The Quickfire Initiative: Rebalancing StarMade.

[The Quickfire Initiative]

Quickfire is now running the latest dev builds. Please update your clients to the DEV branch to use our configs and join the test server.

 

[Simulcrum]

Is it possible to use positive values for the shield/armor/system damage type resistances? So, instead of the values for armor being 0,-1,0 they would be 1,0,1. Right now you can deplete 500k shields with a single 400k shot and that seems strange.

 

[12yanogden]

What are the new formulas for thrust and speed? Although some components of the formulas are mentioned in the Quickfire Initiative google doc and in parts of this forum, no complete formulas have been introduced.

 

[Scypio]

Nothing changed. Only the numbers did. So if you have a ratio of 1/1 in thrusts and mass you'll have 1 tmr. And if you have 3 times the thrusts compared to your mass you'll have 3 tmr. 1 tmr is approximately 100 m/s.

Then to calculate the thrusts you'll have to join our discord or open the blockbehavior.xml to get the last version of it. As of now it is currently : 3 x (Nbr^(0.79) x 8.0)
Where Nbr is the number of thrusters modules.

If you have weird things with the thrusts be sure to manually clean your cache and use the correct server.cfg.

 

[Sildaran]

Does the dev build use the latest version of the quickfire config? Wondering if i should be just using the latest stable release and updating quickfire config or just keeping up to the latest dev build.

Also armor in the quickfire config for latest dev build is crazy strong. Can upload specifics from weapons testing later if need be.

 

[kiddan]

Does the dev build use the latest version of the quickfire config?

I'm pretty certain Quickfire updates more frequently than the dev build.

 

[SchnellBier]

There should be an update for dev build that has newer config values that probably fix the armor situation. Also I'm pretty sure you have to use the dev build because if I remember right there are some changes to the calculations (by schema) that are needed for it to work. I don't think they made it into release yet.

 

[Sildaran]

In testing for the config changes in quickfire. Did this team get any weapons to reliably hit on a BobbyAI turret? Some testing shows beams try to always aim for the target lead indicator. Even the lockon beam spends maybe 1 or 2 ticks then fires well ahead off a strafing isanth. Like it was trying to target the lead. Cannons seem to try to target the lead but always come up short. Right now it seems either CC and hope you get ~10% hit rate or missles with a ~40% hit rate. Feels like only weapons you can use on a turret is CC (dakka dakka) spray or missiles. Everything else is just a waste.

 

[EricBlank]

Yeah turret ai is practically nonexistent right now in starmade. And lock on missiles, lock on beams and Cc are going to be the best weapons in this config anyway, it's what these guys plan for the future of the game.

 

[Sildaran]

So sad... not going to turn this into another how starmade regressed... but really annoying seeing the difference between weapons 1.0 cannon/beam/pulse.. explosive/ion/pierce/punch being degrees of useful on turrets and all the ship side effects... to now this. Sorry just a little venting no intent to start that debate over again.

 

[Ithirahad]

In testing for the config changes in quickfire. Did this team get any weapons to reliably hit on a BobbyAI turret? Some testing shows beams try to always aim for the target lead indicator. Even the lockon beam spends maybe 1 or 2 ticks then fires well ahead off a strafing isanth. Like it was trying to target the lead. Cannons seem to try to target the lead but always come up short. Right now it seems either CC and hope you get ~10% hit rate or missles with a ~40% hit rate. Feels like only weapons you can use on a turret is CC (dakka dakka) spray or missiles. Everything else is just a waste.

I've seen similar, albeit inconsistent, issues with beam aiming. There's nothing we can do about it; it's a code issue and not a config one. Cannons can hit sometimes, but it seems to depend on acceleration direction and relative velocity. Again, that's a Schema problem. We aren't going to try to rewrite AI. If you can convince a modder to take on that herculean task, then I wish you and them all the best. Otherwise, complain to Schema. :P
[doublepost=1569964528,1569964418][/doublepost]

So sad... not going to turn this into another how starmade regressed... but really annoying seeing the difference between weapons 1.0 cannon/beam/pulse.. explosive/ion/pierce/punch being degrees of useful on turrets and all the ship side effects... to now this. Sorry just a little venting no intent to start that debate over again.

