Transporters: no transport on same entity

[GaeasSon]

OK (meditates on the thread so far) Let me see of I have this straight...

>> Site to site transport (SST) within the same structure encourages bad design.
That depends on what you mean by "bad". As a builder of replicas of existing designs, some ships don't conform to the requirements of rails. Google trek and "Oberth, Miranda, and Luna" classes. Obviously I have an investment in site to site transport.

>> SST is over-powered because crew can use it but Boarders can't.
To an extent, the same is true of doors... but you can burn through a door. It's a good criticism though. I can imagine a ship that is essentially a block of systems and armor with a tiny RP area at the center, and a boarding transporter on the outer hull. But then I can imagine the same ship where the entry corridor is filled by advanced armor plates on rails. So I'm not sure it's more OP than that. Heck it could even be a liability if SST were hackable in some way. It might be easier to hack a boarding transporter than burn through 20 blocks of blast door.

And my final and most compelling argument... Just make it server settable. If you don't like it you can't have any.



OK, I do have more to say... One way to nerf transporters that's actually fun is to take hints from our narrative sources. Why don't Kirk and company solve every problem with transporter technology?

• Any damage to the ship has a moderate percentage chance of blowing out the transporter, stranding unwary crew wherever they happen to be until the ship is rebooted.
• Regions of space are unstable/irradiated/inhabited by subspace godwhales.. "transporters will'na work here Cap'n!"
  
• Occasionally (Small percentage chance) transporters send you somewhere entirely other than you intended. (other ships, nearby planets, far away planets, 20 meters from the hull)
• Occasionally (Small percentage chance) You will arrive mutated into a spider, yhole or subspace godwhale, or maybe an angry example of the above will just materialize on the pad after you.

 

[friendofvampires]

OK, I'll be the first to admit that I've been out of the game for a little over a month, and that transporters brought me back with a passion. I play on a small server with my friends and a few random people who wandered over, and my transport use is limited, but has been fun. I have 2 on my (incomplete) station, and one on every ship except for my planet eater, where i also put one on the mining "arm". According to everyone, this is A-OK usage, correct?

Now if i filled my corridors with systems/armor and put in just transporters, that's bad, according to the anti-SST people, yes? For the reason its "overpowered" and makes boarding, an already difficult tactic, even more difficult.

Personally, I am a PvE, miner/builder, and have dreaded real PvP, and the torch scares the sh*t out of me, because people can straight up take my stuff, but I never spoke out against it, because it adds depth for PvPrs and i can put up defenses and play a bit smarter. IF i had my way, i would personally replace the torch with a hacker tool that takes comparable time to a torch, but just let people use my transporters, gravity blocks, doors, ect for whatever period of time (say, 10 sec) and let them kick me out of the core/kill me in it/whatever. Now my stuff is safe from straight greifing that i would have a hard time fully stopping and boarding is still viable, transporters aren't OP, and we all go home happy, yes?

(sidenote: transporters eating shields is understandable but still kinda weird and also should happen in SST. if it does that, then it doesn't need a power cost)

 

[Mered4]

I'd like to get a few things straight here:

According to the 'transporter meta', transporters can't 'work' through shields. Thus, the shields have to go down in some manner when a transporter is used. Between the same entity (SST) or between two docked entities the shields shouldn't drop because the transporter beam never leaves the shield 'bubble'. Makes sense, I see no reason to change this 'meta'.

Second: Boarding will not ever be a viable tactic in PvP unless it is the far superior option to shooting the crap out of the enemy. It is not 'difficult' in the current build. It is impossible unless the enemy player is a complete idiot or playing along. With that in mind, claiming SSTs make boarding somehow harder than it is already is almost laughable. Yes, I can leave you no way to my core by using the transporter system. I could just as easily built two Anti-Personnel turrets on the top and bottom of my ship for sniping any grappled astronauts. There really isn't a difference aside from the entity count.

And finally: SST doesn't promote 'bad design' for interiors. This is a sandbox game. Everyone's designs are just fine. Transporters between the hangar and the core room for a combat ship? Sure! I'll take it. Did that on my Star Destroyer to save space and avoid an awkward ten block vertical grav elevator. I'm also building a ship with an interconnected, standard interior. It's going to have transporters at the important spots (observation deck, core, bridge, etc) and hallways to each. Each design is just as valid, they just have different goals in mind. One is primarily aesthetic and RP, one is primarily combat.

TL;DR:
Boarding is stupid, even with the new NPC system that's supposed to be coming. That isn't a good reason to nullify SST.

 

[Dire Venom]

Quote from above, for some reason it didnt work XD

""Well the definition of fair is the opposite of stealing.
But what about the risk vs reward?
If you try to steal somebody's ship, you risk what exactly? a trip to the undeathinator? big whoop.
if you succeed, you've just stolen a lot of time, effort, and resources that some poor guy put into his ship. And the only cost to the thief is time.
and if the blue print isn't available to the public, you've just stolen his secrets as well.""

