Look captain, no hands! (Auto-Jumpdrive!)

[Gasboy]

Come to think of that "over-click" thing that I think Jaaskinal mentioned a few posts ago, that is definitely true. However, the mere fact one is able to automatically charge jumpdrives in combat is unsettling to me. The whole purpose of the manual charge design of the jumpdrive was to prevent people from using their drives in combat, just like Schema said.

I don't see that as a huge issue though. Unless charging your jump drive prevents your turrets from firing and your weapons from cycling, you were always going to be able to charge your drive in combat. If you have a big gun/missile on the front, lets say, you could fire, then hit the number of your jump drive, spend a few seconds charging it up, and then switch back to your main weapon. Can't do much while waiting for your weapon to cycle.

And turrets are a way to fight and charge at the same time.

It's the getting around inhibitors that worries me more.

 

[Incap]

Come to think of that "over-click" thing that I think Jaaskinal mentioned a few posts ago, that is definitely true. However, the mere fact one is able to automatically charge jumpdrives in combat is unsettling to me. The whole purpose of the manual charge design of the jumpdrive was to prevent people from using their drives in combat, just like Schema said.
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But it is overpowered, in its current state. That's a provable fact. There is literally no reason to use warpgates anymore or make large jumpdrives anymore when you can logic-jump across the galaxy in a matter of minutes.

Considering warpgates are incredibly finite in their range and in order to properly protect them, you need people on constantly, I'd say warpgates are already useless. Using the complex system of logic, jump modules and computers, figuring all of that out and figuring out how to use it properly, then you should reap the benefits and rewards that come with perseverance and hard work.

 

[Planr]

Considering warpgates are incredibly finite in their range and in order to properly protect them, you need people on constantly, I'd say warpgates are already useless.

I'm glad you see the problem.

Using the complex system of logic, jump modules and computers, figuring all of that out and figuring out how to use it properly, then you should reap the benefits and rewards that come with perseverance and hard work.

Good for you. And I am helping make that process a little easier for people. If you've got a problem with that then too bad.

 

[Incap]

I'm glad you see the problem.


Good for you. And I am helping make that process a little easier for people. If you've got a problem with that then too bad.

And you've ruined it in the process. This will end badly and nobody will benefit from this. Don't complain when that happens.

 

[Planr]

And you've ruined it in the process. This will end badly and nobody will benefit from this. Don't complain when that happens.

Seriously, fuck off dude. I can help people be better at this game if I want. I haven't ruined anything; if anything i'm helping people by sharing with them a useful game mechanic. You are saying I should continue to maintain some sort of community-wide ignorance about this so only "the worthy" make use of this. Well I don't buy into that kind of elitism. It's not gonna happen. There is absolutely nothing wrong with me sharing this with people, and I'm not going to continue arguing with you about this any longer. Please stop.
[DOUBLEPOST=1442106025,1442104942][/DOUBLEPOST]Anyways, another cool screenshot:

Leaving the Galaxy behind...

 

[max stripe]

seriosly? the fuck they taking it out for?
we need a way to automate jumpdrives so we can do intergalactic travel there is not reason to be rid of this

 

[Gasboy]

seriosly? the fuck they taking it out for?
we need a way to automate jumpdrives so we can do intergalactic travel there is not reason to be rid of this

No one (from Schine) said anything was being taken out.

If anything, all that has to be done is to stop logic jumps from getting around jump inhibitors.

 

[max stripe]

No one (from Schine) said anything was being taken out.

If anything, all that has to be done is to stop logic jumps from getting around jump inhibitors.

ah ok thats good

 

[Jaaskinal]

The only real things keeping them from being truely OP thought is the fact that JD inhibitors 1) are a lot stronger than jump drives 2) are a lot easier to activate with logic/manually 3) it still costs power.
I was testing today, and I doubled the time of a ~250 block jumpdrive with a one block jumpdrive. I don't know how much it takes to totally negate one, but if you're just buying time, inhibitors are a lot better, logic powered or not.
Inhibitors literally just work at the press of a button. They're simple, they're easy, and they're effective. I'm quite fond of them, and I think they make jumps out of combat an interesting dilema (with logic or not) now. You either have to dedicate enough space to a JD to make sure you can get out, and force the opponent to either make a bigger inhibitor or to not use it, or you void the other persons inhibitor simply by dedicating no space to a jumpdrive and having the most dakka possible.
My very fast charging design seems to take more power. I haven't done tests specifically on that, but it seems like the total charge to charge a jumpdrive stays the same regardless of how long you charge it for. Having a three second charge is nice, but it eats a bit of power. (It's still negligable, but it's an interesting quirk and makes instantly charging a buttload of drives not-viable, especially if their large and you're trying to get around inhibitors.)
All in all, I'd like to see the logic behind them change a bit to balance them. It'd be nice if when an uncharged drive has a high input, it charges. It shouldn't need a clock, it should just charge with an 'on' button. No overclocking to make it faster, no complexity to be better than your peers. If it's already charged and recieves a high pulse, it should jump, just like it does now.

 

[Aynslei]

The only real things keeping them from being truely OP thought is the fact that JD
All in all, I'd like to see the logic behind them change a bit to balance them. It'd be nice if when an uncharged drive has a high input, it charges. It shouldn't need a clock, it should just charge with an 'on' button. No overclocking to make it faster, no complexity to be better than your peers. If it's already charged and recieves a high pulse, it should jump, just like it does now.

