Brainstorm This #The Solution to Economy - The Exchange

[Winterhome]

y'know, I wouldn't mind there being vendor trash items and commodities that make NPC crews happier, but I don't think that the auction house should be reserved for things that can't be sold to NPC shops. NPC shops are cursed with the problem of limited supplies of materials and a lack of bartering.


On the note of the Auction House system, I feel as though there should also be an option to accept payment in the form of certain kinds of blocks or resources. Either credits or blocks. Y'know, for people who have a ridiculous excess of missile tubes and want shield caps, or something.

 

[Bench]

I'd like you to be able to trade resource for resource, rather than just credits

 

[djthekiller]

if we were to have this, it wouldnt be all taht hard to make, because there is a block ID that currently players cant get at all, and that is in the npc shops, if that were turned into this "Trade" network, then we can save a Block ID that can activate, and to spawn an NPC you would need to have a certain amount of undeathinators near it for the npc

 

[ShadowPilot]

Actually, no. You can sell all items you get from NPC to an NPC. As far as buying things from NPCs that are still sold on GE. Dragon Chain, Dragon Longsword, Dragon helm, glory amulets, etc. The only difference is those items never drop below what they cost at npc shops in the GE.

Should any adventurer with a brain want to turn profit it would leave a pathway open for traders who go around and buy low then sell high. When you buy things from a player you are not paying for the resource, rather you are paying for the time invested into getting it. Since all shops are never fully stocked or beyond 10k in a resource, you'll be paying that trader for warping 9,001 times to each and every shop to acquire the items you want to buy. We have to continue to reward the player for his time put into the game, not the pathway of his resource acquisition, whether he be a miner, factory worker, pirate hunter, trader, or hauler. I think the exchange should sell all items, not be limited to non NPC blocks. Otherwise what's the point of implementing this at all?

 

[Rezerian]

^Hit the nail on the head. There is little playability factor outside mine, grind, and fight. When these people come together to create an economy you'll see servers bustling to life. I have seen time and time again players create mining/hauling corporations then leave because there is no viable reason to have them.

Now what the Grand exchange did do is limit trade of high priced items to once every 3 hours and limited the amount you could sell of those items to 100 every day. This could be done, however I don't feel this is neccesary since computers and things will get cheaper when the exchange comes out. Which is why prices at npc shops need to fluctuate with the exchange. Otherwise we'll forever have computers be the go to cash cows.

 

[kiraen]

The price of 'computers and things' right now is at cost. They are exactly equal to the sum of their parts. There is no difference in selling the individual capsules then there is in selling the completed product. With an actual economy in play the price of 'computers and things' will go up with the addition of overhead (paying your crew, repairing your ship, hiring escorts) and mark-up (the actual profit margin).

 

[whooplaah]

Which is why prices at npc shops need to fluctuate with the exchange. Otherwise we'll forever have computers be the go to cash cows.

That's a good suggestion. One option is to have the Player Market reserved for items that NPC shops don't sell - but the other is what you suggested. If shop prices updated to within +-10% of the average price of the item on the Player Market then the PM can also be viable for NPC shop items.

Of course, you would want to make sure that the calculated average price of an item is based upon what players are actually paying, and not just the posted prices.

 

[DukeofRealms]

I have revived this thread from the dead, apologies for the downtime!

​

 

[ShadowPilot]

Wooo!!! I thought we lost a good idea. Will it get its brainstorm tag back?

 

[alterintel]

I'm envisioning a "Craig's List" of sorts.
You put up contract, and in that contract you publish five things:
1) what you want
2) payment
3) where to exchange goods for payment.
4) the time limit to fill the contract
5) a brief message or description

What you want can be any thing from blocks, to meta items.
Payment can be anything as well.
It May even help to have multiple contracts of the same goods but with each contract having a different form of payment. These contracts could then be linked so that if one of them got filled, it would cancel the other contracts. This would allow for multiple forms of payment.