Youve got some good points, however at what point would a boarding be able to take place???
If your flying it around, theres no way a player could just jump on, and if they could theyre extremely easy to counter.
Even if your stopped for a time, killing borders only takes a tiny blast, or one missile which requires under 5 or so mins to set up when pre building your ship and then youll never have to worry about them again ^_^

 

[Lecic]

Between the same entity (SST) or between two docked entities the shields shouldn't drop because the transporter beam never leaves the shield 'bubble'.

Shields aren't a bubble, though. They're a skin that covers everything, including the inside of the ship.

It is impossible unless the enemy player is a complete idiot or playing along.

False. It is impossible to board someone through their hallways, yes, but you can always make your own hallways.

Besides, do you REALLY think that being able to kill off boarders by flooding it with shit is going to stay?

f you try to steal somebody's ship, you risk what exactly? a trip to the undeathinator? big whoop.

Depends entirely on what server you play on. Boarding is a bigger risk on servers where you're losing millions of credits worth of boarding gear, plus a % of whatever credits you have on you.

 

[alterintel]

Depends entirely on what server you play on. Boarding is a bigger risk on servers where you're losing millions of credits worth of boarding gear, plus a % of whatever credits you have on you.

Yeah I think this is a decent compromise. But in addition it would also be nice to lose faction points as well when you die. So in the future when base invulnerability costs faction points you would need to make sure you have enough faction points saved up before you risk your life. Other wise you would risk losing your own home base invulnerability. In effect going to war would indirectly cost faction points due to player deaths.

I think it would make astronaut combat more exciting, and make boarding a much more risky endeavor.

 

[Mered4]

Shields aren't a bubble, though. They're a skin that covers everything, including the inside of the ship.



False. It is impossible to board someone through their hallways, yes, but you can always make your own hallways.

Besides, do you REALLY think that being able to kill off boarders by flooding it with shit is going to stay?



Depends entirely on what server you play on. Boarding is a bigger risk on servers where you're losing millions of credits worth of boarding gear, plus a % of whatever credits you have on you.

Lol.

LOL.

Lecic, go pvp please. It is impossible to board ships, and me filling my hallways with swarmers or hull blocks isn't going to change that. And I'm not even saying it is possible to get to the SKIN of the ship. You'll get murdered long before then.

Make your own hallway? With what, your torch? It takes minutes to grind through advanced armor or multiple layers of system blocks. I'll just jump into a sun at that point to rid myself of this pest that I purposely allowed on my ship.

This is a sandbox game, not ftl. Let's focus on that, eh? I'm still waiting for that awesome AI update. You know, the one that fixed pirate spawns, adds minor fleet control, and actually useful NPCs.

 

[FatCobra]

I'll say it again. Make the ability to transport on the same entity a configuration option. On my small private server we are entirely PVE so I want the ability to use transporters on the same entity. If a server owner doesn't like that then let them turn it off.

Mered4 is right it's a SANDBOX game play the way you want to but we should not impede others from playing the way they want to.

 

[Edymnion]

Or how about we all just stop responding to this entirely so it will fall off the front page and never be heard from again?

Its pretty obvious by now that nothing is going to happen about it, things are going to stay the way they are, so to quote a princess that you can't freaking get away from this time of year: Let it Go...

 

[Lecic]

Make your own hallway? With what, your torch? It takes minutes to grind through advanced armor or multiple layers of system blocks. I'll just jump into a sun at that point to rid myself of this pest that I purposely allowed on my ship.

Chainsaw torch is your friend. System blocks don't stand a chance.

It appears the devs actually want FTL-like boarding. Use the transporter to teleporter human or NPC boarders directly into the enemy ship. You know, that awesome AI update that adds things like actually useful NPCs?

Its pretty obvious by now that nothing is going to happen about it

"Stop complaining about waffleboard AMCs! It's pretty obvious by now that nothing is going to happen about it."
"Stop complaining about shields generators having too much regen and making big ships invincible! It's pretty obvious by now that nothing is going to happen about it."
"Stop complaining about missilemade! It's pretty obvious by now that nothing is going to happen about it."
"Stop complaining about the crafting system! It's pretty obvious by now hat nothing is going to happen about it."

These are all arguments I've heard before when people ask for imbalances or bad mechanics to be fixed. The devs have always listened and fixed these issues. It might not be immediate, but they pay attention. I would hardly count this as a solved case because there's been a single update since they were added and it hasn't been changed yet.

 

[Mered4]

Chainsaw torch is your friend. System blocks don't stand a chance.

It appears the devs actually want FTL-like boarding. Use the transporter to teleporter human or NPC boarders directly into the enemy ship. You know, that awesome AI update that adds things like actually useful NPCs?



