Criss' Thread

[Jake_Lancia]

Do you know what makes them fall short? There is an awful lot of space used for interior designs in the fighter and bomber for the TG.

Btw before I continue I want to state I was not intending for my above post to be rude in any way.

Now that's cleared up...

Taking the TG Fighter as an example, it has too little shielding and an underpowered main weapon as standard. What I'd suggest is changing its cannon's effect into partial overdrive and using the space saved for additional power regen and shielding, to increase it's potency.
Change nothing about the interiors. They're of top quality and are compact enough to leave plenty of room for systems. The thrust is also very good and surpasses some of my fighters :D

I've made a modification to the TG fighter myself that includes the above changes. I'll share it here if anyone else is interested in testing it.

 

[SchnellBier]

At this point it´s hard to tell if the balance works. I started a war against scavs with my 180m ship (SBS_Alice with lots of interior so no hardcore combat build.) and they didn´t stand a chance. They didn´t even scratch my shield. Maybe one problem is that the AI is still bad and the faction mechanics still seem to be bugged. (They switched to peace all the time.) Another problem is that the scrapyard station that they have is destroyed in 1 minute. It also has not a single turret of any kind to even make a lightshow. Anyhow, I guess taking on an entire faction with 1 180m ship is not intended so they definitly need a bit more combat capabilities.

 

[Jake_Lancia]

At this point it´s hard to tell if the balance works. I started a war against scavs with my 180m ship (SBS_Alice with lots of interior so no hardcore combat build.) and they didn´t stand a chance. They didn´t even scratch my shield. Maybe one problem is that the AI is still bad and the faction mechanics still seem to be bugged. (They switched to peace all the time.) Another problem is that the scrapyard station that they have is destroyed in 1 minute. It also has not a single turret of any kind to even make a lightshow. Anyhow, I guess taking on an entire faction with 1 180m ship is not intended so they definitly need a bit more combat capabilities.

Agreed. AI does indeed play a major part in the lack of success of the NPC Factions. The ships themselves don't need as much changing as you're implying though.

 

[godmars]

Also, people are stating in testing that the current ships are way underpowered. Thoughts on that? With the inclusion of interiors it will be hard to compare to solid ships but from what I am hearing we have built the worst good-looking ships in StarMade. I doubt it's that bad, and I am proud of ships like the B190 Trading Guild frigate. What do you guys think?

Personally I'd take any critique with a grain of salt. While they are definitely not top-of-the-line, cutting edge box-shaped PVP material, some players seem to to think a newbie will immediately be facing off with AI factions in some 12k++ ship or greater (or that they'd want to fly something at that size or above). They don't seem to actively dog-pile you like they should, and players already can easily kill something several times their size as it is. Additionally it seems that there is a bug that prevents TG specifically from expanding (although admittedly I don't know if that actually affects the number of ships they can field)

IDK about scavs. I keep getting TG every new world and only TG. But I would imagine that ships built out of odds and ends would suck. They should just make up for that deficiency with numbers.

Like Jake said, I think the smaller ships (I don't know what the scav equivalent is) could do with increased shielding, though. It seems they have their weapon computers shot out extremely quickly and then default into that 'i'm gonna ram you but not really' AI state

 

[Criss]

TG Fighter

The thing about the TG is that they don't want to stick around and fight. If we can alter behaviors in future AI updates, the TG are more likely to warp out. I can bump up their shielding, but at the cost of what I am not sure. TG do focus on shield capacity a lot.

scrapyard station

I actually had no intention to put turrets on that station. I might have to temporarily because it is their only asset.

As for Scavenger AI, I would hope that they just overwhelm you with numbers instead of being actually powerful. That way if a new player comes across a stray ship they stand a chance. I can't speak for player ship designs, but when the Scavs come at the TG with the right combination of ships it gets ugly.

