Where did all the playerbase and faction fun go?

[Lecic]

we roflstomp the trolls who try to rickroll noobs

 

[Mered4]

 

[Lancake]

Let me exit my lurker cloud for a bit....

Right.

Reasons the game is in decline:

1. Over-moderation on the forums. This has been covered before, it's not new.
2. Favoritism by the dev team (not necessarily everyone, just a few certain folks) for people they personally know.
3. Implementing major features without bothering to actually bug test thoroughly, leading to some really nasty bugs on patch day and beyond. (Mild Example: http://phab.starma.de/T820). This leads to returning and new players leaving within a few hours of starting the game due to these preventable and utterly frustrating occurrences
4. Unnecessary forum/server drama. I see a lot of people here seem to like that stuff. Sorry guys, but it hurts the community much more than it helps at this stage. At EVE's size? Sure! There's a million plus playing that game. We barely get a few hundred per week. We gotta stick together. We are a family . ALL HAIL THE CAT.
5. Somewhat related to #4. The continued encouragement of bad behavior by certain members of this community. As an example, the former Imperium (that became Starside) from MushroomFleet are generally a part of this group. Thankfully I don't have just our experiences to draw on in this instance - I've heard rumblings of their little exploits on different servers too.

I'd like to explain #3 in a little more detail before ending this.
Basically, the way bug testing works in Dev Builds is essentially based on blind luck. "NEW DEV BUILD!" "What's in it?" "TRANSPORTERS!" "Anything else?" "Huh? I said TRANSPORTERS!" "I know, but did you change anything in, say, the config, that may or may not break storage logic?" "Uhhh. Maybe?"
That was the first hotfix(0.19485) last week. Storage logic got busted every time a sector loaded/reloaded, and as such the entire shop system on MushroomFleet just stopped working. Poof. Plusnine's hours of work were nullified in a matter of minutes after the server update. The new hotfix (0.19488) fixed this issue (afaik), but that particular bug shouldn't have made it out of the tester barrier. It was easily identifiable and preventable, had the great cat god Schema (or his minion programmers) told the testers what game mechanics had been toyed with and where to test for possible issues.

Cheers!

--Ender

Just because a bug happened with, say, storages, doesn't mean that they were being messed with or that Schema could even predict something like that. The way programming works, several systems might rely on one piece of code, and changing it to fix or optimize one minor thing may have unforeseen consequences throughout the entire game. StarMade is a big program with a lot of interdependent systems, and so a lot of stuff like that will happen.

That said, I do believe we are still a bit understaffed tester-wise; the devs put out a call for new testers a while ago which - to my knowledge - wasn't responded to as much as it should've been.

Schema and crew made some prepatory changes to storage blocks for cargo. Storages broke upon sector reload after the new patch. There is a super obvious connection there. Unfortunately, Schema didn't tell the testers that he changed that particular system, so it wasn't tested extensively. Thus, the bug.

Bugs happen, Ith. Not all are preventable right off the bat. However the simple ones are easily preventable when the testing team knows where to look. Right now they only get a headline: 'optimizations and teleporters' is a good example. Besides teleporters and building big things to strain servers, there isn't much to test for specifically.

Which is exactly why it needs to be mentioned to the testers. We testers aren't perfect, but neither is the cat god.

I don't think a massive detailed changelog is necessary - just a "hey we revamped this or that a bit". Would be nice

Both of you don't know what you're talking about. The tester team did get told that the storage system received code overhaul in preparation of the cargo system. We didn't know about pulling breaking on *existing* structures only after release. Me and another tester checked it out, but only on new contraptions so we never noticed it.
We're also not under-staffed, we just have too many inactive members. Most of the work done the last 2 releases was by me (in total 35 hours spent reporting and testing for them).

You only see the issues that sneak through though, you don't see the countless of other issues we had that got fixed but if you want to blame someone, you should blame me and leave it at that.

Side note: Mered4, you were a former trial tester. You never passed the trial so you did not even end up in the private tester groups...There's no way you would know how Schine communicates between the tester team and Schine members.

 

[Mered4]

Both of you don't know what you're talking about. The tester team did get told that the storage system received code overhaul in preparation of the cargo system. We didn't know about pulling breaking on *existing* structures only after release. Me and another tester checked it out, but only on new contraptions so we never noticed it.
We're also not under-staffed, we just have too many inactive members. Most of the work done the last 2 releases was by me (in total 35 hours spent reporting and testing for them).

You only see the issues that sneak through though, you don't see the countless of other issues we had that got fixed but if you want to blame someone, you should blame me and leave it at that.

Side note: Mered4, you were a former trial tester. You never passed the trial so you did not even end up in the private tester groups...There's no way you would know how Schine communicates between the tester team and Schine members.

Wonderful. I was never told that. Why wasn't I told that.....

Thank you for clearing that up, Lancake. Now about those rail bugs.....

 

[Blood Born Angel]

I feel like this whole thing got off topic after like.. the second page.

 

[Mered4]

The discussion evolved. It happens to basically every thread in existence.

 

[Blood Born Angel]

The discussion evolved. It happens to basically every thread in existence.

