Prerelease v0.200.250

[Raisinbat]

Schemas approach to game development:


You peed on shielding and armor so many times not getting hit is the only way to survive, lets see what gets schema to unzip their pants next!

You all make me sad.

Except Schema, who is a shining light atop my world.

and don't forget to swallow

 

[GnomeKing]

previous system absolutely allowed you to make RP interiors and have a generally good looking ship

This is true, and changes to thrusters and some other values have had more impact on 'freeing up space' than stabilizers and loss of XYZ-threads per se.

Details such as nacelles, rings, or fins which added only HP and armor HP were generally more weight in hull than they were worth in system volume, except on ships under the power soft-cap where these details provided a way to expand the box dimensions of the ship's power lines

There were issues with the 2mil power cap perhaps, and/or aux function, (personally, above the cap I considered a ship getting a bit too big anyway) - Chambers add variety and function to big reactors- But Stabilizers are a poor way to facilitate Massive ships, ie by making power easier and no cap. Other Solutions Were Possible and Better.

You guys have done a pretty good job except for this one issue. If left unchanged, StarMade would be better off on the old system.

Mass MUST be the Fundamental criteria for comparison (unless we want a dumb card-trading game with a bit of lego stuck on)

The new system balances off dimensions. This is a poor way to balance

In Power 1.0, mass mattered considerably more than it does now

Ship balance was mass based, as it should be

Compare ship sizes based on mass, not dimensions.

Good directions to take block-rules include;

You've got a mechanical reason for larger box dimensions compared to your amount of systems, but an equally important reason for connecting the projecting pieces and protecting the projections

There are numerous ways to implement many interesting block- and geometry-rules ; Stabilizer mechanic (even with simple block-touching rule) is a good reference to compare with XYZ, but is really poor as a main mechanic.

filling a shell with expanding foam rather than building machinery

Stabilizers are exactly that - just block spam in the nose of a ship, and undoubtedly the worst aspect of the update :/

 

[Scypio]

A lot of strings have been changed/moved around. We've been waiting until the strings are all set in place, now that's done, we still have to manually check CrowdIn strings are matching up with in-game ones.

It'll likely be imported today or tomorrow.

I know i can be annoying with that but being able to translate a big update before it's release will help a lot non english communities.

 

[Adaxia]

Where is all the creativity people claim this update is stifling?
A simple ring around your ship with stabilizers works, and is something I did with jump drives way before this update because I think it looks cool. Cover it with black armor and it's hard to see, let alone hit. I'm sure if half the effort displayed here was put into designing around this new system, you guys could come up with something too.

 

[Ithirahad]

Where is all the creativity people claim this update is stifling?
A simple ring around your ship with stabilizers works, and is something I did with jump drives way before this update because I think it looks cool. Cover it with black armor and it's hard to see, let alone hit. I'm sure if half the effort displayed here was put into designing around this new system, you guys could come up with something too.

And what if we don't want a giant ring around our ship because it screws with the aesthetics? Or want decent docking clearance from all sides? Or because that just makes no sense? I'm sure there will be plenty of ships with floating stabilizer solutions like this, but there's no good reason why this kind of thing should be necessary.

 

[Jarraff]

I don't like the stabilizer mechanic, it is currently easy to exploit. Put your stabilizers far away from your ship floating in space. Or make the dumbbell ship with some turrets.

Some things I do like about the update.

No more docked power, aside from spaghetti meta I think this was the most game breaking for balance. Spamming 2 million e/s power generators for each turret on your ship made large ships crazy overpowered. Simply eliminating this changes the way ships are built.

The chamber system seems pretty good.

Aiming the turrets while piloting.

Some things that could use work

The structural integrity mechanic, only really limits single strands. I have played around with the configs for this and it can be changed pretty easily. Unfortunately calculating each system individually makes meaningful restrictions penalize regular building.

Localized shields, the coverage bubble grows way too fast with respect to recharge. I could put stabilizers as far from my ship as I want and still shield them.

