Read by Council Simple and balanced Mobile Shipyards

[Lithrus]

We've had shipyards for some time on Starmade, but it'd be nice if people could say, build ships on the spot as needed, live nomadically,

To start off: Yes, I know there have been other posts about this, but many of them ask for complicated systems or massive nerfs.

I'm proposing a system where shipyard systems would be able to exist on a shipyard.

Spoiler: Mobile Shipyard Usage

USE OF SHIPYARD:
Simple, just plop down a shipyard computer/modules and get to work.
For balancing reasons, it may be better to restrict manufacturing of parts themselves to stations, however, mobile shipyards can utilize these materials by storing them and manufacturing ships on the spot.

BALANCING:
Well, there's already a balancing mechanic: No making parts and no homebase protection.
However, such attempts as this at making mobile shipyard suggestions have failed from not finding a balance between nerfing and exploitation.

Here's a way I see it balanced:
It should take TIME to build ships on a mobile shipyard, such as a base time of 3 blocks/sec (Just an example), and quite possibly have a "Progress bar" similar to that of a factory, that fills up as more blocks are loaded into the building of the ship.

This would nerf building massive ships on the spot, and instead taking time to build.

But you ask, how would you be able to control the speed in a balanced way?

Factory Enhancers (Or a new "Shipyard Enhancer" block) may be connected to the Shipyard Computer to increase the blocks added to the progress bar per charge. Of course, these would consume ridiculous amounts of power to put into use, further deterring massive ship construction on mobile shipyards while still having it in the realm of possibility.

Spoiler: Pros and Cons

PROS:
-Great tactical use in battle
-No instant-construction
-Power usage deters shipyards on combat ships
-Able to live more "Nomadically" while still requiring a station for manufacturing of materials.
-Can build ships WHEN NEEDED to conserve materials
-Potential "Recycling" of used/old ships

CONS:
-Might be a bit hard to code
-Minor annoyance in PVP (Although still reasonable!)

Part of the inspiration for this suggestion came from the mobile shipyards of Homeworld 2, and just a simple annoyance of not being able to move shipyards or relocate them for proper use in battle.
Here's a picture if you want:

Thanks if you made it this far!

Please suggest and stuff, there's a reason no great game is made by one person: One person simply cannot come up with all the ideas!

Edit: Removed balancing spoiler. Too important to put in spoiler.


Please leave a comment and reply

 

[Drakkart]

iwant this and if you ask me the only restriction tied to stations should be that only a stationary structure should be able to serve as homebase and claim systems... anything else is some artificial holding back the games potential. if people opt for haveing mobile factories and shipyards, without that homebase protection, let them why the F*** not?

 

[Lithrus]

I completely agree Drakkart

 

[terra mining corp.]

maybe have a size limitation on ships built, ie: fighters,and corvettes made at battle front would be awesome.also you could give them less shielding adding the need to be in a protective fleet formation.

 

[Lithrus]

maybe have a size limitation on ships built, ie: fighters,and corvettes made at battle front would be awesome.also you could give them less shielding adding the need to be in a protective fleet formation.

In the balancing section, it states
"It should take TIME to build ships on a mobile shipyard, such as a base time of 3 blocks/sec (Just an example), and quite possibly have a "Progress bar" similar to that of a factory, that fills up as more blocks are loaded into the building of the ship."

This would nerf building massive ships on the spot, and instead taking time to build.

Essentially, it takes massive amounts of time to build large ships, and massive amounts of resources and power, both of which have to be on the ship.
[DOUBLEPOST=1456198182,1456195595][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, maybe it should lower the mobile shipyard's shields by like 50% or something when it's building a ship..

 

[Blaza612]

Capital Ships and Motherships

Apologies for shameless plug, but this has already been heavily discussed, and lead to a broken suggestion and then that one. If you are going to read it, please read the whole thing, instead of complaining after 'Class Limitations' :p

 

[Drakkart]

and my opinion has not changed ever since. No more artificial restrictions also no productionspeed limit. The only thing that should seperate a station from a ship should be a station can become a homebase everything else shouldbe the same. Yes, that shipyard could pump battlecruisers of immense size and firepower right next to your station and attack you. Guess what, someone so far ahead of you, military wise could also produce them first and then fly over, if you are not prepared for an incoming shipyard why should you be prepared for an incoming fleet? If you are not prepared the results stay the same you fears have nothing to do with the topic your fears just state meh that would be aweful and yes it would be still it has nothing to do with the fact that the fleet wrecking your place was produced by a carrier or mobile shipyard it would be the exact same devastation if a station had made the fleet.
If you are not prepared you are not prepared period.

a mobile shipyard is attackable a station homebase is not and a station can also claim a system as territory a ship can not. Hss nothing to do with a fleet could come and wreck my place, -welcome to pvp my friend yes a fleet could come and wreck your place - shocking news.

