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    What have you done... (power system wtf)

    Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Captain Fortius, Sep 15, 2017.

    1. Cluwne

      Joined:
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      I try to keep an open-ish mind. That also lets me have fun by being angry at both sides.
      I am no expert on the soon-to-be-old power system by any stretch of imagination, though I am not a completely hopeless helpless moron either.
      I do like the complexity current system allows, but I would be lying if I said that I didn't dream of more clown-friendly system at times.
      I also recognize the fact that current system's depth is more about optimization than anything else.
      Wish they'd drop the dev build already. All this anticipation and uncertainty is killing me. Now more than ever because of how close it is to finally happening.

      And I'm sure as hell excited to see the universal effect system being implemented, especially in context of future universe update.
      Give us a truckload of effects and we'll make near damn every system unique long before Schine even makes a design document for that update.
      From racing, including hovercraft racing (Wipeout/Ballistics anyone?) with rules enforced via effects, to "(de)buffing" support ships and complex creative warfare.

      As for the 'roids, I happen to like the idea of rogue miners messing with your belts.
      If you really don't want them hanging around - kick 'em out and fortify the system.
      Maybe use some nasty effects to get them to leave and, hopefully, never come back.
      It just seem a bit too unrealistic even for Starmade to protect each and every asteroid.
      Some sort of specific weapon-disabling effect would work though.
       
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    2. Arcaner

      Joined:
      Oct 8, 2014
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      I've been playing Robocraft since Hoverblades were new. Tho I agree the new crate reward system is horrible, this is not the place to talk about that :P

      More to the topic, the -to be-power system SEEMS to have killed the fine tuned perfection we used to try so hard to achieve and also SEEMS to prefer specific types of (long, thin) builds over others. I think we should actually PLAY the dev build (when it comes out, if it comes out :P ) before pointing fingers.

      One thing I know: Starmade won't remain the game I fell in love with years ago, but I hope it changes for the better...

      This power update will either make or break the game. Lets keep our fingers crossed
       
    3. Drakkart

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      I think a lot of negativity towards the chamber system comes from them not giving out numbers, details, stuff we could fill our excel files with.
      Maybe it is just a complexity shift as Top 4ce suggests but maybe they will botch that again as well, i mean being in doubt. we got our reasons to assume schine went the easy route, because they did it as so often again... So a healthy skepticism about something you love... pretty much that is was those posts express. The easy getting into the game will definitly serve the playerbase well.
       
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    4. Arcaner

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      Agreed. Late's wait n watch....or play ;)
       
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    5. GnomeKing

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      Feb 21, 2015
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      this may be true - but what makes new players give up (on servers) is more than learning (or not) to power-thread effectively > power becomes an issue when: eg a) new players try for over-ambitious/oversized builds, b)they get pointlessly harassed by by other players on the server with more powerful ships, and don't get time to develop their builds (ie frenetic arms race).

      other measures could also have a massive/more impact on enjoyment, especially for new-ish factions and players >>> such as altering how shields function (eg don't block 100% damage for 'large' ships), or creating faction point penalties for destroying much weaker opponents (ie your aggression how has a cost, and you most maintain faction points to sustain aggressive campaigns).
       
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    6. Arcaner

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      Excellent suggestions.
      Why dont you start a thread in "Suggestions" ;) ?
       
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    7. Cluwne

      Joined:
      Aug 3, 2016
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      Please stop fucking with our large ships.
      Signed: silent majority that actually enjoys or at least tolerates PvP.

      And who decides what's "large" and what isn't? Some idiots think that a ship twice the size of Isanth is already "large".
      And please stop fucking with our factions. You can take this tumblr-tier social justice crap out of here while you're at it.
      War is never fair, nor pretty. Ask the germans, or jews, or vietnamese, or the syrian refugees for the most up-to-date information.
      There are guerrilla tactics, sabotage, destruction of "civilian" ships and all sorts of nasty shit to cripple your enemy and win with minimal losses.
      Logistics alone is enough to balance the drawn-out campaigns. That's what holds us back in real life. Logistics and mutual assured destruction.

      It's oddly poetic seeing such honorobu warriors and fair-fighting prudes get shit completely kicked out of them to the point when they're reduced to few ships docked to a homebase.
      Anticipating your comeback, yes I've been on the receiving end, quite a lot actually. Angering as it is, I see it as an incentive to git gud. Whether at shipbuilding, logistics, combat tactics or the overall strategy.
       
      #27 Cluwne, Sep 17, 2017
      Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2017
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    8. JinM

      Joined:
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      "Maybe it is just a complexity shift as Top 4ce suggests" - Thank you. Good thinking. That's exactly what can happen.

      The chambers are just one part of the equation, the other is that the weapon modules all will now store their power like the old capacitors did. And then you also can and will need to prioritise your power to what ever system you want to use mainly on your ship. You can now literally redirect power from the shields to your weapon systems.

      I totally see why people complain, but often the complaining ones never even try to talk just a little bit open about what's possible with the new system. As soon as one possibility of the new system gets mentioned some dude comes around and shuts it down with "but in the old system..." or with "totally wrong", and with "you have no clue".
       
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    9. Cluwne

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      The priority system truly is a godsend. No longer inattentiveness while firing weapons would would cost you maneuverability or shield regen.