Ditto. It was Schema's choice to remove all of those effects, not ours, and there is little we can do about that. We're trying to make the existing systems work wherever possible, but we aren't going to attempt to mod entirely new behavior into the game from whole cloth (or integrate/reimplement old behavior that isn't compatible with the new weapon systems). We aren't a Java modding team.

 

[Sildaran]

I said venting frustration. Not aimed at this group or anyone in particular. Has for the AI was hoping that maybe this team had tweaked with the AI aim distance a bit in the config and got it to hit a little more often. Oh well. Feel free to ignore this rambling.

 

[Scypio]

And yet look who and what is the first answer you got. Venting here isn't healthy.

By the way, if you want to hit stuff you should try to shoot at something larger than isanths too. Also check your server.cfg.

 

[OfficialCoding]

Ok i didn't read everything but it seems like the qf devs are trying to bring back the *glory* of power 1 which is really stupid. Power 1 was awful. It was extremely meta pvp friendly. That appears to be what qf is trying to do, even if they do not admit it. They think that power 2 sucked because it took away their exploitive sh*t and now they are trying to remedy that. That's why chamber points are essentially gone.

My other issue with qf is that the reactor takes up half the ship. At the same time you need an insane number of shield blocks to get even half the shielding you used to be able to get.

Another thing that is really weird is that you take beam beam, which is already kinda op, and you remove all the debuffs and buff its range too 12km. I mean, WTF? It is obvious that this is just another meta pvp config, no matter how you try to dress it. This is a terrible config and you guys need to be stoppes before you f*ck up starmade.

 

[DukeofRealms]

Ok i didn't read everything

That's not a great start, you probably should read everything before commenting on it

it seems like the qf devs are trying to bring back the *glory* of power 1 which is really stupid. Power 1 was awful. It was extremely meta pvp friendly. That appears to be what qf is trying to do, even if they do not admit it. They think that power 2 sucked because it took away their exploitive sh*t and now they are trying to remedy that. That's why chamber points are essentially gone.

So, it's best if you go into detail about what in particular you disagree with and have an open mind to trying things out.

My other issue with qf is that the reactor takes up half the ship. At the same time you need an insane number of shield blocks to get even half the shielding you used to be able to get.

That's better, substance.

Another thing that is really weird is that you take beam beam, which is already kinda op, and you remove all the debuffs and buff its range too 12km

Good, this is substance.

I mean, WTF? It is obvious that this is just another meta pvp config, no matter how you try to dress it. This is a terrible config and you guys need to be stoppes before you f*ck up starmade.

This is bait, and this is how a thread gets polluted with flame.

Focus on substance, not baiting, attacks, or accusations. Let's keep this thread somewhat useful.

And this is for everyone, while you might all disagree with what's best for StarMade, just realise that those you disagree with have stuck around through the good and bad too. I think everyone here just wants to see steps taken towards a good gameplay experience. It's ok to get frustrated, but try to sometimes see the other perspective (even if you think it's wrong).

 

[Scypio]

Another thing that is really weird is that you take beam beam, which is already kinda op, and you remove all the debuffs and buff its range too 12km. I mean, WTF? It is obvious that this is just another meta pvp config, no matter how you try to dress it. This is a terrible config and you guys need to be stoppes before you f*ck up starmade.

To quote the first message from this thread :

Weapons:
[...]
-Replaced the broken Doom Beam with a high-range pulse laser

To add a few things on top of that. Vanilla BB got moved to BM for consistency reasons between weapons slaves. CM is the charging cannon, so BM should be the charging beam. The charging beam got tweaked a lot too to be more balanced. Removal of shields drop and huge drop in dps compared to vanilla.

 

[TheDerpGamerX]

Ok i didn't read everything but it seems like the qf devs are trying to bring back the *glory* of power 1 which is really stupid. Power 1 was awful. It was extremely meta pvp friendly.

Prove it. For once in your life, instead of just complaining without end, actually provide some backup to your statements.

That appears to be what qf is trying to do, even if they do not admit it. They think that power 2 sucked because it took away their exploitive sh*t and now they are trying to remedy that. That's why chamber points are essentially gone.

