Poll for FTL travel

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Make so the system has to charge when you have activated it and set the cordiances the larger the ship the more longer it takes for the warpdrive to active

 

[Jack Caos]

maybe you can only jump in empty or void sectors and then have to travel the rest of the way per sublight?
that would prevent you from spawning inside of objects and you still have a use for thos sublight engines

maybe somkind of jumpgate or jumpbacon system which makes an area in which you can jum even in a populated sector, IF your ship fits in the jumpbeacon area

 

[therimmer96]

maybe you can only jump in empty or void sectors and then have to travel the rest of the way per sublight?
that would prevent you from spawning inside of objects and you still have a use for thos sublight engines

maybe somkind of jumpgate or jumpbacon system which makes an area in which you can jum even in a populated sector, IF your ship fits in the jumpbeacon area

mmmm, jumpbacon, cooked on a grill powered by warp plasma

 

[Zeno9141]

maybe you can only jump in empty or void sectors and then have to travel the rest of the way per sublight?
that would prevent you from spawning inside of objects and you still have a use for thos sublight engines

maybe somkind of jumpgate or jumpbacon system which makes an area in which you can jum even in a populated sector, IF your ship fits in the jumpbeacon area

Problem is, there are nearly no completely empty sectors. There are always asteroids flying about.

 

[Jack Caos]

Problem is, there are nearly no completely empty sectors. There are always asteroids flying about.

maybe that would be the downside of to big ships...

one way to solve this could be a modification to the sector generation which prevents asteroids spawning to close to the middel a of a sector, but if your ship is to big to jump without colliding then you have a problem and anyblock which overlaps with a asteroid would simply explode.. or something like this.

mmmm, jumpbacon, cooked on a grill powered by warp plasma

damn now i am hungry were is my food beacon

 

[Zeno9141]

I would honestly prefer warpgates over warp drives, because ship FTL's can be abused easily, and are a pain to handle.

 

[ltmauve]

regardless, having a system where the rules can be customized to determine the viability of both gate and ship FTL means that we can determine our own systems.

 

[RedDragonflyxx]

There's been a lot of variation on a single idea thrown around, and that idea is ship-borne FTL/warp systems with sets of limitations and rules so as to not create negative play habits. Considering that I'm more of a fan of a simple and effective gate-based system of FTL, what's important about ship based FTL with a lot of limiters that warpgate based FTL without limiters doesn't provide?

Being able to travel to places where you don't have a jump gate...faster. I don't like the idea of being limited to warpgates only if I want to travel faster.

Have you ever watched BSG? They cannot move too far because their computers have to find a path to the other endpoint without hitting anything.

This isn't BSG, and I've seen a full 1/2 of a marathon.

I'd rather not have FTL be like cloaking, in that if you want to be able to use it, you need to make your ship ugly and made of power bricks.

Cloaking is the very extreme of what I'd like, more like... thrusters in difficulty to add, maybe a bit harder in capitals and fighters to make warpgates more useful for the rich/a source of revenue (Automatic toll warp)

Finally, an example of a voyage: You see an enemy coming at you in a giant ship so you charge up the FTL and get out of dodge, he doesn't get a hit in on your ship before the warp field is created so your drive doesn't fizzle (Millenium Falcon style) but the warp field takes some turret damage, damaging parts of your ship. Your ship has some decent jump equipment so you can go 6 (Too exact but a nice start) sectors with a 1 minute cooldown. Unfortunately your enemy has followed you (via FTL/sub-light) with his long range sensor array that adorns his ship/through the warp field before it collapsed, doing similar damage to his ship due to weapons fire. Again you fire up your drive and end up with longer cooldown/slightly frazzled drive or field. After 20 seconds on cooldown and two jumps, you have a 100 second cooldown left. As your cooldown/field stability worsens, your ship begins to become superficially damaged, soon you won't be able to warp at all and even worse, your foe is still chasing you down with infuriating ease. On your next jump, a stationary FTL jammer drops you out of warp, up ahead is a hostile base, fortunately for you your enemy didn't get to your warp field in time and ended up using his own FTL bypassing it with his faction's permission, as you were about to make a sub-light escape. The mistake was noticed when the base radar alerted him to your proximity to the base though and you ended up between a hostile base and a competent player, sealing your fate. In your next scout ship you place a great emphasis on FTL and end up with an effective scout with little offensive capability.

 

[gravypod]

This isn't BSG, and I've seen a full 1/2 of a marathon.

