An Urgent Message to Schine

[Sachys]

Starmade Jingosim Warriors

think i fixed that to be about right - maybe even alt

Edit: certainly more fitting to a good amount of the extremists you speak of

 

[DrTarDIS]

I dont disagree with the rest of your post, but this:



..is not true. I just tested in a private window after cleaning my browser and the vast majority of stuff I found by simply searching "starmade" was video tutorials and RP based series. My guess is, you've watched a lot of PVP videos, and thats what youtube is feeding you.
Of course, youtube could be guessing what Im looking for based by region. Either way, its an empty point you have.

Unless you forced a fresh IP address from your ISP as well as changing your router/modem's MAC, google/youtube still knows it's you...

The community isn't really........The community is plenty for play-testing at the moment.

I kinda disagree. What little activity there is is unable to provide any real data on networking and server stress. Those two used to be the absolute go-to-please-fix-it things that were showcased with any semi-active server. I'd wager they still would be if the playerbase was anywhere near even 2016 levels. Can't really use steam charts for those levels either, since a good chunk of their stats include people sitting in single player building some vanity ships and stations.

Also there's not enough active PVP to really have a real discussion of balance other than "x doesn't even work, also please remove gun shake"

Granted, as currently implemented there isn't really anything worth testing in starmade to begin with. Glad Schema woke up from his "lets force Equity of outcome" tarded ness, that's a great first step. But I still think starmade is going to be just a purdy 3d MS Paint till around 2020.

 

[Sachys]

Unless you forced a fresh IP address from your ISP as well as changing your router/modem's MAC, google/youtube still knows it's you...




I kinda disagree. What little activity there is is unable to provide any real data on networking and server stress. Those two used to be the absolute go-to-please-fix-it things that were showcased with any semi-active server. I'd wager they still would be if the playerbase was anywhere near even 2016 levels. Can't really use steam charts for those levels either, since a good chunk of their stats include people sitting in single player building some vanity ships and stations.

Also there's not enough active PVP to really have a real discussion of balance other than "x doesn't even work, also please remove gun shake"

Granted, as currently implemented there isn't really anything worth testing in starmade to begin with. Glad Schema woke up from his "lets force Equity of outcome" tarded ness, that's a great first step. But I still think starmade is going to be just a purdy 3d MS Paint till around 2020.

Same point though - whatever you think youtube covers most in regards to SM, search results are related to what Youtube thinks you want to see,

 

[kurosawa]

The community isn't really... .

Nice, and shine had nothing to do with it, it was all the evil pvp'ere and everybody else fault ?

but you right the community isn't falling apart, it already has.

 

[JinM]

Nice, and shine had nothing to do with it, it was all the evil pvp'ere and everybody else fault ?

but you right the community isn't falling apart, it already has.

A game that's playable will allways have people that want to talk about it.

So as long as Starmade allows us to build amazing ships, there will allways be some people talking with each other about this game.

So I have to disaprove with your point here.

Secondly I highly suggest to stop talking about the past.

 

[MacThule]

Nice, and shine had nothing to do with it, it was all the evil pvp'ere and everybody else fault ?

but you right the community isn't falling apart, it already has.

OK, if you insist. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and, as they say, everyone has one. Don't put words in my mouth though, please.

I didn't mention PvP.

At all.

No one here is or was blaming "PvPers" except in as much as individuals like Red self-identified as PvPers while slandering mods and such and tried to paint bans over brazen and overt forum rule violations as some kind racial discrimination against "Peeveepeeurs." Though it is true that the abusive minority I mention did/does absolutely love to make literally every issue of game development about "PvPers" or "vets" (kinda tailcoating on people's conditioned support for actual military vets) while trying to assert that they solely represent those groups.

Literally anything they disagreed with was met with "You just hate peeveepee cause you suck - git gud!" Even when it came to outright exploits these issues were being painted as some kind of bizarre "PvP Rights" issue.

Not by accident: By persistently implying that anyone voicing preference for a different development path does so purely out of some secret "dislike of PvP" they open a door to insinuate that the underlying cause is lack of skill and understanding of the game mechanics and therefore assault the value of an individual's input on the issue in the minds of the community and dev team.

Saying an issue is about PvP is essentially a very slick ad hominem attack on opponents.

You want to close an exploit? "Mah peeveepee!" (i.e. "Shut up, noob! Git gud!")

You disagree with demands to re-open someone's favorite closed exploits? "Unfair treatment of peeveepee!" (i.e. "Shut up, noob! Git gud!")

I used to associate with the PvPers because MOBAs and SC/SCII were my shit for like a decade and I still get into those a lot, but... I hadn't realized until sometime last year that on this forum "peeveepee" was by and large a loaded abstraction being held over everyone's heads to control forum dialogue regarding what the community wants by implying opponents of one's opinion don't know the game.

