Power flow though docks...

[Jojomo]

I thought I understood the basics of power flow between entities, but I was wrong - turns out I'm clueless...

I have entity S ("Ship" for example) and entity T ("Turret" for example):
- S has a rail or turret docking point on it, and a large amount of power generation.
- T has a docker, no power generation, but a large amount of weapons/power capacitors/shields (or some other consumer of power).

I know power can't flow from T to S (from docker to rail), but I thought it flowed from S to T (rail to docker).

But when I test this in-game I find that T doesn't benefit from S's power generation at all, it stays at 1 e/s....what is going on? What am I misunderstanding?

 

[Mork2]

Power only fills the storage in the part that its on. Modules will attempt to use power from that part first. However parts connected to the ship that attempt to use more power than what is available on the part will attempt to draw that power further up the chain to the ship.

So the power regeneration on the ship will not fill the power storage on the turret, it will only fill the power storage on the ship. But the turret will draw power from the ship if it doesn't have enough power on itself to fire.

 

[Captain Tankman]

If you're refering to the stats in build mode, than yes, it stays at 1e/s because it does only account for the regen on the single entity and not the regen of the mother-entity.

 

[Edymnion]

Yes, the turret is still only generating 1e/sec, that doesn't change.

What happens is the turret tries to fire, and checks it's own energy first. If it doesn't have enough to fire, then it goes down to what it's docked to and pull energy from there.

 

[Jojomo]

Ah I see, thanks guys. It only works if the power consumer on T is completely incapable of working otherwise.

I guess this means only weapons can make this happen? Everything else will just settle for 1 e/s, because although it's slow it still works?

 

[Ezekial Alexander]

Ah I see, thanks guys. It only works if the power consumer on T is completely incapable of working otherwise.

I guess this means only weapons can make this happen? Everything else will just settle for 1 e/s, because although it's slow it still works?

I believed the shield rechargers drew from upstream...but now I'm not totally sure

 

[Az14el]

There's no "feeding up" per say, a reactor on an entity down the chain won't fill a capacitor on an entity up the chain.
However computers & power costing systems will drain power from its own capacitors first, then from every entity down the chain until it has enough to cover what its asking for, as long as something down the chain can pay for the shot with at least 30% power remaining, the weapon will keep on firing (AI will stop when the final entity has been dropped under 30% power, they will still happily drain it from anywhere above that to 0 in one shot if allowed to though in a weapon example)

 

[Jojomo]

There's no "feeding up" per say, a reactor on an entity down the chain won't fill a capacitor on an entity up the chain.
However computers & power costing systems will drain power from its own capacitors first, then from every entity down the chain until it has enough to cover what its asking for, as long as something down the chain can pay for the shot with at least 30% power remaining, the weapon will keep on firing (AI will stop when the final entity has been dropped under 30% power, they will still happily drain it from anywhere above that to 0 in one shot if allowed to though in a weapon example)

I think this is becoming a little clearer: stored power can be pulled up (? I mean from rail to docker), but power generation can't.

So consumers that need an instantaneous amount (weapons, anything else?) can benefit from downstream capacity (not generation) but consumers that consume over time (power capacitors, shield recharge, thrusters) always have "enough" (i.e. at least 1 e/s) generation to operate, even if incredibly slowly, and never benefit from anything downstream.

So am I right about which power consumers this applies to? Only weapons fall into the first category, everything else is in the second?

(Refering to both stored and rates of power as "power" is driving me crazy! )

 

[Az14el]

if you're going to add capacity to the parts they still need to be filled up so they'll need their own power generation, and also enough of it to generate their share of the weapons final power/sec requirements or the power failures will eventually reach the main ship and you lose the benefits.

Really it makes dps based weapons the most viable for boosting this way, but ultimately a 2m e/s turret is already getting pretty weighty.
A powered docking arm splitting up the weapons strain between some powered turrets attached to it could be of benefit, a gigantic missile launcher relying on hundreds of layers of docked powerlines won't work out quite so well, despite the amazing sounding maths (been attempted though!)

 

[philthy mcnasty]

There's no "feeding up" per say, a reactor on an entity down the chain won't fill a capacitor on an entity up the chain.
However computers & power costing systems will drain power from its own capacitors first, then from every entity down the chain until it has enough to cover what its asking for, as long as something down the chain can pay for the shot with at least 30% power remaining, the weapon will keep on firing (AI will stop when the final entity has been dropped under 30% power, they will still happily drain it from anywhere above that to 0 in one shot if allowed to though in a weapon example)

What determines the chain? is it how the entity is docked, or is it the size of the entity?

