Look captain, no hands! (Auto-Jumpdrive!)

[Incap]

Bam.

Gone in the next update. Well done.

 

[Comr4de]

While this is really fun and enables Star Wars-esque FTL travel (jumping across the galaxy in a matter of hours or minutes) its pretty unfair balance wise, so I dont expect it to stay around for long. I am quite surprised though that AndyP and Lancake have not noticed this capability, because its been in the game for a very long time. Anyways the best we can do to level the playing field for now is for everyone to be able to know this neat trick :D

The destroyer of fun! The annihilator of enjoyment! Behold, look upon his works and despair.

 

[Planr]

The destroyer of fun! The annihilator of enjoyment! Behold, look upon his works and despair.

??????

 

[Comr4de]

There is literally nothing wrong with this. With a 10+ minute charge up that can easily be stopped by interdictors I see no problem justifying its "fixing"

 

[Planr]

There is literally nothing wrong with this. With a 10+ minute charge up that can easily be stopped by interdictors I see no problem justifying its "fixing"

Its only a 10+ minute charge-up if you use like one or two clock motors to power the charging process. If you amp it up to 20 or even 40 logic motors you can charge it just as fast as a normal jumpdrive. Also dont forget that a 10+ minute charge is OP if you have it charging a large enough number of drives. 80 1-block jumpdrives can take you much farther (and also rapidly once they are fully charged) with a 10-minute charge-up time than you could with a single large drive. 8 sectors times 80 jumpdrives is 640 sectors, which equals 6,400 km travel distance on a 10-km sector server like Hypercore or GenX. Thats in the ballpark of what, the distance between two galaxies? And within 10 minutes?

It may be ridiculously OP and kill the purpose of jumpgates, and because of that it needs to be patched, but in the meantime it is still a neat mechanic and is worth sharing so everyone can try this out. At least it's not something actually harmful to people, like if it was some sort of homebase de-protection exploit. If I ever found something like that I would have done my best to conceal it from the public and tell SCHINE about it. God forbid a faction or two alone have knowledge of such exploits and broken game mechanics, because it can spell potential disaster for whomever's hand such knowledge does not fall in.

As for interdiction being a good counter to this this, that is true if they are just one-block drives. But remember you can charge any size drive you want with this, so IF your ship DOES have a drive strong enough to naturally overcome the interdiction, and your logic motors are charging the drives at full capability, you can have your drives autocharge for you while you use your weapons and fight back. Which is definitely OP and circumvents the whole reason why Schema implemented a hold-down charging mechanic for jumpdrives in the first place.

Why are you and Incap being so defensive of this mechanic anyway? It's not exactly a secret to begin with, and if this is another one of those ex-Tartaran "secret faction weapons" like TwoNiner's marvelous adventures with the unpatched and ridiculously OP shield drain, then too bad. Play fair. This is something everyone's got business knowing, and everyone ought to be able to learn how to do, patched or not.

 

[Incap]

Its only a 10+ minute charge-up if you use like one or two clock motors to power the charging process. If you amp it up to 20 or even 40 logic motors you can charge it just as fast as a normal jumpdrive. Also dont forget that a 10+ minute charge is OP if you have it charging a large enough number of drives. 80 1-block jumpdrives can take you much farther (and also rapidly once they are fully charged) with a 10-minute charge-up time than you could with a single large drive. 8 sectors times 80 jumpdrives is 640 sectors, which equals 6,400 km travel distance on a 10-km sector server like Hypercore or GenX. Thats in the ballpark of what, the distance between two galaxies? And within 10 minutes?

As for interdiction being a good counter to this this, that is true if they are just one-block drives. But remember you can charge any size drive you want with this, so IF your ship DOES have a drive strong enough to naturally overcome the interdiction, and your logic motors are charging the drives at full capability, you can have your drives autocharge for you while you use your weapons and fight back. Which is definitely OP and circumvents the whole reason why Schema implemented a hold-down charging mechanic for jumpdrives in the first place.