New types of meta items may be necessary:

1) A player's head for bounty missions

maybe don't limit this to player heads, but somehow include pirate, or trade guild heads as well?​

2) An Arrival / Escort Seal

This would be a bit more complicated, but it would basically need to be a meta item that can only be generated once the ship you were contracted to protect makes it to it's destination.​

3) Star Chart meta item could be used to fill in the map under the "P" menu.​

Any ways the point is to have some kind of meta item as proof of your deeds.

This takes care of a couple of things:

• cargo runs would make sense since you would have to get the resources some how and then deliver them to where ever the contract is vs just dumping them at the nearest shop or trade guild station. Getting the cargo would be kind of a mission of itself as well. Is it cheaper to buy from a shop or more efficient to gather the resources your self?
• bounties would be simple if there was a player's head meta item.
• escort missions would need that Escort Seal I was talking about above.
• Selling of ships would be easy, just put up the blueprint. Would be better if we could test a ship in an empty test sector before we decided to buy it though?
• The Star Chart meta item could be used for exploration missions.

To counter a violation of the contract or to prevent greifing, an escrow system should be setup.

Thoughts you guys?

 

[TheWurm]

I'm envisioning a "Craig's List" of sorts.
You put up contract, and in that contract you publish four things:
1) what you want
2) payment
3) where to exchange goods for payment.
4) a brief message or description

What you want can be any thing from blocks, to meta items.
Payment can be anything as well.
It May even help to have multiple contracts of the same goods but with each contract having a different form of payment. These contracts could then be linked so that if one of them got filled, it would cancel the other contracts. This would allow for multiple forms of payment.

New types of meta items may be necessary:

1) A player's head for bounty missions

maybe don't limit this to player heads, but somehow include pirate, or trade guild heads as well?​

2) An Arrival / Escort Seal

This would be a bit more complicated, but it would basically need to be a meta item that can only be generated once the ship you were contracted to protect makes it to it's destination.​

3) Star Chart meta item could be used to fill in the map under the "P" menu.​

Any ways the point is to have some kind of meta item as proof of your deeds.

This takes care of a couple of things:

• cargo runs would make sense since you would have to get the resources some how and then deliver them to where ever the contract is vs just dumping them at the nearest shop or trade guild station. Getting the cargo would be kind of a mission of itself as well. Is it cheaper to buy from a shop or more efficient to gather the resources your self?
• bounties would be simple if there was a player's head meta item.
• escort missions would need that Escort Seal I was talking about above.
• Selling of ships would be easy, just put up the blueprint. Would be better if we could test a ship in an empty test sector before we decided to buy it though?
• The Star Chart meta item could be used for exploration missions.

Thoughts you guys?

My only thoughts are these:

1."Player's ID Chip" sounds way more spacey than "Player's head"
2. This system could mesh well with crew management and NPC factions, it would be really nice to be able to use the same interface to send ships off to gather or protect or attack a base once your faction reaches the point where it's viable. Maybe once a crew member gains enough experience to captain a ship, you would have the ability to assign them a contract and a ship to fulfill it in, then have them head off into the stars. I'd love to see other captains cruising the galaxy on missions, it would make for an interesting atmosphere.

 

[Megacrafter127]

1) what you want
2) payment
3) where to exchange goods for payment.
4) a brief message or description

5) what happens if one party violates the contract.

 

[alterintel]

5) what happens if one party violates the contract.

Thanks Megacrafter127,
I think the best way to handle this would be some kind of escrow system.

When a player creates a contract he is putting his "payment" into escrow
The escrow payment can only be unlocked by a time limit or the requested item.
if the request item is submitted in time, then the payment goes to whoever submitted the item.
if the requested item is not submitted in time, then the contract is canceled and the payment goes back to the originator.

I'll go ahead and edit my original message to reflect this new requirement.