 

[kookster]

iwant this and if you ask me the only restriction tied to stations should be that only a stationary structure should be able to serve as homebase and claim systems... anything else is some artificial holding back the games potential. if people opt for haveing mobile factories and shipyards, without that homebase protection, let them why the F*** not?

100% agree. I think the additional mass and power usage is more then enough of a nerf by default.

 

[Heillos]

and my opinion has not changed ever since. No more artificial restrictions also no productionspeed limit. The only thing that should seperate a station from a ship should be a station can become a homebase everything else shouldbe the same. Yes, that shipyard could pump battlecruisers of immense size and firepower right next to your station and attack you. Guess what, someone so far ahead of you, military wise could also produce them first and then fly over, if you are not prepared for an incoming shipyard why should you be prepared for an incoming fleet? If you are not prepared the results stay the same you fears have nothing to do with the topic your fears just state meh that would be aweful and yes it would be still it has nothing to do with the fact that the fleet wrecking your place was produced by a carrier or mobile shipyard it would be the exact same devastation if a station had made the fleet.
If you are not prepared you are not prepared period.

a mobile shipyard is attackable a station homebase is not and a station can also claim a system as territory a ship can not. Hss nothing to do with a fleet could come and wreck my place, -welcome to pvp my friend yes a fleet could come and wreck your place - shocking news.

Okay, no. Let's not pretend that, in the current (or even planned, that I'm aware of) balance of the game, ships receiving all the capabilities of a station (besides homebaseing and system claiming) , free of downsides or balancing factors, would be balanced at all.

Such a ship would be altogether untraceable if a faction played it well. This is in the same way that any non-homebased station is already incredibly difficult (impossible) to locate: name it in the same manner as a pirate station, don't claim the system, and the odds of it being found by looking at the map drop to a solid 0. Worried about someone bumping into it? Move it a few systems above or below the galactic disk, problem gone. The odds are quite literally astronomically low, and we're not even in realistically-scaled space.

Due to the innately hidden nature of such a ship, the counter-play available to those faced with one (probably unknowingly, in fact) is also a solid 0. When presented with the homebase of an enemy, one has, at minimum, the opportunity to scout out their fleet development, as well as potential to harrass miners, steal things they forget to dock, and cause some small level of trouble. Furthermore, we know that Schine intends to develop this: first with fleets, so that NPCs can perform some of these tasks for us, and later by developing how factions interact with space (creating a need for more stations per faction, potentially balancing homebases, etc).

Mobile stations, with all of the things that factions care about (homebases only need to be invulnerable because they're inherently easy to locate, and factions only claim systems for mining; for which they use temporary stations anyway), with literally no downsides or potential counterplay (provided that they are used in the way I describe: which they will be, in case you're wondering), would surely be

100% agree. I think the additional mass and power usage is more then enough of a nerf by default.

Also a no. I'd be hard-pressed to tell you what a shipyard costs in terms of power (I'm perfectly able to look it up in the config, but this is not my point): It has simply never been enough to care about. Putting it on a ship won't change that.

As for the added mass, that doesn't matter much, either. Jump drives, given only 1 block per computer, charge in ~46 seconds. No slower, regardless of mass. Thanks to the existence of logic drives, almost any ship can jump around willy-nilly, without issue. The only issue that a mobile shipyard might face due to mass is turning/movement speed, which simply wouldn't matter: It [the hypothetical mobile shipyard] is already highly maneuverable on a sector-to-sector scale, and I can't imagine a reason for it to go anywhere at sublight speed, unless a faction wants to field one directly in combat.

Finally, Lithrus: At least you propose some counterbalances for this system. It'd still face the whole "can't be found at all" issue, but it isn't quite so ridiculous when the potential of it has at least been limited.

 

[Drakkart]

Okay, no. Let's not pretend that, in the current (or even planned, that I'm aware of) balance of the game, ships receiving all the capabilities of a station (besides homebaseing and system claiming) , free of downsides or balancing factors, would be balanced at all.