Why are you and Incap being so defensive of this mechanic anyway? It's not exactly a secret to begin with, and if this is another one of those ex-Tartaran "secret faction weapons" like TwoNiner's marvelous adventures with the unpatched and ridiculously OP shield drain, then too bad. Play fair. This is something everyone's got business knowing, and everyone ought to be able to learn how to do, patched or not.

That is for them to learn on their own. The ideal of competition is to find new ways to overcome and gain an advantage on the opposition. That is how the strong become strong and the weak are left to wallow complaining about imbalance and unfair gameplay. Why should we lower our own standards just because a few can't innovate? Now, the devs will patch this and make this whole innovation impossible, removing yet more nuance from the game.

 

[Planr]

That is for them to learn on their own. The ideal of competition is to find new ways to overcome and gain an advantage on the opposition. That is how the strong become strong and the weak are left to wallow complaining about imbalance and unfair gameplay. Why should we lower our own standards just because a few can't innovate? Now, the devs will patch this and make this whole innovation impossible, removing yet more nuance from the game.

The reason we put tutorials in video games is so that players can learn what they need to be able to play the game and have the potential to be good at it. That's what this thread partially is: a tutorial for making this nifty (although overpowered) jumpdrive mechanic for those who didn't already know. If you don't like that I can't really help you, whatever it is you are seeking or are upset about.

 

[Incap]

The reason we put tutorials in video games is so that players can learn what they need to be able to play the game and have the potential to be good at it. That's what this thread partially is: a tutorial for making this nifty (although overpowered) jumpdrive mechanic for those who didn't already know.

Tutorials should only teach the basics. Handholding isn't an ideal I support in any way. If they were actually interested in advancement, then they'd experiment.

 

[Planr]

Tutorials should only teach the basics. Handholding isn't an ideal I support in any way. If they were actually interested in advancement, then they'd experiment.

I can help people play the game or be better at it however I want. Who are you to dictate that to me?

 

[Incap]

I can help people play the game or be better at it however I want. Who are you to dictate that to me?

Give a man a fish.

 

[Planr]

Give a man a fish.

... and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a life time (and you won't have to give him fish again :D)

You are right that this is an "innovating" mechanic. It really is quite neat. However it's really OP as it is now, and could use some serious nerfing IMO. The only real game mechanic that can prevent this from being fully OP is the game config setting for max amounts of computers on a ship, and that is still entirely up to server admins. Even if the number of jump computers on a ship is limited, you can still autocharge drives, which is something Schema probably did not intend considering he designed jumpdrives to charge manually (instead of having a "reload time" like missiles and alpha-damage weps). Whatever the devs do with this mechanic, intended or not, we will see.

 

[Jaaskinal]

I should probably point out that it's even more OP than you're making out with clocks. I used a 32Hz clock and amplified it through 64 nots into another flipflop to charge a one block jumpdrive on a frigate (which would normally take about 45 seconds) in three seconds. This should be fixed somehow, because it is OP, but I don't feel like it should be removed.

 

[Aynslei]

It is currently OP, but it should not be removed from the game.

Like others have said before me logic can charge them WAY to fast, if a limit is put on them it will bring them in line fine.
(Like how a logic push drive cannot activate as fast a player held one no matter how fast you clock it)

Its already fine and balanced that a corvette with a 1-2 block jump inhibitor just removed that 10+ minute spool time. (Make that spool up time longer and its more than balanced)

 

[Jaaskinal]

As for interdiction being a good counter to this this, that is true if they are just one-block drives. But remember you can charge any size drive you want with this, so IF your ship DOES have a drive strong enough to naturally overcome the interdiction, and your logic motors are charging the drives at full capability, you can have your drives autocharge for you while you use your weapons and fight back. Which is definitely OP and circumvents the whole reason why Schema implemented a hold-down charging mechanic for jumpdrives in the first place.

Schema implemented a hold-down firing mechanic for weapons, doesn't mean I cant use turrets or logic powered weapons.

 

[Planr]

Schema implemented a hold-down firing mechanic for weapons, doesn't mean I cant use turrets or logic powered weapons.