      Another interesting thing I noticed in the Old vs New struggle is that it reminds me of a struggle between War/Starcraft and Total Annihilation in a sense that in the first resource costs are deducted immediately, while in the latter they are "fed" to whatever's building over time, possibly speeding up the process with increased throughput.
      Just like we're going to charge weapons after firing, rather than the power banks they'll take it from. I hope we'll get to use the surplus energy instead of just wasting it. Would be neat to have, even if only as a chamber effect, a mechanic that uses that surplus energy to speed up reloading.
      Downside? You'll need an XBOXHUEG reactor (Can it go boom if hit?) to have enough surplus for your planetbuster, and that "reload chamber" would take some of the limited capacity.
       
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    10. Drakkart

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      Yeah there are afew things i like about the new system that surely is an outstanding one...

      Yeah eventually it is going to shift the thing but since we do not know. just taking the power system chambers aside for they are not the power system they are replacing passive effects on ships... so just looking at the power system you need to admit it is very simple and as such does not provide any real challenge.
      That is what causes the riot here for the old one even though it had it's issues it was in itself a cool thing to tinker with, deep and challenging. but ofc schine is not going to change the route anymore so ofc we all need to see where it leads and then decisde if we still likethe game or we better wait for a later version or ... we will see what just really stung me is the waittime for kind of the exact same thing as it was announced so why would they not just tell we are going with it because people could stop playing for the system was not popular enough? guess what they did anyway.
       
    11. El_Poulpy

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      Jun 26, 2013
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      For me the system wasn't complex : just squeeze the more "virtual cube" you could on a ship. It was just a pain to build so most people didn't bother and just put power lines. Maybe i missed something, could you elaborate on what made it complex ?

      The "complexity" of the new system seems to lie in the different chambers effect and possibly their association but we won't be able to judge before we can test it
       
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    12. Coyote27

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      Because after a certain (quite low) threshold, they're more efficient than adding more shield and armor blocks. While they're not really absolutely required for a combat ship, they're also a no-brainer choice that doesn't come with much in the way of trade-offs or design choices, and don't really do anything drastically different that a buff to shield and armor blocks wouldn't do.
      The chamber system does seem to encourage choosing fewer things to specialize in for greater effects, though you could probably still manage to be more of an all-rounder with one reactor and chamber setup and just use more weaker chambers instead of fewer powerful upgraded ones. I'm just not really seeing the issue here without any sort of evidence suggesting that it'll make anything worse simply by being more flexible for specialization.
      Neither do I see any horrible drawback to using two reactors with different chamber setups, for example a stealth/cloak system and then a combat system to swap to when needed, because those are things that you won't be able to use at the same time anyway.
       
    13. Cluwne

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      Aren't the stealth effects cover the same-ish niche as the defensive ones? It's another way to protect yourself, by avoiding getting shot at completely.
      Hell, one could even consider offensive weapon-oriented effects as defensive, when used in "glass cannon" builds that blow up the enemy before he can retaliate.
      War is such a source inspiration!
       
    14. Indigo Slimez

      Indigo Slimez Almighty Glorious Overlord

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      The slient majority don't actually play the game.
       
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    15. Dellexe

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      Aug 10, 2015
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      I'm just poking my head back into the game, but I have to completely agree with this man. Different servers, different builders, all have different ideas of what is or isn't "large." One man's light cruiser is another man's battleship. Personally, I enjoy this, as it creates opportunity for diverse playstyles and ship size is already limited by resources.I think that large-ship balancing should be tweaked around that, the rarity of resources, rather than arbitrary changes in block efficiency.

      Going with big ships already has inherent logistical weaknesses. They may be overwhelmingly powerful in the engagements they're in, they lack the ability to cover an area as well as several smaller ships are able to. They cost more resources, are more of an investment, and more costly to lose. They also require larger shipyards and larger mining fleets to support, which can't be as easily defended because they don't have the numbers or coverage.

      If you want to beat someone with large ships, throwing your ships at their clearly superior ships isn't going to work. Go for their miners, distract their large ships, try to bait them out of position, fight dirty. Give up territory in the short term to win in the long term. This is how warfare in the real world works, and I believe it would make for a very interesting gameplay experience rather than just setting arbitrary limits on block count or mass.
       
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    16. Zoolimar

      Joined:
      Aug 14, 2017
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      I have newbie question.

      In video devs talk about how one of the problems is the fact that ships have too many blocks. But won't smaller reactors just encourage people to fill freed up space with other blocks? Say with shield capacitors.
       
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    17. dwwojcik

      Joined:
      Jun 22, 2013
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      They might, it depends on the balance. They also might build more interior rooms, which the devs want to encourage, since future updates will require that you crew your ships with NPCs.
       
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    18. Nickizzy

      Joined:
      Nov 30, 2015
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      But shield caps take no power at all, they only increase your max shield. What's stoping me from filling the officer's mess with ionic stablizers and making my ship twice as tanky.
       
    19. dwwojcik

      Joined:
      Jun 22, 2013
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      I'm sure Schine will have thought of that. Like, not making a room count as a room if it's filled with blocks.
       
    20. Cluwne

      Joined:
      Aug 3, 2016
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      What's stopping you from filling the space old stuff used to take with shield caps? Nothing.
      On the other hand you could shift stuff around and reduce the size of the ship, making it harder to hit.
      And I wouldn't worry about the NPC or universe update - we're gonna be waiting for them longer than that power update.
       
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