This is from season 2 episode 22.

 

[Killbot101]

i vote for beacon,so its easier and more accurate.that would also make it easier to keep track of bases/colonies. im tired of losing colonized planets.

 

[Fwyrl]

Being able to travel to places where you don't have a jump gate...faster. I don't like the idea of being limited to warpgates only if I want to travel faster.

The problem with this is that then people all scatter to the middle of nowhere, and the only player interaction is chat.

 

[Zeno9141]

Ship-based warp drives would be able to ruin any server in seconds. All they would have to do to corrupt 200+/- sectors, is aim in a random direction, and hit warp. Continue this a few times, and the server would collapse. This could be prevented by stationary gates.

 

[Lecic]

Ship-based warp drives would be able to ruin any server in seconds. All they would have to do to corrupt 200+/- sectors, is aim in a random direction, and hit warp. Continue this a few times, and the server would collapse. This could be prevented by stationary gates.

And why would this corrupt a server? It wouldn't be loading the sectors between the destination and the starting point, if that's the issue.

 

[Zeno9141]

And why would this corrupt a server? It wouldn't be loading the sectors between the destination and the starting point, if that's the issue.

You have a point.

But server corruption aside, I can imagine people scavenging out thousands of sectors. That would just be plain unbalanced. Giving players the ability to have ship-based warp drives might be insanely awesome and totally epic, but nobody would use normal travel anymore, or settle in the furthest districts possible. Building your own waypoints/warpgates would mean you have to travel to that location to be able to use it as checkpoint. Which means: very little possibilities to exploit the system. It would also mean more activity and -especially- warfare around said gates, either to gain control and charge toll, or simply because there are more players.

The problem we are facing, is that there is a fine line between the exploitable stuff, realism, and enjoying the game. If the factors that can be exploited are diminished first, you can gradually and cautiously walk your way to the other two.

 

[RedDragonflyxx]

You have a point.

But server corruption aside, I can imagine people scavenging out thousands of sectors. That would just be plain unbalanced. Giving players the ability to have ship-based warp drives might be insanely awesome and totally epic, but nobody would use normal travel anymore, or settle in the furthest districts possible. Building your own waypoints/warpgates would mean you have to travel to that location to be able to use it as checkpoint. Which means: very little possibilities to exploit the system. It would also mean more activity and -especially- warfare around said gates, either to gain control and charge toll, or simply because there are more players.

The problem we are facing, is that there is a fine line between the exploitable stuff, realism, and enjoying the game. If the factors that can be exploited are diminished first, you can gradually and cautiously walk your way to the other two.

You just have to make long ship based FTL difficult without making a ship for it. People should be able to scatter, but have incentive to stay together. After a while (since my last post) I realized that this is an alpha game with end-user customization, we think up ideas, the devs/server owners can balance them. Ship-based can get you there, but the drive takes time, space, energy, and credits and doesn't work as well as stations, which take labour, credits, and exploration. Keep it vague and give people the option of ship/station/both serverside.

PS: The lack of a both option scares me...
This is what must happen to the poll.

 

[Ithirahad]

Problem is, there are nearly no completely empty sectors. There are always asteroids flying about.

That can and will be fixed.

There's been a lot of variation on a single idea thrown around, and that idea is ship-borne FTL/warp systems with sets of limitations and rules so as to not create negative play habits. Considering that I'm more of a fan of a simple and effective gate-based system of FTL, what's important about ship based FTL with a lot of limiters that warpgate based FTL without limiters doesn't provide?

People want Star Wars/Star Trek-style warp, partially because, well, it's really cool-looking. I'd like to see it implemented, but be disabled by default. RP servers and other people who want it can have it, and Faction PvP servers can not have it if they feel that it'll ruin balance and make people hide away in remote corners of space.

I'd rather not have FTL be like cloaking, in that if you want to be able to use it, you need to make your ship ugly and made of power bricks.

I agree... TBH, Cloaking shouldn't require that either... Perhaps hull should be able to cloak (and warp?) 4 or 6 times more cheaply than other blocks.

 

[Blodge]

OK, I have an idea for FTL travel which I think is simple, scalable, intuitive and doesn't require bringing in lots of additional complex rules and limitations.

