Unify Scanning and Stealth systems

[33Cav]

I have read many threads about changing radar and cloak to be "better". Some suggest merging the two, while others suggest providing bonuses on stealth activation/deactivation in certain scenarios. Neither of these options address scanners. In order to find a good solution all three must be looked at together.

Changes to existing systems should be three things:
Accessible to all players (simple to understand)
Have counterplay
Be fun
And this proposal has all of these.

Radar Jammer and Cloak Changes
Make jammer and cloak similar to effect modules used defensively. Basically give them controller and controlled blocks. Make the power consumption relative to the amount of blocks controlled, with only one of each computer allowed on a ship. Overall power consumption for these two systems should be substantially lower than the current cost and should be comparable to something like half the ion defensive cost. Cloak should still be more costly than radar jammer, with a slightly lower block ratio required for 100% effectiveness.
Each ship should have a default "signiature radius" based on the amount of blocks on the ship and jammer and cloak provide a percentage reduction to this based on block ratio (seperate visual and radar signiature radius values).
Scanners will not "turn off" radar jammers and cloaks when activated as is currently the case.
EDIT: Stealth systems will also not "turn off" when weapons are fired under the proposed system but it possible that some kind of signiature "bloom" will occur when weapons are fired.

Scanner Passive Mode
Each ship would have a default "sensor resolution" based on the amount of blocks on the ship and scanners provide a percentage reduction to this value based on block ratio.
In passive mode the scanner will detect (probably for the ship with the scanner's entire faction, but at least for the ship with the scanner only) any ships with a signiature radius larger than its sensor resolution. What this actually means is that if radar signiature radius is smaller (or equal) than the sensor resolution then the ship will still be invisible to radar and if the visual signiature radius is smaller (or equal) than the sensor resolution then the ship will still be invisible to visual detection.
Any ship (ship 1) close enough to another ship (ship 2), within ship 2's signiature radius + 50m is revealed regardless of how stealthy ship 1 is.

Scanner Active Mode
In active mode a small bonus is applied to the sensor resolution of the ship the scanner is on. But here is the real bonus of the active mode:
In active mode a scanner shares all detected ships to EVERY ship in navigation range of it. This comes at a cost of revealing the ship that is in active mode to every ship in navigation range of it and telling everyone in the scanner's range (in sectors, similar to current scan range for detecting ships) that there is an ship using their scanner in active mode. This last point is the counterplay to active mode providing the current scanner "ping" effect, revealing the system and telling you where the ships are in your scanner range.
An active scan should last 15 seconds and have a 10 second cooldown (resetting both when used before both have expired).

Block Ratios
Defensive effect systems have hard caps on their effectiveness as defined by the block ratios. Other systems operate on an "over block ratio - decreased time" mechanic like jump drives and scanners do now. For radar jammer, cloak and scanner in this proposed solution blocks added above and beyond the "100%" block ratio increase the effectiveness of the system, with a hard cap at twice the block ratio.
A hard lower bounds for both signiature radius and sensor resolution should be set at 10 metres.

Worked Examples
Equations I will be using (log is base 10):
Base ship signiature radius = Ceiling(sqrt(block count)/log(block count))
Base ship sensor resolution = Floor(sqrt(block count)/1.5*log(block count))
Radar signiature radius = Ceiling(Base ship signiature radius/1 + 0.6*(block ratio/0.04))
Cloak signiature radius = Ceiling(Base ship signiature radius/1 + 0.6*(block ratio/0.03))
Scanner sensor resolution (passive) = Floor(Base ship sensor resolution/1 + 0.6*(block ratio/0.05))
Scanner sensor resolution (active) = Floor(Base ship sensor resolution/1 + 1.0*(block ratio/0.05))

Example 1 Small (corvette) dedicated stealth ship used for recon VS small (frigate) dedicated scan ship
Ship 1 (stealth ship)
Block count = 20,000
Radar jammer ratio = 0.04
Cloak ratio = 0.03
Base signiature radius = 33
Radar signiature radius = 21
Cloak signiature radius = 21

Ship 2 (scan ship)
Block count = 100,000
Scanner ratio = 0.05
Base sensor resolution = 42
Scanner(passive) sensor resolution = 26
Scanner(active) sensor resolution = 21

As you can see the slightly larger frigate sized scanning ship needs to use active scan mode to detect a small corvette sized dedicated stealth ship. But once using that mode the smaller ship is completely visible to radar and visual detection.

Example 2 Medium (cruiser) stealth ship VS large (battleship) scan ship
Ship 1 (stealth ship)
Block count = 400,000
Radar jammer ratio = 0.04
Cloak ratio = 0.03
Base signiature radius = 113
Radar signiature radius = 71
Cloak signiature radius = 71

Ship 2 (scan ship)
Block count = 2,000,000
Scanner ratio = 0.05
Base sensor resolution = 149
Scanner(passive) sensor resolution = 93
Scanner(active) sensor resolution = 74

As you can see the much large battleship with a 100% ration scanner system cannot detect the stealth cruiser even with an active scan. Let's see how a much larger scanner system improves the result:

Scanner ratio = 0.10
Base sensor resolution = 149
Scanner(passive) sensor resolution = 67
Scanner(active) sensor resolution = 49

Now you can see that the battleship can detect the stealth cruiser with it's scanner in passive mode. This comes at the cost of a much larger and more expensive scanner system. A smaller ship would have an easier time detecting the stealth cruiser.