 

[Mr.Steam]

When I shot at the scrapyard station a bunch of ships for their faction spawned in and shot at me, but then a bunch of them started shooting at each other. They were mostly isanths but they all were in the same faction, yet they got into a big fight with each other. It was fun to watch, but probably not intended.

EDIT: Sorry I posted in the wrong thread, I mean't to be in the dev thread

 

[Blodge]

How are you guys doing these test battles? Particularly the ones against the small fighter ships? Are you pitching single ships of similar mass against them? Or are you taking a single large ship against a fleet of fighters? If the latter, is the fleet of equivalent combined mass to your single large ship?

 

[Criss]

How are you guys doing these test battles? Particularly the ones against the small fighter ships? Are you pitching single ships of similar mass against them? Or are you taking a single large ship against a fleet of fighters? If the latter, is the fleet of equivalent combined mass to your single large ship?

It's a mix of all sorts of battles. For the most part, the Scavenger pirates have been able to take on the TG ships when it's a 2:1 ratio in mass. So two Scav fighters can do decently against one TG fighter and so on.

 

[Criss]

Greetings citizens! Time for another showcase. Today we have the Scavenger's first bombing vessel, the Kontos. There will surely be more. We want the Scavengers to rely on a more chaotic approach to combat, and so they will utilize missiles and rapid fire cannons heavily. Furthermore, they will not rely on any strict doctrine for their weapons setup.

Anyway, here is the ship!

The Kontos is a very symmetrical hull. The main body is broken in multiple parts, where a cockpit sits on top. The rear of the ship is easily the weakest section of the ship. The forward section is more heavily armored. Each nacelle carries a missile system. While the ship is effective against similarly sized targets, it is virtually unprotected in combat. The bombers are best used when backup is guaranteed, as is the case with most Scavenger ships.

That's it for this showcase. We are just about running out of our own ships and stations to showcase on this thread. In the future we will be taking a long look at the ships created by our players during the fleet contest. Those posts will come more quickly, and we will dive into them to see what they are all about. Thanks for reading!

 

[kiddan]

Hmm, this looks like a ship I'd gladly board and take-over on my first days on a server or new level. Some good flat spaces for docking modifications, too!

Then again, all your guys' ships look quite impressive. So; xD

 

[Reilly Reese]

Fleets might do well with more ships within the same classing tbh.

 

[Criss]

Fleets might do well with more ships within the same classing tbh.

Can you be more specific?

 

[Reilly Reese]

More than 1 frigate or fighter model? That way the fleet is more diversified and can have subtle specializations.

 

[Criss]

More than 1 frigate or fighter model? That way the fleet is more diversified and can have subtle specializations.

Well we would certainly do that if we had time to build the variants. There are already plenty of planned variations for the ships we have built. They are not a priority however. This first release of NPC factions will serve as a foundation for future work, including what sort of assets we need.

FYI, the Scavengers already have a good number of ship variations. Some models already have two variants that will be making it into the game. They will likely be the most diverse faction for the time being.
[doublepost=1481858872,1481857068][/doublepost]To provide further information I am counting:
- Fifteen Scavenger assets. Twelve ships, three stations. Two stations will be temporary.
- Twelve Outcasts assets. Nine ships, three stations. Three stations will be temporary.
- Twelve Trading Guild assets. Seven ships, five stations. Nothing temporary, but prone to updates.


Now, as for planned assets that I 100% know we want to build:
- Scavengers will be getting at least fourteen more ships and at least seven new stations afterword.
- Outcasts will be getting at least nine more ships and at least six new stations.
- Trading Guild will be getting at least nine more ships and at least seven more stations.

This listing does not include hull variants. Expect double the numbers for the Scavengers easily.

This also does not include abandoned stations, player fleets, planetary builds, other planned factions or other things I have not thought of.

 

[Nickizzy]

Well we would certainly do that if we had time to build the variants.

