Transporters: no transport on same entity

[Mered4]

Bruh... did you even read the Development Direction post...



"Unwatch Thread" button, right at the top.

You assume that:
People always build interiors in their ships (most don't).
Those interiors are continuous (not always true, even without transporters).
The devs actually implement a proper boarding system that's functional and not game breaking (unlikely).

Starmade is about freedom of design and freedom of choice in gameplay and combat. Anyone trying to force it to one specific set of gameplay is going about this all wrong. Boarding isn't natural, it is forced. Until it is, few will use it.

Also, can we please fix ACTUAL combat first?? That is one of the most laggy and broken mechanics since the weapons update. Lets fix what we have before throwing in a new feature that's supposed to build off it.

 

[Lecic]

People always build interiors in their ships (most don't).

You're going to need an interior if you want crew. That's not just me guessing. Bench outright said it.

Those interiors are continuous (not always true, even without transporters).

Even if it isn't continuous, it'll still have computers to break and crew to kill off before you beam back with a beacon to try again, or start cutting your way to the next room with a chainsaw torch.

The devs actually implement a proper boarding system that's functional and not game breaking (unlikely).

To paraphrase Bench- "We're adding a proper boarding system that's functional and hopefully not game breaking at first." Will boarding require some balance at first? Sure. Everything that gets added has needed balance or fixes later down the line.

lso, can we please fix ACTUAL combat first?? That is one of the most laggy and broken mechanics since the weapons update.

Is this a joke? Combat is one of the few parts of the game that functions reliably most of the time. What about current combat is broken? And don't say "X weapon is worthless compared to Y weapon." Everyone already knows that. BESIDES the obvious balancing issues that make maybe a quarter of weapon types the only truly viable ones.

 

[Mered4]

You're going to need an interior if you want crew. That's not just me guessing. Bench outright said it.



Even if it isn't continuous, it'll still have computers to break and crew to kill off before you beam back with a beacon to try again, or start cutting your way to the next room with a chainsaw torch.



To paraphrase Bench- "We're adding a proper boarding system that's functional and hopefully not game breaking at first." Will boarding require some balance at first? Sure. Everything that gets added has needed balance or fixes later down the line.



Is this a joke? Combat is one of the few parts of the game that functions reliably most of the time. What about current combat is broken? And don't say "X weapon is worthless compared to Y weapon." Everyone already knows that. BESIDES the obvious balancing issues that make maybe a quarter of weapon types the only truly viable ones.

I'll just quote my now deleted (thanks, testers!) bug report:

|| Usually this isn't much of an issue in SinglePlayer, but it does occur there on occasion when the number and size of AI ships reaches a high enough number.

In multiplayer on most any server (even locally hosted with 2-3 players), PvP combat and/or combat with multiple AIs leaves ships spazzing out like a person having a seizure. Sometimes cannon and beam fire phase through targeted vessels without actually hitting them.

Missiles also have this issue, where the server and client can't agree on where the thing is. It makes it incredibly difficult to reliably dodge missile fire in a small vessel and skews balance considerations towards missiles.

Large ships probably suffer from this problem the most - I've watched vessels rubberband thousands of meters. It crushes almost any desire to participate in PvP and seriously limits the scale of the game.

I've tested this on my own local server with 3-4 players (12GB allotted over 5-6 sectors max), as well as the MFleet server, which runs 20+GB over a galaxy of 10-30 players at any given time. It is consistent and reproducible in almost any version since I've joined Starmade.||

It's also gotten worse since the weapons update over a year ago.
Lecic, I can't trust any thing that Bench says at face value. He constantly over hypes new features and has literally nothing to do with the actual coding of the game (yay cat god).

Boarding isn't just another weapon. It's a completely different combat system. Balancing it requires experience in game balance- which none of these devs have. They are in over their heads.

Final point:
I don't want a crew. I don't NEED a crew. Building and piloting a ship is hard and arduous enough by myself. How is a crew going to make that process (from building -> piloting) any easier? What about new players? Most people don't fly ships larger than 200m/light destroyer size/30k oldmass anyway. Why the hell do they want a crew?

 

[Keptick]

I'll just quote my now deleted (thanks, testers!) bug report:

|| Usually this isn't much of an issue in SinglePlayer, but it does occur there on occasion when the number and size of AI ships reaches a high enough number.

In multiplayer on most any server (even locally hosted with 2-3 players), PvP combat and/or combat with multiple AIs leaves ships spazzing out like a person having a seizure. Sometimes cannon and beam fire phase through targeted vessels without actually hitting them.

Missiles also have this issue, where the server and client can't agree on where the thing is. It makes it incredibly difficult to reliably dodge missile fire in a small vessel and skews balance considerations towards missiles.

Large ships probably suffer from this problem the most - I've watched vessels rubberband thousands of meters. It crushes almost any desire to participate in PvP and seriously limits the scale of the game.

