Read by Schine Mobile Shipyards (shipyards on ships)

[Matt_Bradock]

Thi

What if rather than killing acceleration, jumpdrives, or things like that on Capital ships, instead shipyard and factory blocks worked like a reverse overdrive block, slowly killing the ship's maximum speed down to something like 25% of original? This could be countered with overdrive, so the maximum possible speed for a massive factory ship would be 2.25x server max, rather than 4.5x like all the other ships.

Of course, numbers for that could be adjusted, as could the rate at which additional factory/shipyard blocks decrease the max speed, to whatever makes sense for balance.
If the numbers where set so that you didn't reach maximum speed reduction until there were the amount of factories and docks you might find on a 3-4 million block ship, I think the max speed penalty could go down to 12%. With that number, your average capital ship with a few factories and a small shipyard would still experience a penalty, but it would be a very minor one.

Another solution would be to make factories and shipyard blocks very heavy, thus naturally making it harder to accelerate quickly, and require more thrusters to get to max speed.

This actually resembles the mobile bases concept, huge ships that could have some of the station systems, like factories, shop module and shipyard, but (although really damn slowly) still be able to move in normal space and use a jump drive (but couldn't have homebase protection or warp gates)
I think even Schine used to have a concept like that called capital ships.

 

[Waterphoenix]

Ok so this is actually a good idea and i totally agree, but not without some vital balancing. The way I see it, there are two problems that will have to be taken into consideration:

1. Immunity
So basically what this is about is where someone can dock a ship into a shipyard and it will be constantly repaired, making it essentially an invulnerable turret. I propose there is a system along the lines of - Once a ship is docked in the shipyard, all systems are offline until the carrier ship is out of combat - including undocking. So if the carrier gets attacked, the docked ships cannot assist the battle until, say, 30 seconds after the mothership has neither taken nor fired a shot.

2. Making homebases pointless
So this is quite an issue. Having mobile shipyards would definately lead to homebases becoming pointless, and that's nky what we want. To combat this, I say we make the mobile shipyards incredibly resource intensive. Make them use more materials than static ones, but more importantly, make them use a LOT more power. This means mobile shipyards will have to be massive to accommodate for the power requirements, with all that space taken up by power generation, leaving less space for the shipyards, meaning that it will have to carry fewer, smaller ships and making it a bigger target. ( [Just a thought] perhaps mobile shipyards should be a different, more expensive block? This will stop people gaining access to the early-game and never building a homebase.)Also, homeland protection should also only be available for static bases, meaning these mobile ones are able to be shot down - this makes people prefer using homebases to hold their ships to remove the risk.

Mobile shipyards should be an end-game achievement, and by the time someone has managed to get the resources and time to build one of these, they will hve a very built-up homebase anyway which they will undoubtably be fond of and not want to lose.

I'd love to hear what you guys think about this c:

Edit: sorry i say 'so' a lot, i'm not the best at writing :3

 

[Matt_Bradock]

Ok so this is actually a good idea and i totally agree, but not without some vital balancing. The way I see it, there are two problems that will have to be taken into consideration:

1. Immunity
So basically what this is about is where someone can dock a ship into a shipyard and it will be constantly repaired, making it essentially an invulnerable turret. I propose there is a system along the lines of - Once a ship is docked in the shipyard, all systems are offline until the carrier ship is out of combat - including undocking. So if the carrier gets attacked, the docked ships cannot assist the battle until, say, 30 seconds after the mothership has neither taken nor fired a shot.

2. Making homebases pointless
So this is quite an issue. Having mobile shipyards would definately lead to homebases becoming pointless, and that's nky what we want. To combat this, I say we make the mobile shipyards incredibly resource intensive. Make them use more materials than static ones, but more importantly, make them use a LOT more power. This means mobile shipyards will have to be massive to accommodate for the power requirements, with all that space taken up by power generation, leaving less space for the shipyards, meaning that it will have to carry fewer, smaller ships and making it a bigger target. ( [Just a thought] perhaps mobile shipyards should be a different, more expensive block? This will stop people gaining access to the early-game and never building a homebase.)Also, homeland protection should also only be available for static bases, meaning these mobile ones are able to be shot down - this makes people prefer using homebases to hold their ships to remove the risk.

Mobile shipyards should be an end-game achievement, and by the time someone has managed to get the resources and time to build one of these, they will hve a very built-up homebase anyway which they will undoubtably be fond of and not want to lose.

I'd love to hear what you guys think about this c:

Edit: sorry i say 'so' a lot, i'm not the best at writing :3

Homebases would still be the only invulnerable locations, thus, the only safe place to store your stuff when you're offline.

You still can't claim a system using a ship, so unless you set up even a temporary outpost, you can't have the mining bonus either.