For the love of this game schema please use a different stabilizing/balancing mechanic for power. Make reactor blocks 5 mass each as to limit their use, or give power output logarithmic and linear ranges. Almost anything would be better than this one dimensional system.

 

[Adaxia]

And what if we don't want a giant ring around our ship because it screws with the aesthetics? Or want decent docking clearance from all sides? Or because that just makes no sense? I'm sure there will be plenty of ships with floating stabilizer solutions like this, but there's no good reason why this kind of thing should be necessary.

Then find your own solution to stabilizers. For example, instead of a long stick make a triangle akin to a Star Destroyer, reactor in the front stabilizers in both rear sides. There are plenty of ways to design a ship in the new system, it's just easier to complain about it than put thought into it.

 

[Aesthetics]

This seems like a step in the right direction, on paper.

 

[Scypio]

This old power prevented rp-builders from participating in pvp, if they didn't want to gut their interiors.

I really loved to put interior and still beat the crap out of people with my ships using interiors as baffled armor. Too bad someone else decided for me that my ships should have interiors or be efficient.

First of all, there are a grand total of zero decoration blocks that add armour HP.

I believe they have hull's stats now. To be confirmed though.

Then find your own solution to stabilizers. For example, instead of a long stick make a triangle akin to a Star Destroyer, reactor in the front stabilizers in both rear sides. There are plenty of ways to design a ship in the new system, it's just easier to complain about it than put thought into it.

Let's put everything that is valuable and should be protected in the front.
You missed the point though. I want to be able to build in the way i want my power, there is no points in not building your reactor/stabilizers in a stick. Everything is worst. Your ring ? Sucks at turn rate. Let's not talk about your reversed imperial star destroyer. I would rather build the other way around and have hundreds of blocks in front of my juicy reactor.
There is no point in spreading your stabilizers in the stabilizing sphere around your reactor except being blind and/or stupid. I got a better idea. I let your build a ball ship and see how stupid that is.

 

[Adaxia]

The ring goes around the ship, the ring isn't the ship. That image is the reactor only, in reality there would be something large inside of it and the ring itself would only be 20-30 meters separated from the hull, more if you like a thinner ship design. The point is that I found a solution that works for me personally, and there are plenty of other basic ideas to go off of that isn't a stick.

 

[DragonSoul9000]

StarMade v0.200.250 Prerelease News (Copied from the News Page)

How to use the new system


This systems makes ships work a lot differently. All ships made in the old power system, will not translate well into the new system. Simply swapping out the old power blocks with new ones does not make that ship functional again. Instead, we advise you to remove all power blocks, shields, thrusters and usables to start from a clean slate.

Ok so how many of you players that like to argue would like to tell me you enjoy the idea of having to take out all your systems and start from scratch with just a shell?

 

[JinM]

I think the basic problem is, that people allways build systems instead of hull or power first, and want to achieve a certain damage output or jump drive charge, or another purpose of the ship. Maybe a gun that has at least 20 blocks or something. And then they suddenly end up with stabilizer distances of 100m.

I think that's a problem.

And I can't even say that's a small one. Because no newb in Starmade builds the ship first, and then puts in the reactor afterwards, and then puts in the rest of the systems. It's allways exactly the other way around.

I don't know...let's see what will happen. This stabilizer outside of the ship mentality is very comprehensible for me.

With the new power, a small tutorial would be really helpful. Maybe I write a "how to get started in Starmade - your first 5 hours" guide. =)

 

[Adaxia]

StarMade v0.200.250 Prerelease News (Copied from the News Page)

How to use the new system


This systems makes ships work a lot differently. All ships made in the old power system, will not translate well into the new system. Simply swapping out the old power blocks with new ones does not make that ship functional again. Instead, we advise you to remove all power blocks, shields, thrusters and usables to start from a clean slate.

Ok so how many of you players that like to argue would like to tell me you enjoy the idea of having to take out all your systems and start from scratch with just a shell?