I've tested this on my own local server with 3-4 players (12GB allotted over 5-6 sectors max), as well as the MFleet server, which runs 20+GB over a galaxy of 10-30 players at any given time. It is consistent and reproducible in almost any version since I've joined Starmade.||

It's also gotten worse since the weapons update over a year ago.
Lecic, I can't trust any thing that Bench says at face value. He constantly over hypes new features and has literally nothing to do with the actual coding of the game (yay cat god).

Boarding isn't just another weapon. It's a completely different combat system. Balancing it requires experience in game balance- which none of these devs have. They are in over their heads.

Final point:
I don't want a crew. I don't NEED a crew. Building and piloting a ship is hard and arduous enough by myself. How is a crew going to make that process (from building -> piloting) any easier? What about new players? Most people don't fly ships larger than 200m/light destroyer size/30k oldmass anyway. Why the hell do they want a crew?

While it's true that the two last builds introduced some lag issues, those are going to get fixed. Combat is a LOT more stable than it was 1-2 years ago, which was plagued by rubber-banding all over the place, weapons not doing damage, spontaneous teleportation, sector strafing, random crashes and disconnects happening ALL the time, etc...

Also, while Bench doesn't code he's in partly in charge of planning features, so his word is just as good as Schema's.

You won't need a crew, it'll just provide certain bonuses. So new players will still be able to play the game.

 

[Mered4]

While it's true that the two last builds introduced some lag issues, those are going to get fixed. I don't think that it needs to be said that combat is SOOOOOOOO much more stable than it was 1-2 years ago (rubber-banding all over the place, weapons not doing damage, teleportation, sector strafing, etc...)

Also, while Bench doesn't code he's in partly in charge of planning features, so his word is just as good as Schema's.

You won't need a crew, it'll just provide certain bonuses. So new players will still be able to play the game.

All of which was stated in some way or another in Bench's dev blog thingy. Also, hello. I see you are new to how project development works.

 

[Keptick]

Oh and fyi Mered4 , bug reports don't get deleted unless the bugs in question are already reported. Otherwise they're just made private.

 

[Lecic]

Missiles also have this issue, where the server and client can't agree on where the thing is. It makes it incredibly difficult to reliably dodge missile fire in a small vessel and skews balance considerations towards missiles.

This issue only occurs with lock-on/heatseeker missiles (never seen it happen with normal missiles), which are basically impossible to dodge anyway.

Lecic, I can't trust any thing that Bench says at face value. He constantly over hypes new features and has literally nothing to do with the actual coding of the game (yay cat god).

Name an example of something Bench "overhyped" and we didn't get results.

I've watched vessels rubberband thousands of meters.

So have I. It's extremely annoying. It also isn't a direct issue with combat. It's an issue with movement between sectors, which, while it does need fixing, is NOT a combat balancing issue.

Sometimes cannon and beam fire phase through targeted vessels without actually hitting them.

The issue with beams phasing through targets at longer ranges was fixed. I've tested it in multiplayer combat with keptick. I have never seen cannon fire phase through ships- can someone else confirm this issue?

Final point:
I don't want a crew. I don't NEED a crew. Building and piloting a ship is hard and arduous enough by myself. How is a crew going to make that process (from building -> piloting) any easier? What about new players? Most people don't fly ships larger than 200m/light destroyer size/30k oldmass anyway. Why the hell do they want a crew?

You won't need a crew. In fact, it'll make you immune to teleporter boarders. But you're going to suffer from performance loss. And what do you mean, by yourself? Do you think crew is players? It's AI crew. You'll still be "by yourself."

200m isn't exactly a small ship, either. I'd expect a massive crew for a vessel of that size IRL. You'd think you'd need at least a few "people" to help you run something that size.

 

[Keptick]

All of which was stated in some way or another in Bench's dev blog thingy. Also, hello. I see you are new to how project development works.

Hello, I see that you're more familiar than me with the way Schine works. I mean, I'm just some random council dude that doesn't talk with the devs on a regular basis.

 

[Lecic]

All of which was stated in some way or another in Bench's dev blog thingy. Also, hello. I see you are new to how project development works.

2 things...

You do realize Bench and Schema almost definitely discuss the viability of the systems he plans out before he publicly posts them on the forums, right?
You do realize Keptick is a councillor who is frequently in contact with the developers and definitely knows more about how the game is developed, right?

 

[Mered4]

I'm done here. Once again SMD lives up to its expectation. I'm gone. You guys can't see any viuewpoint but your own. Sorry.

Back to the fun of the Fleet.

 

[Keptick]

I'm done here. Once again SMD lives up to its expectation. I'm gone. You guys can't see any viuewpoint but your own. Sorry.

Back to the fun of the Fleet.

Well, you're just showing a failing grasp on the way the game works or even what was PUBLICLY announced by the developers (and attempting to say that I don't). Can you really blame us?

And this has nothing to do with SMD, good grief. SMD is just the name given to the game's official forum...

 

[Lecic]

I'm done here. Once again SMD lives up to its expectation. I'm gone. You guys can't see any viuewpoint but your own. Sorry.

Back to the fun of the Fleet.

I'd say by the responses earlier on this thread, this isn't a SMD issue. This isn't a SMD vs MF issue.