Such a ship would be altogether untraceable if a faction played it well. This is in the same way that any non-homebased station is already incredibly difficult (impossible) to locate: name it in the same manner as a pirate station, don't claim the system, and the odds of it being found by looking at the map drop to a solid 0. Worried about someone bumping into it? Move it a few systems above or below the galactic disk, problem gone. The odds are quite literally astronomically low, and we're not even in realistically-scaled space.

Due to the innately hidden nature of such a ship, the counter-play available to those faced with one (probably unknowingly, in fact) is also a solid 0. When presented with the homebase of an enemy, one has, at minimum, the opportunity to scout out their fleet development, as well as potential to harrass miners, steal things they forget to dock, and cause some small level of trouble. Furthermore, we know that Schine intends to develop this: first with fleets, so that NPCs can perform some of these tasks for us, and later by developing how factions interact with space (creating a need for more stations per faction, potentially balancing homebases, etc).

Mobile stations, with all of the things that factions care about (homebases only need to be invulnerable because they're inherently easy to locate, and factions only claim systems for mining; for which they use temporary stations anyway), with literally no downsides or potential counterplay (provided that they are used in the way I describe: which they will be, in case you're wondering), would surely be



Also a no. I'd be hard-pressed to tell you what a shipyard costs in terms of power (I'm perfectly able to look it up in the config, but this is not my point): It has simply never been enough to care about. Putting it on a ship won't change that.

As for the added mass, that doesn't matter much, either. Jump drives, given only 1 block per computer, charge in ~46 seconds. No slower, regardless of mass. Thanks to the existence of logic drives, almost any ship can jump around willy-nilly, without issue. The only issue that a mobile shipyard might face due to mass is turning/movement speed, which simply wouldn't matter: It [the hypothetical mobile shipyard] is already highly maneuverable on a sector-to-sector scale, and I can't imagine a reason for it to go anywhere at sublight speed, unless a faction wants to field one directly in combat.

Finally, Lithrus: At least you propose some counterbalances for this system. It'd still face the whole "can't be found at all" issue, but it isn't quite so ridiculous when the potential of it has at least been limited.

- The Bigger the fleet gets, the more expansive their mining gets, the easier they get found.
- So you seriously have issues with finding stuff? Build big antennas! not just 3 block long ones! And scan a few sectors wide in every direction!
- so a small faction has an easier time to hide? Well good!
- So adding more hide and seek to the game worries you? GOOD!
Still point stays the same it does not matter if a hidden station or a hidden ship produces the fleet that crushes you.

- Regarding the already applied nerfs i am certain those arevery effective you say they do not matter i say they are all that matters. You every setup a shipyard? saw what powerusage it has? and you are still worried? if they would go any big they would have to workwith a bunch of docked reactors increasing the weight enourmously and thrust is running into a softcap as well. to charge a jumpdrive for such a ship prett much means you'd have to decide between thrust or jumpdrive for you can not afford the mass for both ... assuming the shipyard is supposed to produce those really big and scary ships everyone is talking about and again a station hs no issues being overweight and thus does not have to move or jump...

Point still stands if you are afraid of what a mobile shipyard could produce you better be scared of what a station could produce which would not have to deal with mobility "issues".
Trust me it is about damn time peole on pvp servers do something else than just building the next big titan. about time we learn that dedicated scanners are NECESSARY for intel.
That torpedo bombers are considered the biggest threat to your titans out there...
That stealth ships really work and are not listed any longerin teleporters even though they are cloaked and jammed.
That there is some sort of dynamic some when, for the game as it is right now, is pretty damn boring even in survival, once you are setup, and i am chillin at my homebase ...

 

[Lithrus]

Capital Ships and Motherships

Apologies for shameless plug, but this has already been heavily discussed, and lead to a broken suggestion and then that one. If you are going to read it, please read the whole thing, instead of complaining after 'Class Limitations' :p

Blaza612 I know, I read your post. It just recieved some bad votes from the community because I think of all the complication and everything. I tried to make the community and developers find some common ground in this post.

And yours is the post I was referring to when I said on line 2: "To start off: Yes, I know there have been other posts about this, but many of them ask for complicated systems or massive nerfs."

 

[Nauvran]

say we get these mobile shipyards, what do we need stations for then?
sure homebase protection and to claim territory for the mining bonus but all the station you will ever need with this is a rail block and a faction module and enough credits to make the damn stations.

Stations would be useless if shipyards and factories were not locked to them. Hell even warpgates would be pretty useless since you're always slowly on the move.
so I guess you guys don't like stations.

- So you seriously have issues with finding stuff? Build big antennas! not just 3 block long ones! And scan a few sectors wide in every direction!