Example 3 Huge (dreadnaught) stealth ship (200% ratio) VS huge (dreadnaught) scan ship (100% ratio)
Ship 1 (stealth ship)
Block count = 6,000,000
Radar jammer ratio = 0.08
Cloak ratio = 0.06
Base signiature radius = 362
Radar signiature radius = 165
Cloak signiature radius = 165

Ship 2 (scan ship)
Block count = 6,000,000
Scanner ratio = 0.05
Base sensor resolution = 240
Scanner(passive) sensor resolution = 150
Scanner(active) sensor resolution = 120

Even with a 200% block ratio invested in stealth systems a huge ship like a dreadnaught is much too large to hide from a similarly sized ship with 100% scanner block ratio.

Example 4 Huge (dreadnaught) stealth ship (different ratios) VS huge (dreadnaught) scan ship (60% ratio)
Ship 1 (stealth ship)
Block count = 6,000,000
Radar jammer ratio = 0.08
Cloak ratio = 0.03
Base signiature radius = 362
Radar signiature radius = 165
Cloak signiature radius = 227

Ship 2 (scan ship)
Block count = 6,000,000
Scanner ratio = 0.03
Base sensor resolution = 240
Scanner(passive) sensor resolution = 176
Scanner(active) sensor resolution = 150

This example shows that in passive scan mode the stealth ship is able to be detected visually but cannot be detected by radar. In active scan mode the stealth ship is entirely visible.

Feel free to work up your own examples to find areas the formulae need to be tweaked.

 

[alterintel]

Thread Cleaned... lets' try to keep it civil

 

[33Cav]

RabidBat Posted that he would like to see unmanned ships be able to be scanned? If you meant detectable by scanners using the proposed system, unmanned ships would not be exempt. If you meant be able to use the active/passive scan as chosen by the builder of the ship then ideally the bobby ai module would have a setting for it. But with the broadcast part of the active mode passive would likely be preferred. Did you mean either of those?

kurosawa Posted that the proposed system is not really needed. Could you elaborate? Do you think the current system works fine the way it is? Do you think this proposal is more complex than is required?

 

[kurosawa]

i did ? are you sure ?

 

[33Cav]

At least I think it was you? Or at least someone with a very similar name. It won't be in your history though.

 

[RabidBat]

RabidBat Posted that he would like to see unmanned ships be able to be scanned? If you meant detectable by scanners using the proposed system, unmanned ships would not be exempt. If you meant be able to use the active/passive scan as chosen by the builder of the ship then ideally the bobby ai module would have a setting for it. But with the broadcast part of the active mode passive would likely be preferred. Did you mean either of those?

Either or Cav, as long as unmanned and AI ships are able to be detected.

 

[Hugoba]

I like the original threat and I will put my suggestions here rather than create whole new.

First of all I think we should make some clearance:
Active radar scan - when I use quite hughe energy for searching for other ships and objects.

Passive radar scan - when radar is turned off and I can see the objects in more close range or an objects which are using active scanning.

Ship energy signature - pretty obvious, the more energy regen. the bigger signature and bigger distance to see radar mark of the ship in active or passive radar scnning.

Ship system signature - due to balancing the game, weapons should add big chunk of ship's signature. So the well armed vessels couldn't be hided as well as unarmed recon ships.

There is a possibility to add batteries and in new power system also turning off main reactor and using smaller on in "silence" mode. So when I would like to be stealthy I can totally turn off energy and run systems (thrusters, shields, etc.) only on batteries.

If neccessary I can turn on radar jammer to lower my ship signature even with turned on reactor and some minor weapon systems in my ship.

Passive scanning mode shouldn't be detectable, but if any ship will use active scanning there should be warning with informations if my ship is detected or not, the direction of active scanning and information about signal force (if i can close more without being detected or not). The active scanning resource could be "marked" in our HUD display and potencially locked on with guns. For example recon ship will know if it is safe to move closer or not to scanning ship.

Bigger antene, better antene. Smaller fighters are more stealthy, but larger ships could run bigger scanners to counter this.

Planets should work as a great radar jammers. The smaller ship hided on planet surface (or at least in atmosphere) should be visible only in very close range even with active scanning. And vice versa, entities in atmosphere don't see very well outside.

This suggestions will lead to:
- making specialized ships with small reactor, without weapons and some bateries to be extra sneaky. Because they are without radar signature when running on batteries and very low signature when running their small reactor.
- Some military armed vessels could use minor weapon systems and still retain high level of stealth, but they are overgunned by non stealthy counterparts (like Bird-of-prey was overgunned by Enterprise).
- Scanning is like playing Catch-me-if-U-can in dark room and light source. If U want to see me U need to use light and be seen as well. The stations and well armed ships should run your scans, the smaller vessels like fighters and corvettes should use only passive scanning and visual to avoid being locked and shoted down by larger counterparts, but still well informed about scanning source and range of larger ships.
- Smaller ships and objects could hide very well in planets
- Smaller ships could hardly see other smaller ships, especiallity when only in passive scanning mode.
- Larger ships could see quite well other larger ships (bigger ship signature, bigger antenas)

Little bit about cloacking
I think the range AI uses when visualy firing on other ship should be determined by sum of dimmensions rather than AI weapon range. Bigger ship is more visible. So sum of X, Y, Z should be named as a visual ship signature and counted. This siganture should be also crucial in cloacking device consumption while used, bigger ship - more energy to hide. Once tracked by radar (passive or active) ship should be decloacked as well.
[doublepost=1509982649,1509982118][/doublepost]- ...and of course, reactor could be turned off or switched to smaller one(for running trusters and possible radar jammer). The weapon systems not! So keep in mind when putting guns on your Klingon ship