 

[ShadowPilot]

I like that idea, that would allow contracts whilst protecting from scammers

 

[Megacrafter127]

Thanks Megacrafter127,
I think the best way to handle this would be some kind of escrow system.

When a player creates a contract he is putting his "payment" into escrow
The escrow payment can only be unlocked by a time limit or the requested item.
if the request item is submitted in time, then the payment goes to whoever submitted the item.
if the requested item is not submitted in time, then the contract is canceled and the payment goes back to the originator.

I'll go ahead and edit my original message to reflect this new requirement.

I was more thinking along the lines of being able to change diplomatic relationships, should a faction violate a contract with another faction.

 

[alterintel]

Yeah, I'm not sure how the game would be able to track the kind of contract that could potentially be violated.

 

[jgames666]

WARNING: LONG IDEA...

TLDR: More options for exchange, shipping, and paying for player/AI guards and shipper.

I really like the idea of a universal exchange block that can be used in conjunction with a shop module to allow players to buy/sell and access the exchange.

The exchange would add different TABs in the shop you could go to then select from categories set up just like the shop but under Two main categories, Buy and Trade. There should also be a Tab to list on the exchange as a trade or sale.

If you list items for sale there should be a listing fee and shipping fee. The shipping fee should be enough to pay a player or AI crew to come get the items from where they are located and ship them to the buyers purchase location, or a specific location requested in the purchase order. Once the quest is accepted it will dissapear from the quest que, so no other traders can see or get it. To get these quests, shippers will have to meet the correct shipping level. First come, first serve for each of the shipper tiers (read below to understand this part). The person or AI crew that takes on the quest will then get a chance to see the quest and start on it. Once the shipper transfers the items to the correct location, the money will transfer to the seller and the shipping payment to the shippers. If the shippers, do not do the quest after a certain time period it becomes available to the next player/AI willing to take the quest. The players who abandon quests will also have a penalty for it. For a certain time period they will be unable to take any more quests.

This would make shipping vulnerable to pirates, but it would add an aspect of game-play in that alone.

Also, as a response to that I was thinking of two systems where the player can sell or buy with better levels of faith in. Both could be added to the game and be used, if desired, on the same shipment.

The First System: Add a reputation to anyone who takes shipping jobs on the exchange, so that players can request a certain level of shipper and pay shipping based on the shipper's level. You would choose your shipper level when you sell items on the exchange, or leave it up to the buyer. If you leave it up to the buyer the buyer assumes the risk involved in his transaction and he pays the shipping. In other-words, as soon as he pays, the shipper will be notified and when he picks up the goods the seller would receive the payment, not when the items are delivered like in the example above. The Shipper will get his payment after delivery.

Shipper levels could be set up like this: (Shippers can consist of AI crews also in this idea; the same rules apply) (Also, AI factions can buy or sell on the exchange.)

Level 1 : Trader --- Lowest cost shipping, all new shippers are in this category. You have obviously no idea if you will actually get what you ship. However, for something unimportant you may choose to sell this way. Also, keep in mind no shippers can get to any of the next levels if they do not work through this tough level. Any shipper with fewer than 5 successful shipments ever and/or more than 20 unsuccessful shipments in the last 60 days.
Level 2: Merchant --- Next to lowest Tier of Shipping vessel, Low cost, better likelihood of getting cargo. This class should contain ships that have had 5 or more successful shipments ever, and less than 10 unsuccessful shipments in the last 60 days.
Level 3: Marketer --- Pretty good tier cargo vessel, decent cost VS reliability. This level would consist of shippers who have completed 10 or more successful shipments ever, and less than 5 unsuccessful shipments in the last 60 days.
Level 4: Freighter --- Higher cost, more reliable shipper. This level would consist of shippers who have completed 20 or more successful shipments ever, and less than 5 unsuccessful shipments in the last 120 days.
Level 5: Carrier --- Expensive cost, most reliable shipper. This level would consist of shippers who have completed 50 or more successful shipments ever, and 0 unsuccessful shipments in the last 120 days.

