Read by Schine Mobile Shipyards (shipyards on ships)

[kiddan]

But why would you do that? What's wrong with being able to have a ship mounted shipyard? Like.... we've been able to spawn ships everywhere since the game existed, idk why it would be so bad.

Because having the ship not moving would reduce bugginess and systems shutting down would make space stations have an upside. It does sounds kinda over de-buffed though, I did write it early in the morning.

 

[Blaza612]

I agree with the fact that there isn't any reason to prevent people from being nomads, but I also agree that there needs to be some sort of incentive to build a station. Rather than debuff ships, why not buff stations? Make them more efficient at doing pretty much everything, maybe add some other small features which stations can use, but don't affect the game so significantly to cause balance problems with the ships and stations, that way people can be nomads, while still having an incentive to want to build a home.

The idea of having a home itself would be enough of an incentive for making stations, as stations are a permanent home. There are those that are nomads, and those that're hermits. Maybe we should test this out with a small update, that changes the default for whether station blocks can go onto ships, and see how people react, that way, if there is too many people going nomadic, then make the efficiency, and do a quick update. Bench you can't pass up a little bit of good ol' science can you? :P

 

[Bench]

Bench you can't pass up a little bit of good ol' science can you? :p

Alpha is Alpha, we'll see what happens. Just gotta trust that we have a plan, we don't want you not to enjoy playing so if there's stuff we're holding out on making decisions on, it's usually because it has to integrate with like a dozen other things planned. In this case Capital Ships need a bit more drafting up so we can see the pros and cons for the gameplay progression from ship -> station -> capital ship.

 

[Blaza612]

Alpha is Alpha, we'll see what happens. Just gotta trust that we have a plan, we don't want you not to enjoy playing so if there's stuff we're holding out on making decisions on, it's usually because it has to integrate with like a dozen other things planned. In this case Capital Ships need a bit more drafting up so we can see the pros and cons for the gameplay progression from ship -> station -> capital ship.

The problem is that many people don't want to go to station and then to capital ships, they want to be nomadic. That's obviously not representitive of everyone, but doing the test will be good if you want to find out how many people which to be nomads. There is demand to not have to use stations, the best thing to do would be to see how the community reacts to being able to not have to use stations entirely. You could have the update out for a week, get some feedback, and come up with an appropriate conclusion from said feedback. Simple. :P

 

[vernes]

The problem is that many people don't want to go to station and then to capital ships, they want to be nomadic.

But what if the station thing is the bootstrap for going capital ship?
It's the 'thing tm' you need to dig through before getting to the sweet nomadic chocolate centre.
After you have your capital ship, you can disassemble your station and never look back.

 

[max stripe]

The problem is that many people don't want to go to station and then to capital ships, they want to be nomadic. That's obviously not representitive of everyone, but doing the test will be good if you want to find out how many people which to be nomads. There is demand to not have to use stations, the best thing to do would be to see how the community reacts to being able to not have to use stations entirely. You could have the update out for a week, get some feedback, and come up with an appropriate conclusion from said feedback. Simple. :p

i can already manage being nomadic its just a little harder..
i use a station for one thing... holding an area for me to mine out if i get b0red otherwise i dont do mining
kill and use the loot to build bigger using BPs
no need to bother with a shipyard or station in anyway

 

[DraconisDomini]

If we had NPC shipyards that one could take materials to and pay a fee (either in credits or materials) to use then shipyards on ships would not be necessary in order to be a nomad. Want to build a new ship with all the materials you've collected? Just pop down to your local Trade Guild shipyard.

Capital ships might still want 'shipyard' capability in order to replenish drones, etc, but I don't see a great problem there. I would just limit shipborne 'shipyards' to some (reasonably small) fraction of the mass of the host vessel, maybe even call it a 'droneyard' rather than a 'shipyard'. Most station shipyards are the sort of very skeletal structures that I'm sure are often significantly less massive than the ships they are working on. Limit the 'shipyard' to even 10% of the mass of the host and immediately it is a rather different prospect.

 

[alterintel]

I would just limit shipborne 'shipyards' to some (reasonably small) fraction of the mass of the host vessel

Good Idea

 

[Parameter]

I could also see one big benefit of stations vs. ships: availability of power & materials.

