Prerelease v0.200.250

[Edymnion]

The fact that we've only had 1 Schine member, Criss, who isn't even directly involved in balance, comment on this matter for a few short posts, is extremely concerning.

Well given how some people here act, I wouldn't want to be poking my head in either if I were them.

Its a VERY safe bet that they have read every single thread about it, and have listened to every last word that has been said about it.

If they choose to go with any of it or not is a different story, but to say they haven't seen it at all is just being silly.

 

[Matt_Bradock]

Lecic I know for one that Lancake is truly sorting the bugs out and I for one try everything I can to help out with that. THis is an alpha game, we are all playtesters so time to behave like playtesters and provide valuable feedback at least in addition to (preferably instead of) the complaints.

They are fully aware of the reception of the power update. They are also aware of quite some bugs with the pre-release, and probably don't speak up on the forums because they are hella busy (as they should be) tackling them and trying to tweak the stabilisers and the HP system. That said, if the next pre-release build will still be f***ed up, even I might lose my remaining patience. But I'll at least wait until then. I have no doubt that the current pre won't actually be released... that would be a pretty large nail in this game's coffin.

 

[kulbolen]

Welp, to be completely honest? Its because people abused docked entities to game breaking levels.

When Schine took less drastic measures to try and get the "Hey guys, this is bad, please don't do this" message across, they basically just flipped the bird and found a different way to do it.

So its like anything else in gaming. A minority ruined it for everybody else.

youre defending shit game design by saying its peoples fault for actually playing it.

I have an evil urge to try and make a non-docked shield / armor that is kept at a ship by clamps, that just hug it tightly. Sadly it probably will come out on the first sector change or even sooner.

yeah itll come out almost immediately, provide no value in protection, and probably cause a ton of lag lol

 

[Dire Venom]

youre defending shit game design by saying its peoples fault for actually playing it.

yeah itll come out almost immediately, provide no value in protection, and probably cause a ton of lag lol

I agree. If a system is so broken the devs have to ask players not to use docked entities..... that means the system, not the players needs to change.
It's like the devs solution to Spaghetti is "please don't do this". -_-

I fully belive the Devs will eventually get there, however it's frustrating seeing them wasting their own time and money on broken mechanics, where as even a bit of interaction with the community could have saved them weeks of development time.

Their whole "lurker" attitude doesn't help either. We have no ideas if they are about to fly or faceplant straight through the Earth, and it worries me.

 

[Jeryia]

I know many are angry about the new changes made to the game. Game design at the level that's happening here is very complicated. Expecially in games where the player is given lots of freedom like starmade. It's easy to overlook some detail in designing something like this, and sometimes you miss something big.

This is a pre-release off an alpha version of the game. The whole point of this stage of the game is to throw things out there and see how well they work. Sometimes the new deigns work great, other times not so much, but it's a guarantee that the more that's changed, the more likely some mechanic isn't going to work as desired. Problem is, when things go bad you can't just snap your fingers and make things better. It can take a tremendous amount of work.

I'm sure many of you are concerned that Schine is ignoring you or not taking your concerns seriously. Were that the case Schine inc would have made the pre-release a normal alpha release by now. Right now they're trying to think things through. They likely won't post something until they have thought things through and at least have an idea for a path forward. it's hard to brainstorm with a large audience, so they don't do that here. Everyone at Schine wants this game to be the best it can, just like I'm sure you all want.

If you really want to help, the best way you can do so is provide good detailed feedback, and there is a lot of it in this topic. If you post something that just says "This update sucks", the only thing you are telling the developer is "Don't make changes!". For the big picture try to tell them what you like as well as what you hate, it helps them see what you see. Oddly, that can be better information than giving a specific solution. Not because we programmers know better than you all, but because we can't implement everyone's idea. For the small picture, bug reports and bring up specific issues work best.

The purpose of this post is not to tell you all how to provide feedback. I have no control over that, nor would I want any. I'm just hoping to provide some understanding. Just by looking at how many posts there are here I can tell that there are a lot of people here that care about this game. I'm sure Schine appreciates all your dedication to making StarMade better.

 

[Crimson-Artist]

not sure if anyone has talked bout this yet but the latest dev build seems to have a new mechanic with reactors and stabilizers.
power regen doesnt change regardless of the stabilizer distance but theres a new stat called "stab. Integrity". Wonder what this could be?

