take any criticism about your own posting style. That's all.

I'll also throw out there that one style is useless and wastes bandwidth (typically it seems without adding anything relevant to the discussion), while the other is an attempt to organize a conversation with multiple people. But that's just my opinion.

Well, this is the only thread I see such posting......

Ryu. stuff is just some variation to my posts, so it feels different, and original.I don't think it is useless, KLK just gives these post more life, and some funny moments.

 

[Madman198237]

Blaza, when Star is talking random, he's talking about the same idea that I am.

The redistribution of FP among unexplored systems. Not among local areas, though that IS an interesting alternative, but in systems that nobody has ever harvested FP (Preferably) or that nobody IS harvesting FP in. Though I do like the idea that wherever the FP is lost is where it is respawned... Anyway.

I've given my ideas about protection: Pay for it, FP is consumed at the end of it and redistributed later. Ship/station/planet/rock in space is COMPLETELY immobile and inactive. No turrets, no accessing it to build or change anything, nothing.

You missed the point with this third objection. The idea that protection should give FP to the attacker is what I'm arguing against, whether or not it's in the OP, which, frankly, doesn't matter. We're bouncing ideas around to decide what would be "best" in our collective madness opinion. Protection should make the protected object invulnerable for that amount of time. It should NOT, however, give the attacker FP. The goal of attacking in our FP economy here would be gaining FP. Protecting an asset like this would just be handing enemies FP.

By "not using" Star means that it appears to be too easy to move FP from faction to faction and that there's been a grand total of ONE idea as to how to consume this FP.

Alrighty, calm yourself. This is not a war, this is a discussion. It's not an unreasonable idea, but I'd modify it in this way:
It costs FP to CREATE a fleet, add members to a fleet, to CREATE a station. No upkeep (Perhaps), but you invest FP into expanding your faction's capabilities.

Yeah, I disagree with destroying protection as well. Why protect it if the enemy's just gonna bring a titan in to destroy the ship AND the FP you invested in protecting it? Are we paying for the advantage of extra shields now?

OK, who on earth made you the end-all be-all for discussion? Star's opinion, and mine, is that distributing the FP out like this would create reasons to explore and find the perfect system...other that "Hey, the enemy's pretty far away now, let's set up shop here". You do not start or end discussion on this topic, we can continue to discuss it and suggest better ways to move FP around the galaxy if we so choose.

So, in short, you've failed to convince him that that particular facet of his idea is not beneficial. Do something about it. Since you seem to think he's misread something you've already posted, quote it so he can see. Don't just go all-caps and treat your peers like children.

 

[Blaza612]

dont worry Blaza

\o/

I said this is planned because devs do have plans to use faction points to create another level of economy and use them for a lot of other stuff

Ah, well waddya know? :p

I didnt say all those suggestions from OP are those exact plans that devs have

I'm aware. I just don't know if you're aware of the changes that occur. :p

this thread is already full of flame wars

wat

It is? Where?

Well, this is the only thread I see such posting

It's just how I do dis stuff. :p

I don't think it is useless

Hmmm, I don't know. Would you consider completely irrelevant and annoying posting in a place where it doesn't belong useless? I'm not sure, what you think? :p

Blaza, when Star is talking random, he's talking about the same idea that I am

I'm 99.9% sure that when someone says random, they imply random, not the direct opposite. :p

The redistribution of FP among unexplored systems

This doesn't work. Having it put into the systems that the faction owns would actually work, and that's what I thought after last reply, but apparently not. The thing is, this opens up the situation of a random faction coming in and taking those FP suddenly. Not only that, but it means that a faction will have to put effort into getting the reward that they deserve after a battle.

Protecting an asset like this would just be handing enemies FP

Exactly. That is EXACTLY how I wanted it. It adds one hell of an incentive NOT to use it. What's the biggest problem with any protection? Abuse. It doesn't matter how much it costs, it can still be abused, especially if the faction using it can harvest it back. If no one wants to kill them, then they can use it as much as they want, but the moment someone wants to kill them, the incentive to use it goes away. If it didn't go to the attacker, then the priority of the faction using the protection would be to gather as much FP as possible to protect everything. BUT, if they are consequentially giving FP to the enemy faction, then all of a sudden protection becomes something that requires planning and a significant amount of thought, and wont be used so often. Do they want to risk giving FP to their enemy? Is it really worth it? Etc. Do ye understand? This too, was a pain in the ass to try and describe. :p

Alrighty, calm yourself

Wat? I am calm?

ONE

Two. :p

It costs FP to CREATE a fleet, add members to a fleet, to CREATE a station. No upkeep (Perhaps), but you invest FP into expanding your faction's capabilities.

I see why you want to add things to consume it, but this really isn't the way to do it. This will be treating FP as a sort physical resource, whereas it's an abstract resource. It's meant to represent a political prowess compared to other factions, since it'll always be gained from progress. I'm all for adding more to consume the FP, however in this case, the consumption will be when interacting with other factions, as this is a key point of FP. Maybe it could be used for setting up stations in another faction's territory? I'm not entirely sure what to use it for, but to create fleets and stations in general certainly isn't the way to do it.

Are we paying for the advantage of extra shields now?

Yes. :p

create reasons to explore and find the perfect system

Again, FP has nothing to do with exploration. There will be plenty of things that'll create an incentive to explore, and FP does not need to be one. It's just silly. Already FP will be a major reason for a faction to expand, putting the FP into uninhabited systems just creates another barrier to rewards and the overall progression of a faction.

OK, who on earth made you the end-all be-all for discussion

wat?

You do not start or end discussion on this topic

Where did this come from?

we can continue to discuss it

Who said you couldn't?

all-caps

Oh. Really? Caps is just a means of adding emphasis because italics or underlining doesn't work nearly as well. Caps stand out much better compared to italics or underlining, hence I use it.

treat your peers like children

Well, I DID say that exploration isn't related to FP, and that other things will cover exploration. Rather than just having a technical gain from it, why not something that interests you? Like lore or research or something, make exploration there to EXPLORE, not to gain.

 

[ZektorSK]

Hmmm, I don't know. Would you consider completely irrelevant and annoying posting in a place where it doesn't belong useless? I'm not sure, what you think? :p

 

[Zyrr]

Then I should end it:
If you have problems with my writing style, and meme style then you have to deal with that.It is an original way, that only I do, and don't think, I will just leave Ryuko out of nowhere in some dark streets.

Besides, you need more life fibers, you are just lacking of them.

 

[Ithirahad]

Why shouldn't protected assets function, so long as they aren't ships? The whole point of homebase protection is that factions can have a safe place to hang out, work on designs, etc... Perhaps having things like factories running on a protected structure can cost a significant quantity of faction points per unit produced, and shipyards can cost some number of faction points (20?) per block on the ship built. Working on an invincible station should be a privilege, neither impossible nor trivial, but feasible for larger factions.

Otherwise, I agree fully with this idea. It works better if the map gets revamped, though.

 

[ZektorSK]

Why shouldn't protected assets function, so long as they aren't ships? The whole point of homebase protection is that factions can have a safe place to hang out, work on designs, etc... Perhaps having things like factories running on a protected structure can cost a significant quantity of faction points per unit produced, and shipyards can cost some number of faction points (20?) per block on the ship built. Working on an invincible station should be a privilege, neither impossible nor trivial, but feasible for larger factions.

Otherwise, I agree fully with this idea. It works better if the map gets revamped, though.

No... it is a bad idea
You know, when you start a faction you don't have much of faction points, so it would be unfair to new players.And, when you realize that today's factories make 1000 units per 5seconds, it would totally ruin your faction.