"Stop complaining about waffleboard AMCs! It's pretty obvious by now that nothing is going to happen about it."
"Stop complaining about shields generators having too much regen and making big ships invincible! It's pretty obvious by now that nothing is going to happen about it."
"Stop complaining about missilemade! It's pretty obvious by now that nothing is going to happen about it."
"Stop complaining about the crafting system! It's pretty obvious by now hat nothing is going to happen about it."

These are all arguments I've heard before when people ask for imbalances or bad mechanics to be fixed. The devs have always listened and fixed these issues. It might not be immediate, but they pay attention. I would hardly count this as a solved case because there's been a single update since they were added and it hasn't been changed yet.

This isn't a bad mechanic or even an imbalance. Boarding is a buzzword that the devs have been throwing around lately when they release new astronaut tools. It's not even in the game and it won't be unless starmade's combat mechanics change dramatically to favor it.

Boarding is a pipe dream, while half decent AI code to fix the utterly broken AI system we have now is a must have for people to want to stick around.

Also, you cannot drill through my ship if you are dead.

 

[Lecic]

It's not even in the game

Ah, right. Guess those ships that my faction has captured through boarding before were just hallucinations.

it won't be unless starmade's combat mechanics change dramatically to favor it.

Does "being able to beam into a random occupied room on an enemy vessel, and them not being able to instakill you using ship weapons" not sound like a dramatic change to make boarding viable?

Also, you cannot drill through my ship if you are dead.

So uh... you do know being in a star hurts astronauts regardless of whether or not you're in a core, right? Using heatseekers to kill astronauts will be a horrible idea in the future, as they'll either a) make heatseekers unable to target astronauts, or b) you'll be killing your own NPC crew with them. The same issue applies with pulses or other weapons to clear up boarders. You'll kill your friendly crew that are in the same room.

 

[GaeasSon]

I recommend we move this thread to "General Discussion/Boarding Strategies"

 

[Dire Venom]

So uh... you do know being in a star hurts astronauts regardless of whether or not you're in a core, right? Using heatseekers to kill astronauts will be a horrible idea in the future, as they'll either a) make heatseekers unable to target astronauts, or b) you'll be killing your own NPC crew with them. The same issue applies with pulses or other weapons to clear up boarders. You'll kill your friendly crew that are in the same room.

Regarding stars, all you do is have a couple of heal blocks near your core. Just jump to a sector near the sun and use them to constantly heal yourself. The boarders on the other hand wouldn't have access to any heal blocks and would thus roast alive.
Regarding ship defense, having a couple of turrents (target:Astronauts) inside the ship can easily mop up any intruders.

Boarding is definatly a novelty, and not worth it unless the player is Afk or not online. But it that case, you could just use your ship to drill out their faction modual anyway ^_^

 

[Lecic]

Regarding stars, all you do is have a couple of heal blocks near your core. Just jump to a sector near the sun and use them to constantly heal yourself. The boarders on the other hand wouldn't have access to any heal blocks and would thus roast alive.
Regarding ship defense, having a couple of turrents (target:Astronauts) inside the ship can easily mop up any intruders.

Boarding is definatly a novelty, and not worth it unless the player is Afk or not online. But it that case, you could just use your ship to drill out their faction modual anyway ^_^

Considering how stars destroy random blocks on your ship, I think it wouldn't be unlikely for a block of your JD to get broken... at which point, you're rather fucked, since you can't jump out.

 

[Mered4]

Regarding stars, all you do is have a couple of heal blocks near your core. Just jump to a sector near the sun and use them to constantly heal yourself. The boarders on the other hand wouldn't have access to any heal blocks and would thus roast alive.
Regarding ship defense, having a couple of turrents (target:Astronauts) inside the ship can easily mop up any intruders.

Boarding is definatly a novelty, and not worth it unless the player is Afk or not online. But it that case, you could just use your ship to drill out their faction modual anyway ^_^

Exactly. It also has no advantages over 'regular' ship combat aside from the exploit BS.

I only have to be in a star for around five -10 seconds to kill off any intruders. A heal canister or two should suffice to keep me alive for the duration.

Boarding wouldn't be viable even if swarmers couldn't target astronauts. Like I said earlier - you can't even get close to my ship if I've got astronaut sniper turrets on it. For it to succeed the enemy has to be oblivious.

 

[GaeasSon]

ok.... you kids have fun. (un-follows thread)

 

[FatCobra]

ok.... you kids have fun. (un-follows thread)

How can I un-follow the thread?

 

[Lecic]

Boarding wouldn't be viable even if swarmers couldn't target astronauts. Like I said earlier - you can't even get close to my ship if I've got astronaut sniper turrets on it. For it to succeed the enemy has to be oblivious.

Through transporters you will be able to try and target onto another enemy ship. If your targeting reticle detects a quarter it will start to try and lock on, however you won’t know what quarter you’re targeting.

Bruh... did you even read the Development Direction post...

How can I un-follow the thread?

"Unwatch Thread" button, right at the top.

 

[Ithirahad]

Unwatch Thread button at the top-right of the thread interface.