As if there aren't hundreds of mutually exclusive styles of PvP gaming popular with hundreds of thousands of gamers, only one way. Your way.

In actuality, within PvP gaming there exists a vast multitude of different preferred playstyles. The fact that someone likes to pound big ships into each other doesn't mean their opinion represents the opinion of a PvPer who enjoys playing a more strategic and economic game and vice versa. PvP is FPS, PvP is RTS, PvP is MOBA, PvP TBS, PvP is even MMORPG sometimes. Literally every playstyle can be a PvP playstyle. It's not distinctive.

At the end of the day, PvP is nothing but a choice. Not even a single choice, an entire class of nominally similar but substantially very, very different choices. Choosing PvP doesn't mean you know the game and it doesn't mean you're gud.

It doesn't entitle anyone to 'special' consideration or status. Ain't no "Playstyle Affirmative Action." It doesn't convey some "right" to demand that software engineers in any given game genre never make changes to an application that negatively affect your own, personal PvP playstyle preference.

PvP in Starmade is very different beast, anyway. Most PvP games don't expose play to nearly this exploit potential where a tiny elite can abuse game mechanics in many, many ways that go against the developers explicit stated intent, using such exploits to dominate public servers until they become private playpens for overgrown babies to bully and toy with clueless new joins. All justified by "we're just testing! we're helping find problems" while continuing to hump unclosed exploits for months on end and often never reporting them as bugs. That kind of so-called "PvP" (so-called because as part of using exploits to maintain a petty fief of noobs on a pub server some ships are inevitably destroyed) is actually a major reason most new players who join a public server end up leaving the game after a short period. Which made it super ironic (props) to have a clique of such players screaming that closing exploits was going to kill the community and threatening that if Schine acted to do so the dissidents would actively kill the community by posting negative reviews everywhere to prove that it was somehow Schine's fault....

Which they did.

Schine's changes didn't kill the community, the retaliatory internal/external PR assault over the changes did and was explicitly calculated to do so.

 

[Crashmaster]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. So true.

 

[Cragun]

From my experience with the game:

My community that I played with was around 32.

The server itself was centered around pvp / pve. The PVE potion of the game was aimed at the early game with new players coming in building ships to fight the NPCs. PVP was the main point of the late game.

Our rules were simple:

1). No ship was allowed to be bigger than 10k mass. Factions were allowed to have a capital vessel of 50k mass. We never had any lag issues because of this.

2). New players were off limits until they could take out TrainDoger's Hellebarde 1.0. Veterans would actually make 1k mass ships to help new players out hunting them.

3). Mechanic exploitation was not allowed. No internal dock shield/power things that seemed to become the meta on other servers.

Salvage arrays were a none issue as everyone would just hunt Pirates for blocks which lead to people buying out shops and trading for what they wanted/needed. Our server began to have some semblance of balance both in trade and PVP. Missile were a little op but we made ships with enough point defense to counter them. Our meta developed differently then other servers because of our stance on no exploits. We were having fun and growing until "power 2.0" was announced.

May 14, 2017 Power Update was announced.

We stopped building new things with the mindset that we'd wait Power 2.0. We were hoping for a release date range of August. Typically devs don't announce major changes until they are ready to (close to) implementing them. Power 2.0 didn't come out until January of 2018! That is nearly a year later or 8 months.

It wasn't the changing of the power system that drove players away. It was Schine inability to deliver that change in a timely manner while people were still interested in the game. We didn't lose faith in the game we lost faith in the developers ability to develop the game.


That is what killed Starmade, sorry if its a bit harsh.

I still come around ever once in a while to see if there is a resurgence in the community but every time it seems that its mostly dead. The max players I see on servers at any given time is three. I hoped the the game would become popular again but now its seems like I should just forget about it altogether.

 

[Edymnion]

Which made it super ironic (props) to have a clique of such players screaming that closing exploits was going to kill the community and threatening that if Schine acted to do so the dissidents would actively kill the community by posting negative reviews everywhere to prove that it was somehow Schine's fault....

Which they did.

Schine's changes didn't kill the community, the retaliatory internal/external PR assault over the changes did and was explicitly calculated to do so.

So much all of this.

You don't claim that you want certain things so that the game will succeed, and then turn around and ACTIVELY SABOTAGE the game when you don't get your way.

They didn't care about the game, they just cared about being bigwigs that could call the shots. It was a power trip for them, nothing more. And when they got told "No, you don't get to make that decision", they decided that if they couldn't be the boss they'd just burn everything to the ground so that nobody else could be.

Want to say the community already fell apart? GOOD. The "community" we had was broken. There are times when you try to repair, and there are times when you just bulldoze everything to the ground and rebuild.