But I don't feel the direction it's going now is really beneficial to what the original purpose of the thread was. That's just how I feel though.
You guys can talk about whatever you wish in the end.

 

[Ithirahad]

We're also not under-staffed, we just have too many inactive members. Most of the work done the last 2 releases was by me (in total 35 hours spent reporting and testing for them).

Same difference; a large staff that doesn't do much is the same thing as not enough people... Very minor point though.

 

[kiwionthemoon]

Its been a long time since I have looked at this game or these forums, but I think this is an important discussion, so I shall throw in my ideas along with all the rest:
I quit this game for 2 major reasons, ill list them below:
1) There was no reason for me to login - The only incentive for me to that was the faction points, but my faction was the most powerful on the server, what was the point when we had a fortune in those points anyway? Gradually I only logged on if there was an emergency, and even then, our defences could usually handle it. The previous system (and as far as I have seen; the current one) encourages a type of gameplay that gradually pushes most players out. Let me explain; once a faction or player has passed a certain stage in economy there becomes little point in continuing the intensive farming of materials that was previously required. But once that stage is reached, nothing else happens. If players or factions engage in fighting they run a danger of losing ships, which means losing a large amount of resources. Nobody has enough resources to continue losing ships, so they just sit on their ships for fear of losing them. Should they risk their ships they might find themselves in that unpleasant grind stage again (which, lets be real; is incredibly boring).
2) Factions died - Around the time I quit, two things where happening to the big factions; factions where either disbanding/stagnating or retiring into nothingness/irrelevance on their own private servers. How many players stayed in the game for their faction community, when this died, what was left for them? This pattern outlined here was primarily because of the pattern i outlined in my previous point.

tl;dr
1) nobody fights because ships are too expensive and people cannot afford to lose more than a certain number. Rather than risking themselves and approaching that threshold they simply sit on their current ships.
2) Factions quit because they have nothing to do, taking out a major element for many players.

Note: I am simply commentating my understanding of the issue. Just remember my understanding is likely outdated and shaped by my playing style as a faction diplomate/intelligence officer/general logistics person (meaning I had little idea about mechanics but a fairly outlined idea of the faction scene).

 

[Keptick]

Its been a long time since I have looked at this game or these forums, but I think this is an important discussion, so I shall throw in my ideas along with all the rest:
I quit this game for 2 major reasons, ill list them below:
1) There was no reason for me to login - The only incentive for me to that was the faction points, but my faction was the most powerful on the server, what was the point when we had a fortune in those points anyway? Gradually I only logged on if there was an emergency, and even then, our defences could usually handle it. The previous system (and as far as I have seen; the current one) encourages a type of gameplay that gradually pushes most players out. Let me explain; once a faction or player has passed a certain stage in economy there becomes little point in continuing the intensive farming of materials that was previously required. But once that stage is reached, nothing else happens. If players or factions engage in fighting they run a danger of losing ships, which means losing a large amount of resources. Nobody has enough resources to continue losing ships, so they just sit on their ships for fear of losing them. Should they risk their ships they might find themselves in that unpleasant grind stage again (which, lets be real; is incredibly boring).
2) Factions died - Around the time I quit, two things where happening to the big factions; factions where either disbanding/stagnating or retiring into nothingness/irrelevance on their own private servers. How many players stayed in the game for their faction community, when this died, what was left for them? This pattern outlined here was primarily because of the pattern i outlined in my previous point.

tl;dr
1) nobody fights because ships are too expensive and people cannot afford to lose more than a certain number. Rather than risking themselves and approaching that threshold they simply sit on their current ships.
2) Factions quit because they have nothing to do, taking out a major element for many players.

Note: I am simply commentating my understanding of the issue. Just remember my understanding is likely outdated and shaped by my playing style as a faction diplomate/intelligence officer/general logistics person (meaning I had little idea about mechanics but a fairly outlined idea of the faction scene).

Your understanding isn't outdated at all, you just outlined exactly what is problematic right now.

 

[Unnamed25]

On the server i had been playing on (GenXnova) it was actually quite easy to get a 77k block ship, and on my second day i got a 240k block "cruiser", and that's with only me on the faction, more players = more miner guys = even easier to make large ships, more possible FUN, in fact it only took me 2-3 hours to make the cruiser by myself, and if you think that's way too much, don't forget that time flies when you are focused on wanting to get something.

All i needed is a good starter miner that is easy-ish to spawn (remember you can also scrap and sell a starter ship to get resources for it, more players = more starter ships to scrap for it) and then you make a station so you can refine ores and dock your stuff.

Planet mining not allowed? mine asteroids. Can't find blue larimar asteroids for shield capacitators? no problem, make shield rechargers from orange asteroids, (i think) sell them, and buy shield capacitators with the credits you got. Need armor blocks? make something that sells for a lot and is easy to make like shield rechargers, sell them, and use the credits to buy the armor for the ship. Need to get lots of decorations and its a pain to make them one by one? use shops. Remember that you can also buy and sell from shops, you are not limited to factories for resource making

One of the reasons i didn't try to play before that is because i thought that it was going to be hard and boring, but it's actually quite easy, all you need to do is try.