+1 probably the best way to trigger the jump, having to use a clock, and then make a fancy timer just to make sure it won't jump until I want it to ends up taking a good amount of space. I would like it if they output a high signal when they are fully charged as well, for being able to read when ready.

 

[StormWing0]

hmm just fix the bugs with the logic jump drives not being affected the same way manually charged ones are and make them send out a charged signal we can catch, than we'll be good to go.

Why not make it so only signal blocks can charge while activator and trigger blocks of some kind or another can trigger the jump? Also have 2 output signals of activated and charged. Charged is picked up by signals, while Activated is picked up by activators and triggers, but in both of those cases the blocks picking up the signals just have to be next to the jump drive to get it.


Also fixing the JD Inhibitors not wanting to turn off by logic might help as well. >_> I've found though that weapons fire still knocks out logic charged jump drives just like manually charged ones if you shoot the ship in question before it can fully charge.

 

[Planr]

Also fixing the JD Inhibitors not wanting to turn off by logic might help as well. >_> I've found though that weapons fire still knocks out logic charged jump drives just like manually charged ones if you shoot the ship in question before it can fully charge.

The charge is only affected if you damage one of the jump blocks. For a logic drive, all you'd need is one jump block per computer, so you'd have to be quite precise/know where to hit in order to knock out the logic drive's charge. Also dont forget that since its all multiple drives charging together, you'd have to manually knock all the drives out to stop the ship from eventually jumping. Or destroy the logic clocks, which might actually be a bit easier to do if they are in a vulnerable part of the ship.

 

[Heillos]

Also fixing the JD Inhibitors not wanting to turn off by logic might help as well.

JD Inhibitor logic is pretty much like a flip-flop; 1 high-signal to turn it on, another to turn it off.
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All in all, I'd like to see the logic behind them change a bit to balance them. It'd be nice if when an uncharged drive has a high input, it charges. It shouldn't need a clock, it should just charge with an 'on' button. No overclocking to make it faster, no complexity to be better than your peers. If it's already charged and recieves a high pulse, it should jump, just like it does now.

+1 probably the best way to trigger the jump, having to use a clock, and then make a fancy timer just to make sure it won't jump until I want it to ends up taking a good amount of space. I would like it if they output a high signal when they are fully charged as well, for being able to read when ready.

Another factor which makes logic-charged jump drives unbalanced, of course, is that many can be charged at once. When manually charging them, this obviously can't occur (can only highlight one hotbar slot at a time), so it is fine in that case, but logic circumvents that. I imagine it would be quite simple to ensure that only one drive can charge at any given moment, which would leave them simply as an automated version of normal jump drives, without any advantage in speed. There would also be the potential to nerf them even further, although I think that would be unnecessary.

 

[Jaaskinal]

Another factor which makes logic-charged jump drives unbalanced, of course, is that many can be charged at once. When manually charging them, this scenario can't be encountered, so it's fine, but logic circumvents that. I imagine it would be quite simple to ensure that only one drive can charge at any given moment, which would leave them simply as an automated version of normal jump drives; not any faster, and with the potential to be nerfed even further; although I think that would be unnecessary.

I think you should be able to charge multiple jump drives. It's a risk-reward decision, you can have very fast but easy to inhibit jump drives, or you can have possibly slower, but a harder to inhibit jump drive. With multiple jump drives, you can not make them large, because they all have normal power and size requirements.
Inhibitors have an easier time stopping logic powered jump drives. Inhibitors hit every jump drive on a ship equally with their max charge, if you use more computers with slower jump drives. A smaller inhibitor could be used to stop logic powered jump drives compared to player powered jump drives. (assuming you're not like Twoniner and I and just give everyone one block JD's regardless.)
Normal player controlled jump drives would be slower for normal travel, (unless made very large) but would be less susceptible to inhibitors.
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The charge is only affected if you damage one of the jump blocks. For a logic drive, all you'd need is one jump block per computer, so you'd have to be quite precise/know where to hit in order to knock out the logic drive's charge.

Or you could build mode spy the logic connections and shoot there :P

 

[Planr]

Or you could build mode spy the logic connections and shoot there :p

Well maybe do that if you know where the enemy's base is at so you can spy on that specific ship which you will later fight, cause its not like you can do buildmode spying while in combat... lol you'd just open yourself up to get roasted

 

[max stripe]

Well maybe do that if you know where the enemy's base is at so you can spy on that specific ship which you will later fight, cause its not like you can do buildmode spying while in combat... lol you'd just open yourself up to get roasted

you can if your sheilds can tank it

 

[Planr]

you can if your sheilds can tank it

and also assuming the enemy isn't moving too fast in a direction other than the one you are moving fast in.

 

[StormWing0]

Here's a fun challenge make a logic system that lets you select the number of jump drives you want to charge and have tons of drives ready to be selected from. Also make it doable from the hotbar with as few slots used as possible. Say 100 jump drives and a cycler to pick the number needed also a bonus for having a way of displaying the exact number being charged at the current time.

 

[Jaaskinal]

Here's a fun challenge make a logic system that lets you select the number of jump drives you want to charge and have tons of drives ready to be selected from. Also make it doable from the hotbar with as few slots used as possible. Say 100 jump drives and a cycler to pick the number needed also a bonus for having a way of displaying the exact number being charged at the current time.

That'd be fun to wire the logic up, but TBH just having all of them charging and stopping them from charging/firing from the hotbar would be the easiest and most effective.

 

[Planr]

Still wondering what SCHINE will do regarding jumpgates and this. Incap is right that jumpgates need some serious buffs to their functioning, but this logic jumpdrive, as it is now, isnt very balanced either.