Where did all the playerbase and faction fun go?

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    I find it interesting that a supposedly new player managed to snag a picture of something I believe was posted before they joined the forums."
    Who said that you need to register to view a forum post?

    I'm pretty sure I can tell someone to fuck off when they're sticking their nose in my business that they weren't involved with, especially when they tell me I should "get over it" because it's "not a big deal that you and other's personal privacy was violated multiple times by people who clearly have no regrets."
    Based on the fact that doxxing is using information publicly available to anyone who has the internet, personal privacy is not the right word to use, once you upload information to the internet that is you voiding you right to privacy for that set of information, not to say that it is ok to Dox, i hate it, i don't support it, and i don't generally like people who engage in it.

    So technically information that is on the internet and publicly accessible is not exclusively your business

    But as i said, if you don't like what i post, ask nicely rather than swearing at me for no good reason, and that offer is still open.
     

    Lecic

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    Who said that you need to register to view a forum post?
    No one. Newbies don't tend to realize when something it clearly going to shortly be deleted, and need to actively monitor threads since they don't receive any notifications of new posts, is all.
     

    Master_Artificer

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    Yarrharrharr, I don't know what you have against Lecic, but you really seem to have a bone to pick with him.

    On post number #53, while you do have a giant disclaimer saying it is not a personal attack, the last bit could stand to be reworded.

    Also holy crap that is the longest continuous sentence I have ever read. Anyways I will space it apart that last part some without deleting content:


    1) And your doxxing statement, when i was doxxed on a 3d modeling forum i simply got over it and learned from my mistakes, changed privacy settings, requested content be taken down by contacting the website owners that kind of thing,

    2) not that i was not pissed off about it, i was very pissed, but according to your history of factions Google document, it happened a fair while ago,

    3) imho if i were in your position i would do what i just said i did to myself and get over it, i don't mean to be mean here but learn from your mistakes and get over it although if you don't want to that's fair enough,

    4) but after the incident that i had my friend refereed me to his social worker, who introduced me to that catastrophe scale, if you don't know what i am talking about it essential is a scale from 0-100 that helps you put things into perspective,

    5) for me, it could have been a lot worse, that incident scored me 7 on that scale because it could have been a lot worse.
    1) Well for starters, sorry to hear about your own doxxing experience, hopefully that didn't go too bad for you.

    2-3) Some people handle things different ways. You were doxxed on a 3d modeling site, probably stole your info and some of your projects as well. Which is completly unacceptable, I agree. It seems to be a touchly subject here because this is literally a minecraft type game in space. The uncovering of personal information that is displayed should never be a thing that gamers have to worry about for simple games such as this one. While it can be unnerving and weird to be doxxed on a modeling site, it is just as strange if not weirder to have that happen to a member playing a game about blocks in space. Maybe he is trying to prevent it from happening to other people, maybe he is looking for an apology, I honestly don't know cause I don't know lecic all that well myself. Infact, I don't know much about the factions in this game period. Also, the phrasing is kinda harsh, might want to reword it.

    4) Thats... nice advice but not really relevent. Sure it wasn't bad, but it is the breach in security, that breach in inate trust, that is damaging. Often times you can never rebuild that bridge. So while sure, the tornado only killed your dog and destroyed your house, your family is fine, your identity hasn't been stolen, and you still have your life and job. But the mental scarring will last a lifetime. Extreme example, but the scale is a bad system.

    5) 7 out of what. what does the 100 mean? what is a 1? "Well I was just mugged and stabbed, but on the bright side this was only a 20!" I don't see how a simple scale/perspective can cause you to get over it just like that.

    Hmm, sorry if the last two seem a little bit harsh, stepping away and coming back does grant the ability to reread it from another perspective. But I wanted to make a point and this is in no way a personal attack. (okay, for really, that felt maybe too snarky, but I like how it ties in with everything and it makes me feel creative. Hell, if you actually reword your post, I will feel obligated to reword mine xD)

    [hr]


    I never said you were not allowed to be angry -_-
    And swearing at me when i am trying to put things into perspective is not the way to go, if you had a problem with what i said, i would be more than happy to address your concern if you asked nicely, rather than having an angry moment when i am trying to make a point.