You throw your fit and run away from some simple requests for evidence of your points, though. Have a nice day.

 

[TartarusMkII]

In multiplayer on most any server (even locally hosted with 2-3 players), PvP combat and/or combat with multiple AIs leaves ships spazzing out like a person having a seizure. Sometimes cannon and beam fire phase through targeted vessels without actually hitting them... ( game is laggy ) ...I can't trust any thing that Bench says at face value. He constantly over hypes new features and has literally nothing to do with the actual coding of the game (yay cat god).

Boarding isn't just another weapon. It's a completely different combat system. Balancing it requires experience in game balance- which none of these devs have. They are in over their heads.

Final point:
I don't want a crew. I don't NEED a crew. Building and piloting a ship is hard and arduous enough by myself. How is a crew going to make that process (from building -> piloting) any easier? What about new players? Most people don't fly ships larger than 200m/light destroyer size/30k oldmass anyway. Why the hell do they want a crew?

Thanks for the feedback.

I think you're totally right and justified about how laggy and inconsistent multiplayer -IS- right now. But I had an interesting thought on that that I wanted to share:

When we all began getting deep enough into Starmade to be posting on its forums, we chose to invest our time with a group of inexperienced independent programmers and designers to make a game we wanted to see developed. All we can hope for is that the team we've invested in continues to grow in experience and skill, and in my opinion, when Schema chose to hire more people and share his creative power with them, that proved to me that he and Schine promoted themselves to a new level. I do have faith in them.

Also, I can't confirm this of course, but it's very possible that we should continue to develop the game mechanics along side the technical code, simultaneously. One project does not necessarily need to wait for the other. So while multiplayer code progressively gets better at the hands of some programmers, the others can be free to work on game mechanics. This is all possible.

But more importantly, on your last point, I found this very interesting. It's true: not everyone gives a !@#$ about this feature. However, how I understand it, is that having crewmen man your systems only improves them; they are not supposed to be a necessity. So if you want to make a ship without them, you can, but they will be inferior to crewed ships (though less costly.)

 

[kiraen]

But more importantly, on your last point, I found this very interesting. It's true: not everyone gives a !@#$ about this feature.

While I am personally looking forward to crew, this still true for pretty much every aspect of the game. I am fairly drooling for the cargo update, but I can understand that a lot of people are annoyed at the delay before getting to 'good stuff'.
Transporters annoy me, but they are a fact and I am living with it. I think it would be better to disable ship-to-ship, but site-to-site comes in real handy on larger stations. Better then elevators. Do I expect to take flak for this opinion? Someone will probably try, but I already know it's not a popular thought so I'll just ignore you all anyway.
I think I just found my new sig...

 

[TartarusMkII]

While I am personally looking forward to crew, this still true for pretty much every aspect of the game. I am fairly drooling for the cargo update, but I can understand that a lot of people are annoyed at the delay before getting to 'good stuff'.
Transporters annoy me, but they are a fact and I am living with it. I think it would be better to disable ship-to-ship, but site-to-site comes in real handy on larger stations. Better then elevators. Do I expect to take flak for this opinion? Someone will probably try, but I already know it's not a popular thought so I'll just ignore you all anyway.
I think I just found my new sig...

Aw darn, to be honest, I don't want to be the flag-carrier of people who won't open their minds to new features! XD I personally love the idea of crews, and I do have faith in Schine to make it work without too much lag, given time and hard work. I admit, I am fully aware this game is made in Java, but it is also not doomed to technical failure like Minecraft was. SO I am just super unsure. But that comment wasn't really representative of anything I actually condone. Just a silly way to bring up the idea that, of course it's not a good idea to force complexity where people don't want it. But if the game is to grow and evolve, the fact is that older players will have to face new scary features and mechanics they did not have to deal with before. That is how anything in this reality grows; it becomes more complex. Sorry.

 

[Master_Artificer]

I'm done here. Once again SMD lives up to its expectation. I'm gone. You guys can't see any viuewpoint but your own. Sorry.

Back to the fun of the Fleet.

Oh my god this just happened.

Spoiler: Mered4 be all like:

 

[Nauvran]

I'm done here. Once again SMD lives up to its expectation. I'm gone. You guys can't see any viuewpoint but your own. Sorry.

Back to the fun of the Fleet.

Wait, so you are getting upset that some of the people here are trying to help you understand how this all functions and how to make the game balanced?
By saying what you just said you are living up to what some might call the expectation of the Mushroomfleet community.
So please try not to create anymore problems between the two communities by saying such things.

 

[Thalanor]

By boiling down everything to a problem between SMD (the official starmade forum, btw) and your community, you are not doing it a favor, Mered4 . Look at the fantastic server presentation post plusnine made. Clearly, there are people in your community capable of great things. Don't ruin it for them.

 

[Nauvran]

By boiling down everything to a problem between SMD (the official starmade forum, btw) and your community, you are not doing it a favor, Mered4 . Look at the fantastic server presentation post plusnine made. Clearly, there are people in your community capable of great things. Don't ruin it for them.

Sadly this can be said for the SMD community too.
There are good and bad people on both sides.