 

[Az14el]

down being layers towards the Mothership or Station holding it all

 

[TheGeek007]

I too have questions about such things.

Say for example, a turret barrel, a turret base, and a ship.

Example 1
Barrel has no power output, no power storage. Takes 100,000 power to fire
Base has power capacity of 50,000 and a recharge rate of 50,000 e/s
Ship has 20 mil capacity, 2 mil e/s recharge.

Does the barrel take 50k power from the base then the rest from the ship?

Example 2
Barrel takes 250k power to fire
Base has 250k capacity and 250k e/s recharge
Ship has 20 mil capacity

In this case, the barrel takes the power from the base, and not any from the ship?

 

[Az14el]

I too have questions about such things.

Does the barrel take 50k power from the base then the rest from the ship?

Effectively yes, visually though if you select that core it's just going to have motherships power + everything else below itself in chain + its own supply in "total capacity", important part is that its own reactors would only fill the 50k at any rate, so it would only ever pay half.

In this case, the barrel takes the power from the base, and not any from the ship?

It should™
Each part is likely going to need a bit of a buffer in cap & regen just for lag/bug insurance

 

[Edymnion]

Example 1
Barrel has no power output, no power storage. Takes 100,000 power to fire
Base has power capacity of 50,000 and a recharge rate of 50,000 e/s
Ship has 20 mil capacity, 2 mil e/s recharge.

Does the barrel take 50k power from the base then the rest from the ship?

It should, but it doesn't.

There is currently a bug where if the turret is partially powered it won't fire at all.

As of my current understanding, in this example the turret would check its power supplies and either go:
"Okay, I've got power!", drain that power, and realize it does not have enough energy to actually fire and nothing happens (bug).
or
Go "I don't have enough power for this shot" and go down the chain to the mother ship and pull the full 100k from the ship.

As of right now, you either want to have the turret be 100% self powered, or 0%. Anywhere in between and you risk hitting the bug that puts it in an endless loop of power failure.

Example 2
Barrel takes 250k power to fire
Base has 250k capacity and 250k e/s recharge
Ship has 20 mil capacity

In this case, the barrel takes the power from the base, and not any from the ship?

Correct, that turret is self sufficient, it can store enough power to fire the weapon, and it has enough recharge to refill its capacitors before the next shot. This turret can fire by itself forever, even if the main ship's power runs dry, or even if it is completely blown off the ship entirely it will keep firing.

 

[Jojomo]

I thought I'd revisit this thread, because I now have (I think!) a better understanding of power sharing between entities.

To summarise:

• Power (from reactors) cannot be shared between entities, in any direction.

The only semi-exception is that docked thrusters: they aren't limited to power from their own entity, but they are limited to power from just a single entity.​

• Stored energy (from capacitors) can be passed along one direction of the docking chain: rail to docker

 

[KiloZulu]

Weapons can draw power from anything above them in the docking chain heirarchy (ex.: turrets.)
Thrusters can draw power from the mother ship - the entity that everything is docked to, and that controls ship movement. They will not draw power from anything between themselves and the mother ship.
Those are the only two things that can draw power from anything other than their own personal power supply.

 

[ToddoftheYear]

Those are the only two things that can draw power from anything other than their own personal power supply.

No, they are not.

Just to name a few:
Shield Re-chargers
Jump Inhibitors
All Defensive Effects

 

[Jojomo]

Weapons can draw power from anything above them in the docking chain heirarchy (ex.: turrets.)
Thrusters can draw power from the mother ship - the entity that everything is docked to, and that controls ship movement. They will not draw power from anything between themselves and the mother ship.
Those are the only two things that can draw power from anything other than their own personal power supply.

Weapons don't draw power, they draw stored energy.

I mentioned the exception of thrusters already - they're limited to power from a single entity.
[doublepost=1482437893,1482437685][/doublepost]

No, they are not.

Just to name a few:
Shield Re-chargers
Jump Inhibitors
All Defensive Effects

I'm certainly ready and willing to be wrong, and corrected.

Could you please show us a screenshot of a (tiny, re-creatable in about 1 minute) experimental setup that shows shields drawing power from another entity? I haven't been able to recreate that.

 

[ToddoftheYear]

Could you please show us a screenshot of a (tiny, re-creatable in about 1 minute) experimental setup that shows shields drawing power from another entity? I haven't been able to recreate that.

 

[Spoolooni]

I believe I have been told that the AI is not smart enough to make partial energy withdraws, in order for a turret to not be sapping power from the main chassis it has to be absolutely optimize to draw power from its own resources to a hundred percent. In other words, the base has to fully not partially power the turret barrel or all goes to shit (being you might as well make it non self-sustained ).