A space station is normally much larger than a ship (deathstar & the like excluded, of course). A space station should be able have significantly powerful/more efficient power generation because it doesn't have to move it. I think right now, though, space stations have the same power softcap as ships, so there's no power generation benefit to stations. If stations could more efficiently build large power sources, then"station" modules and structures could cost more energy, and be naturally more at home on stations than ships. A ship could still have something like a shipyard, but it would have to be engineered from the ground up to be able to handle it's station-sized resource appetite. This would make portable shipyards harder to make and limited in size by ship resources.

You could still make a death star with a shipyard if you sank enough resources into it. Maybe you end up with large power banks you have to charge for a little while before building a ship. I don't see that as much more different than charging up the death star's main laser.

One other thing that could impose natural limits on ships with shipyards is more realistic cargo. If you had to devote ship blocks to cargo storage, or if materials stored on-ship added to its mass, raw materials would limit shipbuilding. You could easily carry enough supplies to make some drones, but carrying enough materials to mass-produce cruisers, even on a titan, would require extensive planning and logistics work.

A station should be the optimal way to use capital structures like shipyards. It would be nice, however, if things like mobile shipyards were left open as a possibility and not outlawed by fiat. Players should be able to engineer solutions to in-game problems and reap the rewards of good planning and system optimization.

(especially when that means sexy mobile manufacturing complexes!)

 

[Blaza612]

But what if the station thing is the bootstrap for going capital ship?
It's the 'thing tm' you need to dig through before getting to the sweet nomadic chocolate centre.
After you have your capital ship, you can disassemble your station and never look back.

But those who want to be nomadic don't wont to have to waste time on the station entirely. I want to build onto my ship, and my ship only. I don't want to have to land at a planet, or create a station, I just want to continue building off of my ship. For people who wish to play as nomads, the best progression would be progressing AS a nomad, rather than progressing TOWARDS being a nomad.

 

[vernes]

But those who want to be nomadic don't wont to have to waste time on the station entirely. I want to build onto my ship, and my ship only. I don't want to have to land at a planet, or create a station, I just want to continue building off of my ship. For people who wish to play as nomads, the best progression would be progressing AS a nomad, rather than progressing TOWARDS being a nomad.

But it's a CAPITAL ship, imagine an episode of Star Trek where they fly around in a roundabout with a partially finished 'Enterprise' attached to their rear.
"Yeah we got lost in this tiny ship but we'd figure we'd just build a larger ship that will be able to get us home faster, we're just flying around to collect resources to finish it"
Or, what I think you might be aiming at, attaching technology to the roundabout until it's the size of a capital ship.
Which comes over to me as this

But in the end it's simple, devs wont add capital ships with station-like abilities as-is.
I like capital ships, either for shipyarding or warpgates or whatever they add to the game, so I'm trying to think of balanced ways to make capital ships fit and be balanced according to the devs.
If you're saying "my way or no capital ships", then you're not helping at all and might actively blocking capital ships.

 

[Blaza612]

But it's a CAPITAL ship, imagine an episode of Star Trek where they fly around in a roundabout with a partially finished 'Enterprise' attached to their rear.
"Yeah we got lost in this tiny ship but we'd figure we'd just build a larger ship that will be able to get us home faster, we're just flying around to collect resources to finish it"
Or, what I think you might be aiming at, attaching technology to the roundabout until it's the size of a capital ship.
Which comes over to me as this

But in the end it's simple, devs wont add capital ships with station-like abilities as-is.
I like capital ships, either for shipyarding or warpgates or whatever they add to the game, so I'm trying to think of balanced ways to make capital ships fit and be balanced according to the devs.
If you're saying "my way or no capital ships", then you're not helping at all and might actively blocking capital ships.

What I'm trying to say is that I want to get to a capital ship without the need of a station. :P

 

[vernes]

What I'm trying to say is that I want to get to a capital ship without the need of a station. :p

Since a capital ship is kinda like a station, we could ask to add derelict capital ships.
Just like a station, you have to claim it with a stationcore and pay the repair cost to remove the derelict status.
Then you have to fix the missing parts.

There, this is what I mean with 'helping', add something to the discussion besides just an opinion.
We have plenty of opinions, 224,258 opinions to be exact.
Idea's or solutions is what we need.

 

[Blaza612]

Since a capital ship is kinda like a station, we could ask to add derelict capital ships.
Just like a station, you have to claim it with a stationcore and pay the repair cost to remove the derelict status.
Then you have to fix the missing parts.