Essentially, it's the existing "teleport" feature that's currently available as a console command, but accessed via an FTL docking block (or Beacon) and controlled with a menu which lets you make a "Hyperspace jump" from one Beacon to another. The construction challenge takes the form of requiring both Ship and Beacon to meet certain criteria before a jump can be made. Please consider the following:

Theory
Travel through normal space: Requires Engines to move. Engines require power. The total amount of power expended in getting from Point A to Point B is affected by the mass of the object and the distance travelled.

Travel through Hyperspace: Requires Engines and power in exactly the same way travel through normal space does, i.e. you still need a fixed amount of power to get from Point A to Point B. However, because distances and times are relativistically compressed in Hyperspace (insert technobabble), the power expenditure (and therefore the journey time) is instantaneous. The main problem is navigation as it relies on abstract mathematical calculations to plot courses between observable Beacons.

Blocks Required
Hyperspace Computer - Allows a Ship or Base to view the Hyperspace Menu.
Hyperspace Computer Expander - Reduces the warm-up time on Hyperspace jumps.
Hyperspace Motivator - Allows a Ship to make a Hyperspace jump. Requires a constant supply of Power per-second to remain active (like the Cloaker/Radar Jammer).
Hyperspace Motivator Expander - Reduces the cool-down time on Hyperspace jumps. Increases the amount of Power per-second the Motivator requires to remain active.
Hyperspace Beacon - Provides docking areas which ships can instantaneously jump to. Requires a constant supply of Power per-second to remain active.
Hyperspace Beacon Expander - Increases size of the docking area, allowing ships with larger volumes to use the Beacon. Increases the amount of Power per-second the Beacon requires to remain active.

Mechanics
Any ship fitted with both a Hyperspace Computer and a Hyperspace Motivator can make a jump. However, you are only able to jump to locations containing a Beacon. The Hyperspace Menu shows you a list of all the Beacons you can reach based on the total power stored in your ship. Locations which require more Power to get to than both the ship and Beacon have stored, or have docking areas too small for your Ship, are greyed-out or simply not visible at all. Each Beacon allows only 1 ship at a time to be docked at it. Beacons which already have a ship docked appear in red and cannot be jumped to until they become empty and turn "green". If you are already docked at a Hyperspace Beacon before you make your jump, then any Power stored in the structure the Beacon is attached to will *add* to the total Power available for your Jump. Upon completing a jump, you appear docked at the destination Beacon and un-dock in the same way you would from a regular Docking Block.

Both Beacons and Motivators are visible on the Hyperspace navigation menu. Beacons are visible permanently, but Motivators are only visible during their warm-up/cool-down times. This allows for a jumping ship to be tracked via your own Hyperspace Computer for a limited period, making stealthy jumps somewhat challenging.

Balance
Instantaneous power expenditure means that the more Power you have stored in your Power Tanks, the longer the distance you can cover in a single jump. Otherwise, you're limited to lots of smaller jumps with added re-charge time in-between. So, to have a fast FTL ship (one that can make the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs) you need to be more concerned about the total number of Power Tanks you have, rather than your Power output per second. The amount of Power required to travel a certain distance in Hyperspace could be equal to or higher than the amount required to travel the same distance in normal space. Adjust accordingly if balance is required.

Adding the power stored in Beacon stations to a jump allows ships to travel further than normal and naturally creates transport hubs. It also allows very small ships to make use of the Beacon network for more "domestic" purposes, such as cargo transport.
A Station designed to be a mass-transit hub would require lots of Beacons, Beacon Expanders and Power Tanks to allow Ships of different sizes to use it and keep traffic flowing evenly.
A Station designed to be used only as a Navigation point within less-explored space would require very few Beacons (maybe only 1) and enough Expanders to allow ships of whatever size you imagine will require use of the facility. You would only need sufficient Power Generators to keep it all active as Ships can use their own power for the Jumps.

Making the whole FTL system rely on total Power storage means a jump can be inhibited or disrupted entirely by hitting a ship with enough Powerdrain Beams. This would encourage Players to build "tackling" ships aimed at crippling other vessels instead of damaging them. Also, if a ship's shields are getting hit by weapons fire, it keeps firing it's own weapons, or is thrusting using it's normal engines then the time taken for it's Power Tanks to re-charge sufficiently for a jump is extended. This is a much more natural way of disrupting jumping than adding artificial damage limits, or creating specific "anti-FTL" weapons etc.

Expanded or Optional Ideas
Jumping to Planets: Planets create a large enough gravity well to be detectable in Hyperspace. As such, your Hyperspace Computer is able to plot a course to them. The upside is; you don't have to have already made a journey to a Planet via normal space in order to jump to it. The downside is; you will appear inside the gravity well of the Planet, so better make sure you have enough thrust to escape on arrival.