Shipyards don't automatically and instantly repair; you need to manually activate the shipyard computer and place an order. AI is also disabled when you repair a ship, because block metadata, such as logic state, storage auto-pulls, AI settings and display block text, do not carry over, only if you spawn from blueprint, not at a shipyard. (dunno if this'll ever be fixed, but I hope so)

But if you want to be sure about it, being docked to a shipyard could (and should) disable weapon systems, to ensure no one can abuse the repair feature.

 

[Blaza612]

I'll just leave this here;

Capital Ships and Motherships

We kind of moved on from just shipyards on ships, to the complete Capitals and Motherships. :p
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1. Immunity
So basically what this is about is where someone can dock a ship into a shipyard and it will be constantly repaired, making it essentially an invulnerable turret. I propose there is a system along the lines of - Once a ship is docked in the shipyard, all systems are offline until the carrier ship is out of combat - including undocking. So if the carrier gets attacked, the docked ships cannot assist the battle until, say, 30 seconds after the mothership has neither taken nor fired a shot.

No, just simply no. There is no reason docked ships/turrets on a mobile shipyard should be almost invulnerable, and will just cause more problems in the long run.

2. Making homebases pointless
So this is quite an issue. Having mobile shipyards would definately lead to homebases becoming pointless, and that's nky what we want. To combat this, I say we make the mobile shipyards incredibly resource intensive. Make them use more materials than static ones, but more importantly, make them use a LOT more power. This means mobile shipyards will have to be massive to accommodate for the power requirements, with all that space taken up by power generation, leaving less space for the shipyards, meaning that it will have to carry fewer, smaller ships and making it a bigger target. ( [Just a thought] perhaps mobile shipyards should be a different, more expensive block? This will stop people gaining access to the early-game and never building a homebase.)Also, homeland protection should also only be available for static bases, meaning these mobile ones are able to be shot down - this makes people prefer using homebases to hold their ships to remove the risk.

Making homebases useless, in a way, is kind of good, however only for the short term. In the long run, them being useless wont have as much as an effect, as Schine is moving away from homebases, and are going to be implementing more stuff that revolves around building an empire with NPCs, thus more stations/colonies will be required to be built. And since mobile shipyards (if not Motherships from my shameless plug :p) will not replace Homebases, which are already going to be nerfed in coming updates.

 

[Waterphoenix]

I'll just leave this here;

Capital Ships and Motherships

We kind of moved on from just shipyards on ships, to the complete Capitals and Motherships. :p
[DOUBLEPOST=1453856353,1453856016][/DOUBLEPOST]

No, just simply no. There is no reason docked ships/turrets on a mobile shipyard should be almost invulnerable, and will just cause more problems in the long run.



Making homebases useless, in a way, is kind of good, however only for the short term. In the long run, them being useless wont have as much as an effect, as Schine is moving away from homebases, and are going to be implementing more stuff that revolves around building an empire with NPCs, thus more stations/colonies will be required to be built. And since mobile shipyards (if not Motherships from my shameless plug :p) will not replace Homebases, which are already going to be nerfed in coming updates.

Js, i meant that the immunity is an issue, i was suggesting a way to fix it. Also, if schine is moving away from homebases... well, sadface :c
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Homebases would still be the only invulnerable locations, thus, the only safe place to store your stuff when you're offline.

You still can't claim a system using a ship, so unless you set up even a temporary outpost, you can't have the mining bonus either.

Shipyards don't automatically and instantly repair; you need to manually activate the shipyard computer and place an order. AI is also disabled when you repair a ship, because block metadata, such as logic state, storage auto-pulls, AI settings and display block text, do not carry over, only if you spawn from blueprint, not at a shipyard. (dunno if this'll ever be fixed, but I hope so)

But if you want to be sure about it, being docked to a shipyard could (and should) disable weapon systems, to ensure no one can abuse the repair feature.

Ok cool that's all good. I think on a ship though there should kind of undocking cooldown when in combat, which isn't there on homebases, just so people can't spam fix their fighters and frigates mid-battle and then fly them off into combat

 

[Blaza612]

well, sadface :c

Turn that sadface upside down BOI, it's to improve the game and PvP.

The Homebase provides factions with a place where EVERYTHING is invulnerable, and there's no reason to make other stations. People will simply focus on the one Homebase, so that they can't lose anything, this destroys most chances of factional warfare, as there's nothing to really destroy. I've posted a suggestion to remove said protection, but we ran into the problem that there is already a way to lose invulnerability via lack of faction points, it's just a balancing matter to allow people to lose said factions points much easier, primarily from being attacked. The way Schine will move away from Homebases, while we haven't got any specifics, we believe that they're going to be implementing the requirement of more than one station in order to provide the necessary upkeep for your faction, and will become more like empire building with lots of NPCs running around.

However, while Schine may be moving away from Homebases, for small factions (1 - 3 members) I proposed the idea of Motherships to be a Homebased Capital Ship, which I detail in the link I posted above, the Capital Ships and Motherships thread. Hopefully this gives you a better understanding as to why Homebases tend to be a bit of a detriment.