 

[Ithirahad]

not sure if anyone has talked bout this yet but the latest dev build seems to have a new mechanic with reactors and stabilizers.
View attachment 46892 power regen doesnt change regardless of the stabilizer distance but theres a new stat called "stab. Integrity". Wonder what this could be?

I assume the stabilizer integrity is just the Structural Integrity value of the stabilizers... i.e. the much-needed anti-spaghetti mechanic applied to stabilizers (as it has been for maybe two builds now). With that strange new visual, though, and stabilization apparently not changing atm, something else may be going on... or, they're just testing shader application for what will later be the final visual effect for build mode.

I'll check this out.

 

[Crimson-Artist]

I assume the stabilizer integrity is just the Structural Integrity value of the stabilizers... i.e. the much-needed anti-spaghetti mechanic applied to stabilizers (as it has been for maybe two builds now).

the thing that interests me is the fact that the power regen doesnt increase when stabilization goes up. the max stabilization distance is still pretty large but now theres a logic tube thing that appears when a stabilizer is place down. wonder if this is the beginnings of schema's fix for power.

 

[Ithirahad]

There would appear to be a block called the 'Stabilizer Stream Node' now... let's see what it does! :D
[doublepost=1513656528,1513654261][/doublepost]Ok, it seems that by linking the nodes I can change the path of the stabilization 'energy', but it doesn't seem to be changing stabilization percentage at all. I assume something's not yet implemented, but I may just be doing something wrong. In any case, spooky witchcraft seems to be involved...

 

[Criss]

it doesn't seem to be changing stabilization percentage at all

I will explain it as best I can without knowing the exact specifics of the system. In short, players were concerned about islands of systems/power becoming too powerful. This beam connects reactors to stabilizers and can be redirected more manually with the nodes. This way a new player does not need to worry about it, but an experienced player can redirect it for aesthetic or tactical reasons.

If the beam gets hit, your power is disabled. Not sure the exact punishment, but power takes a hit of some sort. Regen stops momentarily or something. I could be wrong, I just can't remember what the exact effect was. Hopefully now though, players won't be able to get away with building un-connected islands of systems without the need to fill that space with actual structure.

Of course, if you see any issues with this, please discuss it here or on any upcoming news posts. I can't say for certain personally that this is a solution, but I'd like to know whether this alleviates any fears you guys have.

 

[Kelpaz]

I hope these beams are going to be more interesting than "shoot this to loose power"
We don't need another nerf mechanic, I hope this is this going to let us shorten stabilizer distances inside, maybe by zigzagging lines or something.

It would be better than just being a new kind of nerf.
We need some buffs to balance out the nerfs.

 

[Crashmaster]

Needles only then I guess, tallbois and widebois are out of the picture now.

 

[Non]

I will explain it as best I can without knowing the exact specifics of the system. In short, players were concerned about islands of systems/power becoming too powerful. This beam connects reactors to stabilizers and can be redirected more manually with the nodes. This way a new player does not need to worry about it, but an experienced player can redirect it for aesthetic or tactical reasons.

If the beam gets hit, your power is disabled. Not sure the exact punishment, but power takes a hit of some sort. Regen stops momentarily or something. I could be wrong, I just can't remember what the exact effect was. Hopefully now though, players won't be able to get away with building un-connected islands of systems without the need to fill that space with actual structure.

Of course, if you see any issues with this, please discuss it here or on any upcoming news posts. I can't say for certain personally that this is a solution, but I'd like to know whether this alleviates any fears you guys have.

As long as stabilizer distance is removed or reduced significantly with this (so that reactors and stabilizers don't have to be placed predictably, in which case it won't matter what route it takes if you know it has to go through the center of the ship) or if stabilizer distance were measured by the distance the beam travels, this might actually add a lot to ship building. Though I still want to allow multiple active reactors per ship and have chambers moved away from being dependent on reactor mass and reactor capacity to working like the current effect system, or being based on the size of the system they affect.

 

[Dire Venom]

Thank you Criss , we really appreciate that you took the time to help inform us!

The new mechanic certaintly looks intersting, and I like the funkey twist that's been added.
Definatly an improvement.

My intial thoughts:
-How close together can Stab/Reactors be placed together:?
E.g if the beam is short its unlikely to ever get hit.

Or would the beams need to travel a minimum distance based on the ammount of Stabs they're connected too:?
That would make more sense.