Yes, of course. But that's different.

I quote Schema on this:

To charge, you have to hold the left mouse button in flight mode like shooting a weapon. After it is charged, you can press right click to jump. The mechanic to actively have to charge up the Jump Drive is in place to make it more dangerous to use in battle.

Source: http://star-made.org/news/starmade-0-17-warp-gates-jump-drives-and-a-lot-more

I am for having an ability to logic-charge drives, as long as people aren't able to charge them just as fast (as well as faster than) as manually possible when in combat.

This entire problem could be easily fixed by implementing two things:

• The power cost increases exponentially when charging multiple jumpdrives at once via logic (so as to prevent megajumping titans)
• The amount of "clicks" that can travel through a button is limited so that you can't charge drives so ridiculously fast with logic as is capable of now.

 

[Incap]

... and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a life time (and you won't have to give him fish again :D)

You are right that this is an "innovating" mechanic. It really is quite neat. However it's really OP as it is now, and could use some serious nerfing IMO. The only real game mechanic that can prevent this from being fully OP is the game config setting for max amounts of computers on a ship, and that is still entirely up to server admins. Even if the number of jump computers on a ship is limited, you can still autocharge drives, which is something Schema probably did not intend considering he designed jumpdrives to charge manually (instead of having a "reload time" like missiles and alpha-damage weps). Whatever the devs do with this mechanic, intended or not, we will see.

You haven't taught him to fish. You haven't taught him to experiment or innovate. Why bother when someone gives you shit for free? And what happens when the world runs out of people who give away free shit?

 

[Planr]

You haven't taught him to fish. You haven't taught him to experiment or innovate. Why bother when someone gives you shit for free? And what happens when the world runs out of people who give away free shit?

Nice strawman fallacy, but no, that is not the case. The line of reasoning you're using here is ridiculous, as the tutorials in the game would fall into this "free shit" category you are denouncing (ex: the tutorials tell players how to set up a proper weapon array). All I have done is shared with people how a game mechanic works.

Others who have posted in this thread such as Trekker have learned how to make their own logic jumpdrives using the knowledge I have given them. I didn't give them any designs or blueprints. I just told them how the mechanism works. They have to put together their own logic drive themselves. I do not know why you are being so argumentative about this but I would appreciate it if you stop.

 

[Gasboy]

Yikes, logic operated jump drives can get around jump inhibitors? A bit of an oversight there.

 

[Incap]

Nice strawman fallacy, but no, that is not the case. The line of reasoning you're using here is ridiculous, as the tutorials in the game would fall into this "free shit" category you are denouncing (ex: the tutorials tell players how to set up a proper weapon array). All I have done is shared with people how a game mechanic works.

Others who have posted in this thread such as Trekker have learned how to make their own logic jumpdrives using the knowledge I have given them. I didn't give them any designs or blueprints. I just told them how the mechanism works. They have to put together their own logic drive themselves. I do not know why you are being so argumentative about this but I would appreciate it if you stop.

Already stated the tutorials should only teach the basics.

My issue comes from the fact that you've brought this to the devs attention in a way that presents it as completely overpowered. We all know they live in a bubble and will just get rid of it instead of 'fixing' it.

 

[Planr]

Yikes, logic operated jump drives can get around jump inhibitors? A bit of an oversight there.

Come to think of that "over-click" thing that I think Jaaskinal mentioned a few posts ago, that is definitely true. However, the mere fact one is able to automatically charge jumpdrives in combat is unsettling to me. The whole purpose of the manual charge design of the jumpdrive was to prevent people from using their drives in combat, just like Schema said.
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Already stated the tutorials should only teach the basics.

My issue comes from the fact that you've brought this to the devs attention in a way that presents it as completely overpowered. We all know they live in a bubble and will just get rid of it instead of 'fixing' it.

But it is overpowered, in its current state. That's a provable fact. There is literally no reason to use warpgates anymore or make large jumpdrives anymore when you can logic-jump across the galaxy in a matter of minutes with 80 one-block jumpdrives.