Emergency Jumps: A lot of people in this thread seem to be surprisingly keen on the possibility of being annihilated the instant you use your shiny new FTL system. To satisfy this death-wish, I suggest you have an option in the Hyperspace Menu for an "Emergency Jump". You still have to have a Beacon/Planet targeted, but this option reduces the warm-up time to zero and jumps you to a random location within the sector of the target. If your Ship re-appears in any space which is already occupied by another object (Asteroid, Planet, your own Base etc.), then any overlapping blocks on both your Ship and the object suffer immediate, extremely high area-of-effect damage which ignores shielding.

My Personal Rant
I hear a lot of talk on here saying FTL would have to be nerfed (long cool-down times, prohibitively huge energy expense to make a jump etc.) in order for it to be balanced. I fail to see the logic in this as everyone constructing an FTL system will have the same constraints, so it's naturally balanced. Ultimately, all we really want from an FTL system is reduced journey time. The main argument seems to be "people will use it to escape before I can blow them up". Well, so what? People will try to escape using any means necessary. Why should we bring-in rules preventing people from building a faster ship? It's a bit like accusing Han Solo of cheating because he owns the fastest ship in the Galaxy. So long as you can track your opponent then there's nothing stopping you from building an even faster ship than theirs if you want to give chase. Or just stop the other ship from jumping at all by hitting it with enough Powerdrain Beams. This game should be about presenting challenges which encourage creativity gameplay, not imposing artificial limits because a few players are complaining they came last in a race.

 

[Lecic]

I do like Blodge 's suggestion, but I would prefer warp gates over jump beacons. Gates would probably look cooler, just a personal opinion. They still make it so people need to explore before FTLing around everywhere, but would probably not have a limit on range like beacons. However, they would only work between two gates (or need "redialing" to another gate from an operator on the gate). Gates would allow for cool traps like tricking a large enemy through a large entrance portal with a small exit, causing catastrophic damage on exit.

 

[Blodge]

They still make it so people need to explore before FTLing around everywhere, but would probably not have a limit on range like beacons. However, they would only work between two gates (or need "redialing" to another gate from an operator on the gate). Gates would allow for cool traps like tricking a large enemy through a large entrance portal with a small exit, causing catastrophic damage on exit.

Limiting travel between two gates means Sectors designed to be transport hubs would need to be filled with lots of paired Gate entrances to allow travel to multiple locations. Space around your Bases could get very crowded and may need some kind of Space-traffic Control authority to label the destinations of the Gates and keep ships from getting in each other's way. You could have an Operator to change the pairing of the Gates, but I'm not sure I like that idea as it would mean a lot of faffing-about getting in and out of your ship in a Solo game, or make a very boring job for one Player on a Multiplayer server. It also doesn't make sense to me that you'd deliberately build a transport system that could destroy your ship through casual use and without warning.
However, I do like the ease of access that comes with a Gate that can be flown into and out of without having to worry about navigation or warm-up times. Perhaps this idea could be implemented in the form of naturally occurring Wormholes? They could spawn temporarily with random start and end points, and have different sized openings at either end. That way, unless you chart the Wormhole first, you're taking a plausible risk of being squeezed out of a hole that was smaller than the one you entered.

I do like Blodge 's suggestion, but I would prefer warp gates over jump beacons. Gates would probably look cooler, just a personal opinion.

You can build any shape of structure you want around the docking area of the Beacon. In fact, I'd recommend this for both FTL and normal docking areas to give an immediate visual indication of the size of Ship that can use it. You can still make a Beacon look like the Stargate if you want

 

[ltmauve]

Hyperspace Motivator - Allows a Ship to make a Hyperspace jump. Requires a constant supply of Power per-second to remain active (like the Cloaker/Radar Jammer).
Hyperspace Motivator Expander - Reduces the cool-down time on Hyperspace jumps. Increases the amount of Power per-second the Motivator requires to remain active.

Wait, energy usage per second? Isn't the jump instantaneous? Shouldn't there be no intrinsic cooldown, only something regulated by the power demands required?
Instead, the expander creates a pool of FTL-only energy that gets charged after the main ship power is full. The expander energy pool expands at or below a linear amount with the block count, unlike the existing power tanks, which expand above a linear amount. It would be used on small ships to increase FTL range.