 

[Lecic]

On the server i had been playing on (GenXnova) it was actually quite easy to get a 77k block ship, and on my second day i got a 240k block "cruiser", and that's with only me on the faction, more players = more miner guys = even easier to make large ships, more possible FUN, in fact it only took me 2-3 hours to make the cruiser by myself, and if you think that's way too much, don't forget that time flies when you are focused on wanting to get something.

All i needed is a good starter miner that is easy-ish to spawn (remember you can also scrap and sell a starter ship to get resources for it, more players = more starter ships to scrap for it) and then you make a station so you can refine ores and dock your stuff.

Planet mining not allowed? mine asteroids. Can't find blue larimar asteroids for shield capacitators? no problem, make shield rechargers from orange asteroids, (i think) sell them, and buy shield capacitators with the credits you got. Need armor blocks? make something that sells for a lot and is easy to make like shield rechargers, sell them, and use the credits to buy the armor for the ship. Need to get lots of decorations and its a pain to make them one by one? use shops. Remember that you can also buy and sell from shops, you are not limited to factories for resource making

One of the reasons i didn't try to play before that is because i thought that it was going to be hard and boring, but it's actually quite easy, all you need to do is try.

Doesn't GenXNova have massive mining multipliers, 25mil free credits a day, and a constant credit flow for being online?

 

[Unnamed25]

Doesn't GenXNova have massive mining multipliers, 25mil free credits a day, and a constant credit flow for being online?

i didn't use the bonus credits, and if you have many guys mining with a smaller bonus, it's around the same or better than 1 guy on a server with a higher bonus

edit: interesting, SS has a "flimsy" 500% bonus, didn't know that, maybe they should try to boost the bonus a little and balance it out, hardcore server or not, how much of a bonus does it have for a system claimed by your faction? GenX has 36x, does SS have 18x? if so, thats a large difference, but im sure major factions have more than 2 players willing to spend some time mining some asteroids

 

[AtraUnam]

too many inactive members.

Too many inactive members eh...

Back on topic I completely agree with kiwionthemoon, past a certain threshold there's pretty much 0 gameplay to be had. Its been said time and time again that we need something that's worth fighting over.

 

[Master_Artificer]

Hmm, I don't think Aceface will respond to me. Err, I mean YarrHarrHarr... who is Aceface.
Ah well! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Winterhome]

On the server i had been playing on (GenXnova) it was actually quite easy to get a 77k block ship, and on my second day i got a 240k block "cruiser", and that's with only me on the faction, more players = more miner guys = even easier to make large ships, more possible FUN, in fact it only took me 2-3 hours to make the cruiser by myself, and if you think that's way too much, don't forget that time flies when you are focused on wanting to get something.

I personally can make a ship that large in a couple days by planet mining, and failing that, mass asteroid mining. Most people tend to use ships that are 5-10 times that size for general usage, though.

As for the "just buy shield capacitors" thing, that only really works when you have reliable, restocking shops for what you're selling. Shops don't restock often by Trading Guild means, and when they do restock, they don't restock a whole lot of materials. It's an issue of sustainability - you can easily pull a 1mil block ship out of a group of maybe four or so systems' supplies of shops, but after that, you're pretty much out of materials and have to expand elsewhere.

 

[Thomas Jetson]

I always get a lot of criticism for this bit I think the declining playerbase and faction problems (including 1 player factions who isolate themselves) can be on the most part solved without adding code to StarMade. Server settings and good faction leadership is the answer. That often seems too simple to people who want to force the solution with more coding and gameplay rules.

Why not look for simple solutions? They are often the correct ones.

 

[TwoNiner]

I always get a lot of criticism for this bit I think the declining playerbase and faction problems (including 1 player factions who isolate themselves) can be on the most part solved without adding code to StarMade. Server settings and good faction leadership is the answer. That often seems too simple to people who want to force the solution with more coding and gameplay rules.

Why not look for simple solutions? They are often the correct ones.

The game had good leaders, most of which have left for various reasons listed in this thread

 

[Ithirahad]

I always get a lot of criticism for this bit I think the declining playerbase and faction problems (including 1 player factions who isolate themselves) can be on the most part solved without adding code to StarMade. Server settings and good faction leadership is the answer. That often seems too simple to people who want to force the solution with more coding and gameplay rules.

Why not look for simple solutions? They are often the correct ones.

Lol no

Good leadership or no, the only factions that really stay alive seem to be the engineering factions, as there's basically nothing else to do. Even my faction quickly devolved into an engineering faction, for the most part.

 

[jorgekorke]

On the server i had been playing on (GenXnova) it was actually quite easy to get a 77k block ship, and on my second day i got a 240k block "cruiser", and that's with only me on the faction, more players = more miner guys = even easier to make large ships, more possible FUN, in fact it only took me 2-3 hours to make the cruiser by myself, and if you think that's way too much, don't forget that time flies when you are focused on wanting to get something.

Wait, bro; Didn’t GenX had a 50k ship block limit? I'm pretty sure it had... Did they drop it?