 

[Benevolent27]

Part of the concern is that placing space station services onto a ship means the entire game can be played without owning a permanent base. Space stations should be a more efficient place to use factories, claim territory, and build ships. If shipyards, among other systems, are placed onto a ship there needs to be a balancing factor which is why they are not in yet.

How about limiting the size of a mobile shipyard to be 50 by 50 by 50? This way carriers are possible, but people would still want to build bases to have larger shipyards. (I don't know about you, but my shipyards are usually 800x500x800 or so on my base, or larger. I think building a carrier ship would be a lot of fun though.

Edit: If even more balancing would be necessary, then also impose a weight limit. And have the size and weight limit customizeable by server admins. Also allow admins to turn off mobile shipyards. For congruity across servers, allow the shipyard blocks to be ON a ship, regardless of whether it will work or not, and display an error "Shipyard not functional on ship" if disabled on the server.

Edit 2: Another hybrid option that would encourage the usage of bases would be to make shipyards on ships only work when docked to a station. "Shipyard not stable enough for operation" Or perhaps be limited to the smaller size when not docked. If a player tries to load a larger design, it will give the error, "Shipyard design too large to be loaded during transit," but when docked to a station, it would work fine.

 

[Waterphoenix]

Turn that sadface upside down BOI, it's to improve the game and PvP.

The Homebase provides factions with a place where EVERYTHING is invulnerable, and there's no reason to make other stations. People will simply focus on the one Homebase, so that they can't lose anything, this destroys most chances of factional warfare, as there's nothing to really destroy. I've posted a suggestion to remove said protection, but we ran into the problem that there is already a way to lose invulnerability via lack of faction points, it's just a balancing matter to allow people to lose said factions points much easier, primarily from being attacked. The way Schine will move away from Homebases, while we haven't got any specifics, we believe that they're going to be implementing the requirement of more than one station in order to provide the necessary upkeep for your faction, and will become more like empire building with lots of NPCs running around.

However, while Schine may be moving away from Homebases, for small factions (1 - 3 members) I proposed the idea of Motherships to be a Homebased Capital Ship, which I detail in the link I posted above, the Capital Ships and Motherships thread. Hopefully this gives you a better understanding as to why Homebases tend to be a bit of a detriment.

Ok the whole space empire thing sounds pretty cool, i just think there should be a safe place for everyone. It sucks when you've just started a faction with your friends and your whole base gets obliterated by an end game boss in a titan. Hopefully they keep the homebase protection in future

 

[Blaza612]

Ok the whole space empire thing sounds pretty cool, i just think there should be a safe place for everyone. It sucks when you've just started a faction with your friends and your whole base gets obliterated by an end game boss in a titan. Hopefully they keep the homebase protection in future

I did cover this in my suggestion about removing invulnerability, with a 24 hour ONLINE (non-consecutive) safety timer, where no one can do any damage to your faction after you've been online for 24 hours, however you could only do damage to pirates and player owned stuff in your own territory.

The thing is, with regards to the Super Titans, they will be balanced out as the economy is implemented over time. They're a product of a broken economy, and Schine is fixing it so that players will not have such an obscene amount of resources, and will require other interaction with other players, such as trade, or wars with not titans but rather AI controlled fleets of smaller ships. Thus, there will be actual progression to Titans, and will involve the building of empires, rather than just BPing it in within the first few hours.

Here's the Starmade Development Roadmap if you want to see a bunch of the stuff that the devs will be implementing it, however, neither Bench or Criss have updated it (I think they're the ones in charge of it), so any other planned features that they've locked in recently aren't up there, but have been confirmed in talking to other people in the community 'n' shit.

 

[Waterphoenix]

I did cover this in my suggestion about removing invulnerability, with a 24 hour ONLINE (non-consecutive) safety timer, where no one can do any damage to your faction after you've been online for 24 hours, however you could only do damage to pirates and player owned stuff in your own territory.

The thing is, with regards to the Super Titans, they will be balanced out as the economy is implemented over time. They're a product of a broken economy, and Schine is fixing it so that players will not have such an obscene amount of resources, and will require other interaction with other players, such as trade, or wars with not titans but rather AI controlled fleets of smaller ships. Thus, there will be actual progression to Titans, and will involve the building of empires, rather than just BPing it in within the first few hours.

Here's the Starmade Development Roadmap if you want to see a bunch of the stuff that the devs will be implementing it, however, neither Bench or Criss have updated it (I think they're the ones in charge of it), so any other planned features that they've locked in recently aren't up there, but have been confirmed in talking to other people in the community 'n' shit.

Oh nice I've been looking for that link for ages
I still think that there should be a safe place for everyone to stay though...

 

[Wolverines527]

I would like to put my two cents on this for limitations

Make the costs out weigh the benifits if the shipyards or factory block isnt used for its designed purpose say a single fighter would be the cost in weight for a corvette class vessel while repair would be the normal costs