The Second System: Insurance Convoys to defend your shipper. From the exchange when you purchase, you should be able to hire a guard-ship/Convoy.

This would work similar to the shipping quest Que, except each player or AI Convoy will signal under the quests menu that they are currently taking convoy quests. Any available convoys will show up in a menu if you want to purchase a convoy at the end of a purchase in the exchange. The convoy sets their price when they state they are accepting convoy quests. The buyer decides whether or not to pay for it depending on what he is shipping and the stats of the convoy which will be displayed on the exchange. The Convoy will not receive the payment until the buyer has received his goods. He is only paid if he is successful. He will receive a message if a shipper fails to show up for the job. That way he is not waiting forever for the shipper if he doesn't pick up items for delivery.
Convoy Tiers:
Level 1 : Escort --- Lowest Tier Convoy, all new convoys are in this category. These will be less experienced convoys. However, for something unimportant you may choose purchase this way. Also, keep in mind no convoys can get to any of the next tiers if they do not work through this tier. Any convoy with fewer than 5 successful shipments ever and/or more than 20 unsuccessful shipments in the last 60 days.
Level 2: Ward --- Next to lowest Tier of Convoy, Low cost, better likelihood of getting your shipper. This class should contain ships that have had 5 or more successful shipments ever, and less than 10 unsuccessful shipments in the last 60 days.
Level 3: Defender --- Pretty good tier Convoy, decent cost VS reliability. This level would consist of convoys who have completed 10 or more successful shipments ever, and less than 5 unsuccessful shipments in the last 60 days.
Level 4: Sentinel --- Higher cost, more reliable Convoy. This level would consist of convoys who have completed 20 or more successful shipments ever, and less than 5 unsuccessful shipments in the last 120 days.
Level 5: Guardian --- Expensive cost, most reliable Convoy. This level would consist of convoys who have completed 50 or more successful shipments ever, and 0 unsuccessful shipments in the last 120 days.

This idea is totally up for discussion, but I think a system like this would be the best for game play. Feel free to reply and let me know what you all think. Tweak any numbers or anything to add at all I think is good. This is my first thought about this, so I want to make it better if I can.

Thanks for reading this LONG post.

EDIT: As for factions breaking contracts, I think that the faction should be notified if one was broken or a shipping convoy was destroyed, but they would have to track down the killed shipper or convoy to get the full story and decide if they need to take action against someone or a faction. Also, when a contract/quest is picked up the buyer and seller should be notified with the name/s of the convoy/shipper on their job.

 

[Voldrath]

I think the biggest problem with the current player shop system is uncertainty. Rather than an entirely new exchange I propose a option to list shops on a directory. If you were to search the directory for a type of block you would get a list of shops that carry that block their price (credits or other blocks) and the physical location. To prevent flying halfway across the galaxy only to find a freshly emptied shop, you could place an escrow request through your local trading guild broker. For a nominal handling fee an time limited escrow pack will be generated at a trading guild auto-shop near the seller. If you still don't want to fly all the way over there, you could place a delivery request, generating a mission, that could be accepted by anyone including the original seller, to ferry the packet to an auto-shop of your choosing. The use of T.G. shops is to provide reliable pickup and delivery points in a potentially war torn galaxy.

 

[ShadowPilot]

Fixing shops does not fix a broken economy. You are still relying upon an either an admin or NPC to stock said shop with credits or blocks.

Schine wants to give the power of the economy to the players. Simply fixing shops as you lot keep suggesting will not create the jobs the exchange will, it will not stabilize the economy, and it continues to make resource acquisition or production a grind.

 

[HolyCookie]

I'd like to have a trade system for trading in person.
Right now the way to trade is drop your stuff and trust the person that he won't steal, or have a station.
A simple system that allows you to open a trade hud where you can put an offer and see what the other playing is offering, then an easy button to accept trade.