The range on scanners are 4 sectors neutral 8 sectors owned, 2 in enemy territory. the size just alters how quick he recharge is. You would need a extremely fast scanner array on a ridiculously fast ship to even be able to scan an entire galaxy to find this single mothership, that or cover the whole damn galaxy in stations with scanners but that wouldn't help much anyway.

 

[Drakkart]

say we get these mobile shipyards, what do we need stations for then?
sure homebase protection and to claim territory for the mining bonus but all the station you will ever need with this is a rail block and a faction module and enough credits to make the damn stations.

Stations would be useless if shipyards and factories were not locked to them. Hell even warpgates would be pretty useless since you're always slowly on the move.
so I guess you guys don't like stations.


The range on scanners are 4 sectors neutral 8 sectors owned, 2 in enemy territory. the size just alters how quick he recharge is. You would need a extremely fast scanner array on a ridiculously fast ship to even be able to scan an entire galaxy to find this single mothership, that or cover the whole damn galaxy in stations with scanners but that wouldn't help much anyway.

Just recently someone told me (what we all know already) that schine is not balancing yet. That a dedicated scanner ship should have a bigger advantage than just recharge time ... is a balancing issue.

 

[Nauvran]

Just recently someone told me (what we all know already) that schine is not balancing yet. That a dedicated scanner ship should have a bigger advantage than just recharge time ... is a balancing issue.

would have been great to mention that when you yelled at Heilos to get him to build bigger scanners, wouldn't it Drakkart?

 

[Lithrus]

say we get these mobile shipyards, what do we need stations for then?
sure homebase protection and to claim territory for the mining bonus but all the station you will ever need with this is a rail block and a faction module and enough credits to make the damn stations.

Stations would be useless if shipyards and factories were not locked to them. Hell even warpgates would be pretty useless since you're always slowly on the move.
so I guess you guys don't like stations.


The range on scanners are 4 sectors neutral 8 sectors owned, 2 in enemy territory. the size just alters how quick he recharge is. You would need a extremely fast scanner array on a ridiculously fast ship to even be able to scan an entire galaxy to find this single mothership, that or cover the whole damn galaxy in stations with scanners but that wouldn't help much anyway.

IF you actually READ the post, you'd see that we were just asking for SHIPYARDS on ships with major nerfs and taking time. You'd ALSO realize I said that factories probably WOULDN'T be on ships.

 

[Drakkart]

would have been great to mention that when you yelled at Heilos to get him to build bigger scanners, wouldn't it Drakkart?

That is right, sorry Heilos! (how to links someone?) I am often to much caught in the imagination of what the game could become...

 

[Nauvran]

IF you actually READ the post, you'd see that we were just asking for SHIPYARDS on ships with major nerfs and taking time. You'd ALSO realize I said that factories probably WOULDN'T be on ships.

I thought I read something about refining and crafting materials on ships somewhere? mhm might have read wrong.

 

[Lithrus]

I thought I read something about refining and crafting materials on ships somewhere? mhm might have read wrong.

Under mobile shipyard usage (A spoiler)
"For balancing reasons, it may be better to restrict manufacturing of parts themselves to stations, however, mobile shipyards can utilize these materials by storing them and manufacturing ships on the spot."

 

[Blaza612]

Blaza612 I know, I read your post. It just recieved some bad votes from the community because I think of all the complication and everything. I tried to make the community and developers find some common ground in this post.

Yeah, I got most of the flak when I had explained it horribly. The problem I have, is that most people said a single thing, and ran, because I like discussions, especially something that I care about (the suggestion in question :p). However, I wouldn't really call it that complicated. It does add more complexity to the creation of a ship, but that's to add more content, if you know what I mean. It'd be less interesting if making a Capital would be the exact same as making a normal ship, without some special systems and new ways to make those systems more efficient. I did propose more on having more ways to make systems efficient, but no one saw it. :p

And yours is the post I was referring to when I said on line 2: "To start off: Yes, I know there have been other posts about this, but many of them ask for complicated systems or massive nerfs."

I wouldn't really call them massive nerfs, or again, too complicated. I'd just like Capital Ships to be more flexible than just Shipyards on ships, and allow them to do anything, from sieging stations to hosting a mining fleet, or to supporting an attack fleet. With just shipyards on ships, I'm rather limited in what I can do. Hence the whole Capitals suggestion.

 

[Ithirahad]

Stations should get a ship construction time based on mass as well, TBH. I see no reason why these blocks need to act any different on ships or stations... Stations should just get some defensive buffs, and otherwise be no different from an immobile ship.