    But you make yourself out to be someone who wants to bring in more players, and yet your telling them to "fuck off"?
    That is very hypocritical, i try to remain a neutral 3rd party here, but your not making yourself look like the "good guy" or the "victim" you advertise to be.
    Yes, I agree with you that Lecic shouldn't of said "fuck off" to you, that was rude of him to a new player. However, your way of putting things into perspective wasn't exactly sensitive either, so currently I see tension on both sides when their should be none. Also, you kind of ramble on in the second paragraph, calling hypocritical and accuse him of not being a victim to a crime that you yourself were a victim of. Keep in mind that he as decided to stick with the community and keep playing the game where this happened, which is slightly different from your case where you said you left.

    Also, careful, you kind of crossed a line and voided that "third party unbiased claim".

    Both you and Lecic need to calm down, you should stop accusing him, and Lecic, stop with the rude remarks.

    Based on the fact that doxxing is using information publicly available to anyone who has the internet, personal privacy is not the right word to use, once you upload information to the internet that is you voiding you right to privacy for that set of information, not to say that it is ok to Dox, i hate it, i don't support it, and i don't generally like people who engage in it.

    So technically information that is on the internet and publicly accessible is not exclusively your business

    But as i said, if you don't like what i post, ask nicely rather than swearing at me for no good reason, and that offer is still open.
    OOOhhhkkkaaaayyy.... dude. Seriously. If you want to "pull out the technical term" for the act that involves exposing information to groups, be that guy.

    But, even though "once something is on the internet, it is not exclusively accessible", to pull up facebook information, or google circles, or myspace, on someone for a video game about blocks in space, is quite frankly odd. You used the word perspective a few times, I can assume that you are able to take a step back with me and examine this situation. Games like EVE, LEAGUE, or the depths of 4chan have issues of this, but the cases is a small number in communities of millions. This community is maybe a few hundred, and yet according to the mods this has happened quite a few times.

    This is not a common thing, and does not happen nor will happen to the vast majority of people, neigh, gamers out there. If this has happened to a significant number of people here (in a community of this small size, the number of significance would be around 5 when it should be 0.03) then their is a problem.

    Do you know people who engage in this questionable activity? You said you generally don't like people who do it, but then that... implies that so that do it you do like. I myself don't know of anybody personally or who I have met online who has done this. It is a major form of cyber bullying and cyber harassment, and that can land you in court. If you are preforming this inside of the united states, or against a citizen in some cases, it can be weighed in against section 7. So while the activity is technically not full on doxxing, it is neigh close enough and still illegal. Sad to say, most people don't realize this and it goes unreported 90% of the time. That's another reason why most flamming targets an individual's online identity, and not the personal identity of the target to skirt around most of the harassment rules because they are kinda loose.

    Also, go back to what you were posting before this, your first posts were quite good.


    [hr]

    Looking into that link you published, and doing a bit of diffing based off the words I saw and using the forum search, apparently user "Flying Debries" posted this: http://starmadedock.net/threads/a-formal-apology.8595/
    An official apology that a user 0Samuel0 accepted on behalf of the odium pack or something. Searching using all the key words, I could not find said video mentioned, and after PM'ing Flying Debries, he said he did remove the video from the public on his channel. I still could not find said channel to confirm however.

    But it appears that the party involved apologized publicly, they removed the video (cause I could not find it for the life of me), and is now water under the hyperbole bridge. I would consider it poor taste to try to get said maker to apologize for it yet again, or you never quite believed the apology in the first place, in which case speak up and come to an agreement.


    "xlBlackhawklx involving homosexuals and exploitation/doxxing" asking around, apparently said video, while distasteful to be said in 2015 no less as military personal do and still are dieing to protect this America where a person is not judged by there sexuality, we can skip by that first part and look at the second. Asking the maker of the video, apparently the leader, this hawk, condoned the action under "It is funny" and defended it. Dishearting to see, http://oldsite.star-made.org/content/ixi-reapers-ixi-hunter-7-days as searching around on the oldside shows that this guy seemed to be a pretty cool guy and was a man of action, while the new site just shows hate. Actually this is kinda informative, looking at the document on the faction histories showed that they used to do a lot of stuff.