I've been doing that for awhile now. We used to only have one power block, one shield block, and two different weapons. Every time one of those systems was updated and changed, it was easier to just remove everything and redesign. This is the nature of a game in Alpha, things change. Until Beta, you shouldn't expect your ship designs to always carry over forever.

 

[DragonSoul9000]

i'm not worried about my new builds. i'm worried about a massive project for a Dragon Skeleton Shipyard that has been in the works for the better part of a year now and with the new power update I have to gut the systems and power to start over which from my understanding also meant the production facilities which includes one of each factory for each and every item that factory produces which means more than 500 factories in total hooked up to logic and took countless hours to set up.

 

[Ithirahad]

StarMade v0.200.250 Prerelease News (Copied from the News Page)

How to use the new system


This systems makes ships work a lot differently. All ships made in the old power system, will not translate well into the new system. Simply swapping out the old power blocks with new ones does not make that ship functional again. Instead, we advise you to remove all power blocks, shields, thrusters and usables to start from a clean slate.

Ok so how many of you players that like to argue would like to tell me you enjoy the idea of having to take out all your systems and start from scratch with just a shell?

Meh. I'm happy to gut everything and start fresh if a new system is an improvement. Even if not, this being alpha I fully expect to have to do that. I have several issues with this system, but that is not one of them.

 

[DragonSoul9000]

oh and lets think about this as well.
how many of the current ship's used by the Npc factions in the game have ship's that can easily be updated to the new power system?
this is basically adding more work for the Dev's to do because now they have to redesign the Npc Faction ships.
or they could have another Contest (but honestly those seem kinda trivial since you never know when your creation will be pulled out of the game due to changes like this).
Now just for you folks that think i'm trying to bash the Dev's. this is not my intent. they have been working had, but in my opinion they are overworked and underpaid and this just adds more work for then to have to sort out.

 

[Valiant70]

why anybody is even listening to RP players about game balance and PvP players about RP shit in the first place is beyond me

Many RPers are also PVPers. The difference is we care about how the ships look. (i.e. we don't build dumbbells or spaghetti)

 

[Zoolimar]

A simple ring around your ship with stabilizers works, and is something I did with jump drives way before this update because I think it looks cool. Cover it with black armor and it's hard to see, let alone hit. I'm sure if half the effort displayed here was put into designing around this new system, you guys could come up with something too.

This ring will blow up the moment even one of its blocks is hit. And it will do it pretty spectacularly. Because it has no integrity. Good luck eating up to 50k damage in multiple spots around your ring. At current settings you must have at least 2x2 strands for them not to blow up after receiving a scratch.

Like this. Spaghetti got a little fatter.

Additionally ring designs will have double the dimensions of stick like ships or eat the mass penalty for lesser stabilizer distance. Armouring them too will be pretty costly due to high surface area.

 

[NaStral]

I think a lot of servers, (LvD included) are going be keeping the old power system around as long as possible as well as find ways to counteract the stabilizer mechanic using whatever tools we have at out disposal. I'd really hate to have to push too far away from vanilla but I keep hearing the same thing over and over again from prominent players.

 

[Valiant70]

This ring will blow up the moment even one of its blocks is hit. And it will do it pretty spectacularly. Because it has no integrity. Good luck eating up to 50k damage in multiple spots around your ring. At current settings you must have at least 2x2 strands for them not to blow up after receiving a scratch.

Like this. Spaghetti got a little fatter.

Additionally ring designs will have double the dimensions of stick like ships or eat the mass penalty for lesser stabilizer distance. Armouring them too will be pretty costly due to high surface area.

Yeah, rings look cool, but they aren't practical in this meta. It'd be great if our meta actually promoted that sort of thing, but nope. Dumbbell, fat spaghetti, or go home.
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I think a lot of servers, (LvD included) are going be keeping the old power system around as long as possible as well as find ways to counteract the stabilizer mechanic using whatever tools we have at out disposal. I'd really hate to have to push too far away from vanilla but I keep hearing the same thing over and over again from prominent players.

You can sort of "turn them off" in configs. Reduce the minimum distance to zero.