Seems like it could be intersting, we'd love to know more :3

Thank you for your time!
I hearby nominate Criss for the best dev award!

 

[dvdbot]

Got an error when running a dedicated server and joining, see:
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Bug - Pre-Release v0.200.251 - HP Triggers(Reactors) missing

 

[Matt_Bradock]

I will explain it as best I can without knowing the exact specifics of the system. In short, players were concerned about islands of systems/power becoming too powerful. This beam connects reactors to stabilizers and can be redirected more manually with the nodes. This way a new player does not need to worry about it, but an experienced player can redirect it for aesthetic or tactical reasons.

If the beam gets hit, your power is disabled. Not sure the exact punishment, but power takes a hit of some sort. Regen stops momentarily or something. I could be wrong, I just can't remember what the exact effect was. Hopefully now though, players won't be able to get away with building un-connected islands of systems without the need to fill that space with actual structure.

Of course, if you see any issues with this, please discuss it here or on any upcoming news posts. I can't say for certain personally that this is a solution, but I'd like to know whether this alleviates any fears you guys have.

So, how's Schema planning to make a hitbox for a non-physical (non-block) connection beam? Especially for beam-type weapons? They are already incapable of hitting non-physical entities (like missiles) so I'm really curious about that part. Also, why is this better than actual conduit block lines between the reactors and stabilisers calculation-wise?

 

[Lecic]

I will explain it as best I can without knowing the exact specifics of the system. In short, players were concerned about islands of systems/power becoming too powerful. This beam connects reactors to stabilizers and can be redirected more manually with the nodes. This way a new player does not need to worry about it, but an experienced player can redirect it for aesthetic or tactical reasons.

If the beam gets hit, your power is disabled. Not sure the exact punishment, but power takes a hit of some sort. Regen stops momentarily or something. I could be wrong, I just can't remember what the exact effect was. Hopefully now though, players won't be able to get away with building un-connected islands of systems without the need to fill that space with actual structure.

Of course, if you see any issues with this, please discuss it here or on any upcoming news posts. I can't say for certain personally that this is a solution, but I'd like to know whether this alleviates any fears you guys have.

The concern wasn't that islands were too powerful specifically... The concern was on how the empty space requirements of the stabilizer system would make people want to build islands and dumbbells to get around them, because people don't WANT to be forced to have useless open space in their ships.

How does this power line mechanic fix this problem?

I see stabilizer distances are acting weird in the new build but i don't know if that's intentional.

 

[MacThule]

youre defending shit game design by saying its peoples fault for actually playing it.

Attacking people who disagree with you by aggressively slinging profanity while putting words in their mouth - words that are nothing remotely near what was said or nor implied - is a petulant, childish attempt to silence dissenting opinions.

Can you not respond to even one part of what was actually said? Was it too reasonable to rage at?

 

[Nosajimiki]

ah, I see... So a longboi or island ship can make a strait line, but a shorter ship can zig-zag a line using nodes. I suspect the nodes and not the line will be the break points so if they get hit, your total line shortens, but this great. If you want to centralize your power and bury it in the middle of you ship without losing regen, you just zig-zag to your stabilizer, but at the risk of more weak points... this... might... work... might even make designing power systems fun.

 

[MacThule]

How does this power line mechanic fix this problem?

I see stabilizer distances are acting weird in the new build but i don't know if that's intentional.

I am very worried that it will get weirder before it gets better... Right now the development path seems to be quickly spiraling down into a byzantine, borderline-ptolemaic system of workarounds and compensations for a core mechanic that itself is simply not functioning the way it was projected to do at inception.

I wish they would at least look at other elements that could be used to affect build design instead of apparently trying to solve every problem the game ever has as part of one single mechanic. As in; let power just power other systems and do that well. Stop trying to use power to power other systems and also to correct the build meta... Also to balance offense and defense... Also to balance effect systems... Also to control sub-light & FTL travel... That's a good way make a system function poorly by trying to do too much with it and losing focus on making it perform its primary role effectively first and foremost.

The reactor complex is not the only mechanic that can be brought to bear here... though it may eventually become so if more sub-systems (effects & FTL so far) are integrated into becoming "reactor components" for no good reason that I can discern (the new GUI system, integration and simplification of effects and FTL could have occurred without them becoming "part of the reactor").