    Okay, now I am rambling, I will cut myself off here.


    Also Thadius, please less reaction images. Thanks.
    [DOUBLEPOST=1447133196,1447132843][/DOUBLEPOST]Ah, meant to add, please keep posting, just don't go around targeting members with vendettas as a new player, it can produce kneejerk reactions and that doesn't help anybody.

    But please, keep doing posts like your two cents version.
    [DOUBLEPOST=1447133447][/DOUBLEPOST]
    And ladies and gentlemen here comes the funny rating spam, from Lecic Inc.
    https://gyazo.com/d892022286db0d76df3ce1975091a0a9
    Both you and Lecic need to stop picking on eachother.
    Lecic, stop.
    YarrHarrHarr, stop.
     
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    Don't worry Master, you have made some good points and have done it with a sensible attitude, as much as i want to dispute some of your points i'm not going to bother, it seems i may have taken this a bit to far.

    Sorry if i caused any hurt Lecic
     

    Master_Artificer

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    Don't worry Master, you have made some good points and have done it with a sensible attitude, as much as i want to dispute some of your points i'm not going to bother, it seems i may have taken this a bit to far.

    Sorry if i caused any hurt Lecic
    No by all means, nitpick and dispute away! Don't leave me hanging bro!
    As long as we don't go and start calling each other wankers, we can have a actual fucking discussion and resolve some things on the quite serious topic of where did the fucking fun go?

    And you seem like you are one of those members that lurks for a while before creating an account, I was like that myself, so you probably are familiarized with the forum. So, pick apart what I said. I am sure that I probably got some things wrong, but other things I can defend, I want to hear what you have to say. I'll be back tomorrow to reply to anything.


    My face when I go to read what has been going on here.
    Nooooooo you come back here too!
     
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    Mered4

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    Let me exit my lurker cloud for a bit....

    Right.

    Reasons the game is in decline:

    1. Over-moderation on the forums. This has been covered before, it's not new.
    2. Favoritism by the dev team (not necessarily everyone, just a few certain folks) for people they personally know.
    3. Implementing major features without bothering to actually bug test thoroughly, leading to some really nasty bugs on patch day and beyond. (Mild Example: http://phab.starma.de/T820). This leads to returning and new players leaving within a few hours of starting the game due to these preventable and utterly frustrating occurrences
    4. Unnecessary forum/server drama. I see a lot of people here seem to like that stuff. Sorry guys, but it hurts the community much more than it helps at this stage. At EVE's size? Sure! There's a million plus playing that game. We barely get a few hundred per week. We gotta stick together. We are a family :schema:. ALL HAIL THE CAT.
    5. Somewhat related to #4. The continued encouragement of bad behavior by certain members of this community. As an example, the former Imperium (that became Starside) from MushroomFleet are generally a part of this group. Thankfully I don't have just our experiences to draw on in this instance - I've heard rumblings of their little exploits on different servers too.

    I'd like to explain #3 in a little more detail before ending this.
    Basically, the way bug testing works in Dev Builds is essentially based on blind luck. "NEW DEV BUILD!" "What's in it?" "TRANSPORTERS!" "Anything else?" "Huh? I said TRANSPORTERS!" "I know, but did you change anything in, say, the config, that may or may not break storage logic?" "Uhhh. Maybe?"
    That was the first hotfix(0.19485) last week. Storage logic got busted every time a sector loaded/reloaded, and as such the entire shop system on MushroomFleet just stopped working. Poof. Plusnine's hours of work were nullified in a matter of minutes after the server update. The new hotfix (0.19488) fixed this issue (afaik), but that particular bug shouldn't have made it out of the tester barrier. It was easily identifiable and preventable, had the great cat god Schema (or his minion programmers) told the testers what game mechanics had been toyed with and where to test for possible issues.

    Cheers!