 

[Alphajim]

The most ironic thing ? RP was never the opposite of PvP. Actually PvP is Player vs Player, and afaik you can fight players when you RP. So it's even dumber, as these "PvP gods" didn't even knew what PvP is. Or didn't want others to know it, idk.

 

[OfficialCoding]

The most ironic thing ? RP was never the opposite of PvP. Actually PvP is Player vs Player, and afaik you can fight players when you RP. So it's even dumber, as these "PvP gods" didn't even knew what PvP is. Or didn't want others to know it, idk.

Yes, that works in theory. However, it won't work for long, since once one player starts building a ship that is more suited for PvP and less suited for RP, the other player will follow and pretty soon we are right back where we are now.

 

[JinM]

The most ironic thing ? RP was never the opposite of PvP. Actually PvP is Player vs Player, and afaik you can fight players when you RP. So it's even dumber, as these "PvP gods" didn't even knew what PvP is. Or didn't want others to know it, idk.

It's not like pvpers have the high ground on whats right or wrong regarding weapons or mechanics balance. The problems arised when non-hardcore pvp players stated their opinions and got labelled as RPers that wanted to suffocate PVP. But roleplayers have an equally important opinion on gamebalance. It's still in some peoples heads that a not-pvp player should not have any voice regarding balancing stuff. It just happend like 1 month ago that a user got shouted down without retaliation in the sm discord for stating an suggestion that comes from a non-hardcore pvp oriented player.

Btw. The "you are a rper you have no right or clue" is a ad hominem.

Secondly it's a special case of ad hominem. The kafka-trap: You are guilty no matter if you agree or disagree on "you are a rper". If you agree on being an rper you have no clue. If you disagree you are still guiltly of not knowing pvp, because people would allways say that they know alot about pvp to not get labelled as clueless noob that shouldnt have a say.

yaha!

 

[OfficialCoding]

It's not like pvpers have the high ground on whats right or wrong regarding weapons or mechanics balance. The problems arised when non-hardcore pvp players stated their opinions and got labelled as RPers that wanted to suffocate PVP. But roleplayers have an equally important opinion on gamebalance. It's still in some peoples heads that a not-pvp player should not have any voice regarding balancing stuff. It just happend like 1 month ago that a user got shouted down without retaliation in the sm discord for stating an suggestion that comes from a non-hardcore pvp oriented player.

Btw. The "you are a rper you have no right or clue" is a ad hominem.

Secondly it's a special case of ad hominem. The kafka-trap: You are guilty no matter if you agree or disagree on "you are a rper". If you agree on being an rper you have no clue. If you disagree you are still guiltly of not knowing pvp, because people would allways say that they know alot about pvp to not get labelled as clueless noob that shouldnt have a say.

yaha!

That about sums it up.

Yes, it is frustrating arguing with established PvPers about balancing and stuff, and while I have made sum kinda crappy suggestions about game balance the fact remains that PvPers do not have the final word on Balance, but then neither do RPers. It would be nice if we could all come to a middle ground, but given the toxicity of some members of the community I wouldn't hold my breath.

It would also be nice if Schine included mechanics that discouraged Meta PvP, but the new Rule System might be able to handle that stuff.

 

[Az14el]

<tldr literal -gate prefix tier conspiracies over space lego game>

where do i buy what you've been smoking the last few years?

 

[MacThule]

where do i buy what you've been smoking the last few years?

I'd love to share!

Go through Marine Corps boot camp, then turn left at a signals intelligence career. Invest 18 months in special schools to come out with a top secret clearance, and then go spend a year doing OJT under the NSA where you learn to analyze & report on the shenanigans that foreign governments and organized crime syndicates get up to using only spotty available intelligence. It's called "analysis." Go spend some time helping out with various missions in foreign countries and fleets.

Then when you've spent about 5 years doing that, go back to school and major in philosophy.

Finish your degree and set up a trust company that handles several million dollars worth of other people's businesses and real estate assets every year, winning their court battles for them, teleporting them from one jurisdiction to another just by shuffling papers, and moving their assets offshore.

I've been trained to spot shenanigans by the best as well as by practiced necessity in protecting my own personal profits. It doesn't require proving every last detail to show clearly to a jury or any other public forum that something untoward has happened.

All day every day people fuck each other over for money, power and even just the perception of respect. Always have, always will. Pretty straightforward from there on in.

Pack yourself a fat bowl, bro.

On me.

 

[Crashmaster]

Just come to Canada eh.

Also;

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals,and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills.

I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words.

You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands.

Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit.If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue.

But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it.

You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

It's just a meme bruh.

 

[aceface]

Just come to Canada eh.

Also;

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals,and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills.

I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words.

You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands.

Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit.If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue.

But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it.

You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

It's just a meme bruh.

 

[kulbolen]

i see macthules still delusional

 

[TheDerpGamerX]

Why is this thread still going

 

[Az14el]

Don't do drugs kids