There, this is what I mean with 'helping', add something to the discussion besides just an opinion.
We have plenty of opinions, 224,258 opinions to be exact.
Idea's or solutions is what we need.

I provided the idea of running a test to see how people would react to not needing a station, as that would provide Schine with the statistics needed as to whether they should remove stations from the ultimate tiering system thingy.

What I want to do, as I've stated before, is continue building off of a ship, mining and manufacturing endlessly to the point of a massive capital ship, since if capital ships were to be implemented, it would be stupid to have them created with a separate core, it should be a matter of your ship gets to a size (could be based off of either mass or dimensions, probably mass) then it's declared a capital ship, and can be used as one.

And again, I don't want to have everything that's station only to be on capital ships, I want stations to still be more efficient in order to provide an incentive to use stations. I would prefer that everything from stations added to ships, but in their own unique way that makes them less efficient but provides players with a new experience to compensate.

Respawning for example could use the clone system I proposed a while back, where you have to make and store clones, and then you can respawn to them, allowing ship respawning, but requires resources, space and time to do. Stations could stay with the undeathinator, making stations the superior respawning system.

Shops don't really need much of a buff/debuff as there's not much that can really be changed too significantly, what could be a possibility is that station shop modules have a significantly greater storage space than ships, or you'd have to use your cargo space for the entirety of the shop space.

Factories, I'm not sure what to change to make them superior other than making station factories faster.

 

[vernes]

I provided the idea of running a test to see how people would react to not needing a station, as that would provide Schine with the statistics needed as to whether they should remove stations from the ultimate tiering system thingy.

Ah yeah, you did mention that.

For the rest of your post, the current system has to assign a concrete entity type to allow certain functions to be added to your craft.
Allowing a shipyard to function on a ship based on its mass is not possible (afaik).
The ship has to be assigned a different type to become a 'moving station' or 'capital ship'.
Currently you'll have to make a new ship with a predetermined entity type.
Being able to mess around with the core cube is an entire new feature suggestion and opens up a completely new discussion.

 

[Blaza612]

Ah yeah, you did mention that.

For the rest of your post, the current system has to assign a concrete entity type to allow certain functions to be added to your craft.
Allowing a shipyard to function on a ship based on its mass is not possible (afaik).
The ship has to be assigned a different type to become a 'moving station' or 'capital ship'.
Currently you'll have to make a new ship with a predetermined entity type.
Being able to mess around with the core cube is an entire new feature suggestion and opens up a completely new discussion.

When it comes to messing with the ship core, how about when your ship gets to a certain mass, you can choose to 'upgrade' the core to a capital core (maybe through a menu of some sort) with it costing some resources, maybe some ores or maybe some credits.

Bench how exactly is the capital ship system going to work? Since there's no info on the roadmap, and you haven't exactly told us what it's going to consist of. :P

 

[vernes]

When it comes to messing with the ship core, how about when your ship gets to a certain mass, you can choose to 'upgrade' the core to a capital core (maybe through a menu of some sort) with it costing some resources, maybe some ores or maybe some credits.

It sounds nice, but that's the fronend of the feature. In the backend, in the gamecode they would add the feature that you can change the entitytype/core-type of an entity (in this case, your ship).
But once they add this, it seems to me a tiny step to add this to stations as well.
and changing a station to a ship, or back again, opens a whole new realm of possibilities and balancing issues.

 

[Blaza612]

It sounds nice, but that's the fronend of the feature. In the backend, in the gamecode they would add the feature that you can change the entitytype/core-type of an entity (in this case, your ship).
But once they add this, it seems to me a tiny step to add this to stations as well.
and changing a station to a ship, or back again, opens a whole new realm of possibilities and balancing issues.

But at the moment there are two types of entities, stations and ships. What makes them different? One can't move, it's bound to the universal grid that every station is set to. Ships have there own independent grid that can rotate in a variety of directions, the core allows us to determine whether something is bound to the universal grid, or its own grid, thus a ship cannot become a station.

 

[Bench]

Bench how exactly is the capital ship system going to work? Since there's no info on the roadmap, and you haven't exactly told us what it's going to consist of. :p

Yet to be detailed, so patience with that one as it requires a bunch of other features to be fully thought out first

 

[vernes]

Yet to be detailed, so patience with that one as it requires a bunch of other features to be fully thought out first

Patience?
You take us for reasonable people!?
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