    --Ender
     
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    Ithirahad

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    I'd like to explain #3 in a little more detail before ending this.
    Basically, the way bug testing works in Dev Builds is essentially based on blind luck. "NEW DEV BUILD!" "What's in it?" "TRANSPORTERS!" "Anything else?" "Huh? I said TRANSPORTERS!" "I know, but did you change anything in, say, the config, that may or may not break storage logic?" "Uhhh. Maybe?"
    That was the first hotfix(0.19485) last week. Storage logic got busted every time a sector loaded/reloaded, and as such the entire shop system on MushroomFleet just stopped working. Poof. Plusnine's hours of work were nullified in a matter of minutes after the server update. The new hotfix (0.19488) fixed this issue (afaik), but that particular bug shouldn't have made it out of the tester barrier. It was easily identifiable and preventable, had the great cat god Schema (or his minion programmers) told the testers what game mechanics had been toyed with and where to test for possible issues.

    Cheers!

    --Ender
    Just because a bug happened with, say, storages, doesn't mean that they were being messed with or that Schema could even predict something like that. The way programming works, several systems might rely on one piece of code, and changing it to fix or optimize one minor thing may have unforeseen consequences throughout the entire game. StarMade is a big program with a lot of interdependent systems, and so a lot of stuff like that will happen.

    That said, I do believe we are still a bit understaffed tester-wise; the devs put out a call for new testers a while ago which - to my knowledge - wasn't responded to as much as it should've been.
     

    Mered4

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    Just because a bug happened with, say, storages, doesn't mean that they were being messed with or that Schema could even predict something like that. The way programming works, several systems might rely on one piece of code, and changing it may have unforeseen consequences throughout the entire game. StarMade is a big program with a lot of interdependent systems, and so a lot of stuff like that will happen.
    Schema and crew made some prepatory changes to storage blocks for cargo. Storages broke upon sector reload after the new patch. There is a super obvious connection there. Unfortunately, Schema didn't tell the testers that he changed that particular system, so it wasn't tested extensively. Thus, the bug.

    Bugs happen, Ith. Not all are preventable right off the bat. However the simple ones are easily preventable when the testing team knows where to look. Right now they only get a headline: 'optimizations and teleporters' is a good example. Besides teleporters and building big things to strain servers, there isn't much to test for specifically.
     

    Ithirahad

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    Ah, right; good point. I dunno, you'd have to ask Lancake or the big man himself if you can get a hold of him.
     
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    Reilly Reese

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    Schema and crew made some prepatory changes to storage blocks for cargo. Storages broke upon sector reload after the new patch. There is a super obvious connection there. Unfortunately, Schema didn't tell the testers that he changed that particular system, so it wasn't tested extensively. Thus, the bug.

    Bugs happen, Ith. Not all are preventable right off the bat. However the simple ones are easily preventable when the testing team knows where to look. Right now they only get a headline: 'optimizations and teleporters' is a good example. Beside a teleporters and building big things to strain servers, there isn't much to test for specifically.
    The issue probably arose from backround work for the cargo update. More than likely Schine didn't think it would effect anything in-game.
     

    Mered4

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    The issue probably arose from backround work for the cargo update. More than likely Schine didn't think it would effect anything in-game.
    Which is exactly why it needs to be mentioned to the testers. We testers aren't perfect, but neither is the cat god.

    I don't think a massive detailed changelog is necessary - just a "hey we revamped this or that a bit". Would be nice
     

    Keptick

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    As much as I'm pro drama, I'd actually like this thread to help shed light on the main reasons for activity drop, so please ladies, get a fucking room.
    Exactly. A person doxing an other is NONE of our concern/business. So why the fuck they're talking about it in an unrelated public thread, instead of a pm with the people involved, is beyond me.
    [DOUBLEPOST=1447189178,1447188898][/DOUBLEPOST]
    Let me exit my lurker cloud for a bit....

    Right.

    Reasons the game is in decline:

    1. Over-moderation on the forums. This has been covered before, it's not new.
    2. Favoritism by the dev team (not necessarily everyone, just a few certain folks) for people they personally know.
    3. Implementing major features without bothering to actually bug test thoroughly, leading to some really nasty bugs on patch day and beyond. (Mild Example: http://phab.starma.de/T820). This leads to returning and new players leaving within a few hours of starting the game due to these preventable and utterly frustrating occurrences
    4. Unnecessary forum/server drama. I see a lot of people here seem to like that stuff. Sorry guys, but it hurts the community much more than it helps at this stage. At EVE's size? Sure! There's a million plus playing that game. We barely get a few hundred per week. We gotta stick together. We are a family :schema:. ALL HAIL THE CAT.
    5. Somewhat related to #4. The continued encouragement of bad behavior by certain members of this community. As an example, the former Imperium (that became Starside) from MushroomFleet are generally a part of this group. Thankfully I don't have just our experiences to draw on in this instance - I've heard rumblings of their little exploits on different servers too.