Can't you, like, spend half an hour switching half the ships' main weapons out and changing the hull colors a bit? We could be talking in-game counter tutorials, if a fleet of ships had say a bunch of ion or something, and players interacted with them for long enough to pair 2 and 2 together. It can also increase replay-ability and depth, as having sub-variants means that players could pick and choose what they would bring to a fight based on what the enemy had. The only problem would be if it conflicted with the theme of a faction, a missile only faction shouldn't be messing around with high-power cannons.

SalvagerCorvette- SalvagerCorvette_(Beam/Cannon/Missile)_(Beam/Cannon/Missile/Pulse)_(Effect)

As for extra ships besides that, add stuff like extra armor plates. Thruster boosters. Cargo Pods. The theme can stay the same, but individual ships BPs could have smaller changes that would vastly increase the "Oh wow look a new ship" feel.

An extra thing that would be good is if there was an alamac or something of the sort, that had all of the factions and all of the ships you had seen on the nav screen. This would be great for lore or background knowledge, as you could get a bit more info on that one new design you saw. It doesn't have to be straight stats and a BP, it could be a picture with a bit of lore about it like "Modified variant of the Endurance class Corvette with extra engine plating."

You could even add a backstory, like: "As a response to the Yun Kun piracy attacks, the Trade Federation declared a new mandate to prevent sublight drive blowout, and thus improve effectiveness against the new pirate strategies targeting the vulnerable engines of our Endurance ships." < and maybe have the regular Endurance class have really weak engine armor, and the engine being where the JD is held or something. Hidden design flaws.


Endurance is an example, btw. To lazy to scroll up a bit and find a real ship.

 

[Criss]

Can't you, like, spend half an hour switching half the ships' main weapons out and changing the hull colors a bit? We could be talking in-game counter tutorials, if a fleet of ships had say a bunch of ion or something, and players interacted with them for long enough to pair 2 and 2 together. It can also increase replay-ability and depth, as having sub-variants means that players could pick and choose what they would bring to a fight based on what the enemy had. The only problem would be if it conflicted with the theme of a faction, a missile only faction shouldn't be messing around with high-power cannons.

SalvagerCorvette- SalvagerCorvette_(Beam/Cannon/Missile)_(Beam/Cannon/Missile/Pulse)_(Effect)

As for extra ships besides that, add stuff like extra armor plates. Thruster boosters. Cargo Pods. The theme can stay the same, but individual ships BPs could have smaller changes that would vastly increase the "Oh wow look a new ship" feel.

An extra thing that would be good is if there was an alamac or something of the sort, that had all of the factions and all of the ships you had seen on the nav screen. This would be great for lore or background knowledge, as you could get a bit more info on that one new design you saw. It doesn't have to be straight stats and a BP, it could be a picture with a bit of lore about it like "Modified variant of the Endurance class Corvette with extra engine plating."

You could even add a backstory, like: "As a response to the Yun Kun piracy attacks, the Trade Federation declared a new mandate to prevent sublight drive blowout, and thus improve effectiveness against the new pirate strategies targeting the vulnerable engines of our Endurance ships." < and maybe have the regular Endurance class have really weak engine armor, and the engine being where the JD is held or something. Hidden design flaws.


Endurance is an example, btw. To lazy to scroll up a bit and find a real ship.

With regards to the almanac bit, I plan on integrating some form of it into the game. It isn't actually up to me but having all the ships, as well as other entities, anomalies, flora, fauna, factions and tutorials should be listed in a codex. I will push for this in development down the line as I think it is practically necessary.

As for your first statement, that is exactly what we are doing. In order to prevent all of our surprises from being revealed, I have not yet posted any of the ship variants here. I have them documented very well, and have showcased them on livestream. They will be posted on this thread a few weeks after they are introduced into the game.

I would like to point out a problem with your suggestion though. It takes much longer than 30 minutes, even for the small ships.

Here is a link to the Chakram, a fighter revealed on this thread. The Chakram focuses on speed, and so has a high thrust to mass ratio. We have other fighters that focus on defenses, or offensive capabilities. This leaves the Chakram weaker in those areas of design.