So you're saying that you are fine with vanilla power 2.0? That despite all the horseshit exploits and XBB clocks horrible imbalance you still like it? Power 2.0 isnt itself an inherently terrible idea. It's just that the way it was implemented was really bad. Cannons and missiles are useless. The only useful weapons are beam missile and XBB. Vanilla essentially limits you to 1 weapon if you don't want to get fucked on multiplayer.

My other issue with qf is that the reactor takes up half the ship. At the same time you need an insane number of shield blocks to get even half the shielding you used to be able to get.

We've told you this before and you still don't listen, so I'm going to put it in all caps in hopes you finally get it:
THAT IS ON PURPOSE-YOU DON'T NEED A BIG REACTOR TO POWER WEAPONS ANYMORE. WEAPONS ARE BETTER IN SMALLER SIZES INSTEAD OF JUST MASSIVE MEME GUNS. SHIELD REGEN HAS BEEN NERFED SO THAT THERE ARE NO MORE IMMORTAL MEME STICKS THAT HAVE 30 MILLION SHIELD REGEN WITH LOW DAMAGE CHAMBER. RELY ON ARMOR AND SHIELD CAPACITY.
We have had THIS exact same argument with you so many times in so many chats.

Another thing that is really weird is that you take beam beam, which is already kinda op, and you remove all the debuffs and buff its range too 12km. I mean, WTF? It is obvious that this is just another meta pvp config, no matter how you try to dress it. This is a terrible config and you guys need to be stoppes before you f*ck up starmade.

Beam Beam has had it's damaged nerfed and has been tuned so that it's actually like a rail gun as was it's original intention. But please, let's hear your idea of how to make Beam Beam like an actual railgun if your ideas are so superior, because the vanilla one is super broken and unusable. You are CLEARLY not here to add suggestions or contribute, you are here solely to flame and cause another fight. We are done with dealing with your bs. If you cannot contribute anything constructive you need to not post here.

I know I'm being a bit testy, but frankly I think I speak for most people here when I say that we've had it with this crap.

 

[DrTarDIS]

balance is nice. Broken partial implementations should probably take a bit more priority now though.
I agree ai aiming has a crappy curve. Either it's never miss accurate or total fail fireworks. Feels like there should be a happy medium somewhere in there that's being messed up by a bad tan or something. I know this isn't exactly a javamod as is made clear, but access to unobfuscated classes should let people track down some issues (assuming unobfuscated also means "in line notes are intact") Would be nice to see that kinda notes properly documented moving forward even if doing so for existing stuff is too man-hour-intensive.

Since RHP is really all that matters as far as combat is concerned...yeah Reactors SHOULD take up a big chunk of the projectile cross-section of any ship. With what we currently have making power=hitbox is the best fit and I begrudgingly agree with it. I personally still think RHP is backwards, that SHP was a good system, and that things like RHP should be NEGATIVE VALUES that subtract from the overall StructureHitPoints meaning high performance/dps/whatever results in a large hitbox with low hitpoints...but that's a deeper coding issue at this point with the original SHP modules AFAIK ripped right out and repurposed. Really feel like that balance was very close to being a thing if only the code had allowed for signed integers instead of just unsigned.

Doom beams are fine, be nice to see a doom-astrotek/salvager someday. I think that should be possible in configs, no? Or did they actually put a hardblock on mixing those systems?

Edit: And just as a side note... Crafting needs that same kinda TLC that the combat systems are getting. The game can't survive on just weapons hit scan, the economy needs to be looked at carefully too. Build-time-per-block (optimized or hand crafted, including gathering and refinery time) is the only REAL currency metric I've been able to find in the game. It's a total mess and produces so much "waste material" for investment to fill a ship blueprint it's a downright shame.

 

[Tsnonak]

I would also consider this:

chamber points are essentially gone.

substance.

Also, would it not be better and much less "invasive" to balance system blocks [<ReactorHp>40</ReactorHp>] in the BlockConfig?

 

[Zoolimar]

Also, would it not be better and much less "invasive" to balance system blocks [<ReactorHp>40</ReactorHp>] in the BlockConfig?

It doesn't work. At least for now.