    I'd like to explain #3 in a little more detail before ending this.
    Basically, the way bug testing works in Dev Builds is essentially based on blind luck. "NEW DEV BUILD!" "What's in it?" "TRANSPORTERS!" "Anything else?" "Huh? I said TRANSPORTERS!" "I know, but did you change anything in, say, the config, that may or may not break storage logic?" "Uhhh. Maybe?"
    That was the first hotfix(0.19485) last week. Storage logic got busted every time a sector loaded/reloaded, and as such the entire shop system on MushroomFleet just stopped working. Poof. Plusnine's hours of work were nullified in a matter of minutes after the server update. The new hotfix (0.19488) fixed this issue (afaik), but that particular bug shouldn't have made it out of the tester barrier. It was easily identifiable and preventable, had the great cat god Schema (or his minion programmers) told the testers what game mechanics had been toyed with and where to test for possible issues.

    Cheers!

    --Ender
    Tbh I think that all logic got screwed over. There's a bug involving the way logic loads in, and it kinda broke everything logic related. The bug is documented now so it should gef fixed (it doesn't break logic on bkueprints though, only when it loads in). I sincerely hope that plusnine had backups :(

    I'm also talking to the devs about making proper change-logs (I literally talked to them about it today) because I'm also annoyed that small yet important config changes don't get documented.
     

    Mered4

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    Exactly. A person doxing an other is NONE of our concern/business. So why the fuck they're talking about it in an unrelated public thread, instead of a pm with the people involved, is beyond me.
    [DOUBLEPOST=1447189178,1447188898][/DOUBLEPOST]
    Tbh I think that all logic got screwed over. There's a bug involving the way logic loads in, and it just broke everything logic related. Tbh I just hope that plusnine had backups :(

    I'm also talking to the devs about making proper change-logs (I literally talked to them about it today) because I'm also annoyed that small yet important config changes don't get documented.
    There's a reason most of my ships are as logically simple as possible. I don't get these bugs because my most complex logical circuit in my modern ships is a five block clock for running lights.
    And AFAIK plus and a couple other admins basically went around to everyone's shop setups and replaced,relinked, and refilled every single storage block in the system. At 4 per shop and around 50 individual shops.....well. It took a while. ;)
    And there are still some not done because they are private shops and people have yet to notice that they are broken.
     
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    People come, they see the conflict spread before them, they feel unsafe, not in a "oh i'm gonna get my butt kicked in this game" way, but a "Is someone going to go on a stalking spree to find information about me to offensively snow-blower it all over the place? and then they leave. They don't want any part of it. It's an extremely reasonable thing to not want a part of, and it really should NOT be a part of the starmade community whatsoever. Having that sort of high-IRL-problems-risk-first-impression on new players is toxic to the population growth of starmade's playerbase.

    As the amount of this increased in the past, I decided I'd leave and I did for a time. I'm only back now because there are people reigning in the insanity of new-player hazing on servers and the doxxers and I stopped attempting to play on servers even though my affiliated faction does play on servers occasionally.
     

    jorgekorke

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    I still believe that one of the reasons of the drop is the current grindy nature of the game. Some old faces that I used to hang out with quitted because of it. And technically, so did I.
     

    Mered4

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    Wanna know why I play with the shroomies?
    No Ender stahp
    Because we have wars and disagreements and all that without it becoming personal. That's the line Tom and the admins draw every time. Do what you will but don't make it personal.

    And you know what? People notice when they come on the server. We are generally in chat helping each other in some way or another, and newer players stick around because we roflstomp the trolls who try to rickroll noobs.

    Starmade is fun on MushroomFleet. We may not have the biggest fleets or the best fights, but we have the most fun.