When I design a new variant, two things need to happen. It needs to actually function differently. I can't be a simple swap of weapons as that usually doesn't work well, more so as you grow in size. The second thing is that it needs to reflect the new purpose in it's design. The base hull remains the same.

Here is a new version of the Chakram fighter called the Karambit. This version focuses even more on speed. It has sacrificed it's jump drive for an overdrive module and a higher thrust to mass ratio. A new engine system is in place to reflect it's altered purpose. This radical change in the hull design has led to serious changes to it's internal space. At this point I need to rip out the systems and rebuild them to ensure the ship is as good as it can be. There is a good chance this thing might not have been capable of flying without re-assessing it's systems.

This is how we will be approaching the variants. It can't be simple palette changes, much as I might like it to be. The problems with these changes will surely be lessened to some degree as we get into larger builds. I don't expect to be replacing the internals of a capital when I make variations of it's hull, however since the size increases, I will still surely be building for a while.

 

[catkinson19]

That's a solid asymmetrical ship.

 

[Criss]

Hello. With the release of the new update, I would very much like it if feedback on the ships and stations was posted here. Anything goes, from missing blocks, to system stats changes and so on. I would like the ships to be the best they can be.

However I will not change them immediately for marginal changes. I will also not change them if they are out of the original design philosophy for that build, such as putting lasers on the missile oriented combat ships for the Scavengers. I will also not change them if the result is something way too powerful or weak for their intended purpose.

But say if you know how to make power systems more efficient on something or a better route for weapon ratios, let me have it.

 

[Napther]

Hello. With the release of the new update, I would very much like it if feedback on the ships and stations was posted here. Anything goes, from missing blocks, to system stats changes and so on. I would like the ships to be the best they can be.

However I will not change them immediately for marginal changes. I will also not change them if they are out of the original design philosophy for that build, such as putting lasers on the missile oriented combat ships for the Scavengers. I will also not change them if the result is something way too powerful or weak for their intended purpose.

But say if you know how to make power systems more efficient on something or a better route for weapon ratios, let me have it.

With the general way you've constructed the ships I dont think there is a way for them to be really too powerful for their weight. On ships that dont use Alpha having a large power capacity can waste a bit of valuable space, but overall I remember the TG Frigate has like 1 MILLION power regen ion its tiny frame, and only uses up to 6-700 thousand of that power. There is still capacity for more DPS, mainly adding cannon slave on it to 90% and above, as firing 1 output of a "heavy" punch cannon is not great for block killing. 2 outputs could fit better.

The TG Patrol craft needs cannons slaved to it (remove some of the main and effect systems to throw at least some rapid fire potential). The drone can stay how it is, as a first line, cheap, and very noob friendly then it will escalate into gradually more powerful ships that arent just larger and carry more weapons modules in general, but use them more effectively.

 

[Criss]

With the general way you've constructed the ships I dont think there is a way for them to be really too powerful for their weight. On ships that dont use Alpha having a large power capacity can waste a bit of valuable space, but overall I remember the TG Frigate has like 1 MILLION power regen ion its tiny frame, and only uses up to 6-700 thousand of that power. There is still capacity for more DPS, mainly adding cannon slave on it to 90% and above, as firing 1 output of a "heavy" punch cannon is not great for block killing. 2 outputs could fit better.

The TG Patrol craft needs cannons slaved to it (remove some of the main and effect systems to throw at least some rapid fire potential). The drone can stay how it is, as a first line, cheap, and very noob friendly then it will escalate into gradually more powerful ships that arent just larger and carry more weapons modules in general, but use them more effectively.

Okay. I can add more outputs on the frigate. The tg combat doctrine is big guns, not fast ones. It might now be the players first choice but i want their shots to be powerful, not quick. If you have suggestions with that in mond id like to hear it