Whats WRONG with the Community???

[Bench]

I think the community can often have a knee-jerk reaction to posts like this sometimes. I think it's a bit about perspective too. Some people like yourself think the community is bad, others I've spoken to really like the community. Different people in different perspectives. There's always some toxicity and I've been involved in enough communities over the years to know that no matter what, there'll still be a little bit that lingers, such is what is brewed through anonymity and the ability to either read into stuff or take stuff the wrong way.

We like to use the phrase Alpha is Alpha for StarMade, it's a bit like Que Sera, Sera.. whatever will be, will be. It can sometimes feel like a cop out or an excuse but the fact is StarMade is in an alpha state while major new aspects of the game are added. It makes tutorial or 'how-to' videos quite difficult to keep up to date as the content is constantly evolving as we add new features in. Similarly it's also why the marketing isn't being pushed as it will be in the future, as many of the big game features aren't even in yet, or announced. Case in point one thing you mentioned was people's hesitancy to share ships or designs, or not even share what they're even doing on a server or interact with anyone else; well these are things that will be addressed in future features planned for the game.

It's a difficult time for new people joining the community by virtue of a complex game that's constantly changing and a community that have been around forever and know the game in and out and are fidgety while waiting for the next thing to come out. This is why we're working towards a missions/objectives system as has been mentioned in a couple different news posts, as we want to ensure that not only can you engage in an incredible space sandbox of building, but also have reasons, focuses, goals and objectives to work towards.

Needless to say, as one of the few that know the full picture and plans for the game, I'm sitting here wishing you could see what I can see, because it's going to be incredible and one that I very much looking forward to play. And when we get there we'll look back to what it was when we were sitting here discussing and think that this was just a fleeting glimpse of what's was to come.

 

[SuperWookie]

Many of us have been here for years, and don't understand everything because it all changes so often. For example, I have no idea how to efficient power. All you can do is slowly learn things and keep up with dev news. Once the game changes slow, things will be more documented.

I'll put together a power box for you if you want, it'll give you an idea on how to make efficient power reactors up to the 2mil softcap.

 

[Viridis00]

stuff

Your whole argument is basically "why doesn't everybody spoonfeed me". I've had the exact opposite experience. I've been able to find help for anything I don't get myself on the forums, wiki (although it is incomplete in a lot of ways), or from staff. Also, why compare a popular and well documented game to a small upcoming game like starmade which both have similar topics and will produce some overlap in a search engine? Of course minecraft is going to have info that bleeds over into SM because they're both voxel games and sometimes have ideas that are relevant to each other AND has more page views.

 

[kiraen]

Yup. I admit it. I'm one of the elitist jerks. But it's threads like this that make me feel justified.
All the information is available, you just have to actually put some effort into reading it.

Otoh,
StarMade Development Direction

I figure you are in the 'scream at the heavens' stage.

 

[Daeridanii]

This is one of the posts that just make me lean back and sigh. If there are no tutorials, the MAKE ONE! Perhaps once you put yourself in the person's shoes, then you'll realize why there aren't millions of tutorials out there. If the you're looking for a wiki, then press the wiki button!

 

[RabidBat]

Disclaimer: My usually wall of text ahead. Those adverse to books, that prefer twitter, misquoting, have no idea what context is and lack a sense of sarcasm or humour should avoid. :D

Now have your "Dissecta-Post-Misquota-tron 3000's" at the ready and start reading!!!!

OP, I can agree to some point, but I feel it's a combination of the community, the devs, helpers/staff and the game.

Welcome to a world where everyone is different. StarMade is the kind of game that attracts people who are socially awkward. So that is a huge part of the problem, have you ever tried getting someone with social awkwardness to be normal or friendly and sociable? It can be a challenge. They're not intentionally hostile, they just live in a world where they are right and everyone else is wrong, agree with them constantly and you'll be friends for life.

I kid you not, nearly every one I have met in this game is socially awkward and overly nerdy with very few exceptions. Remember this is a spaceship building game, it appeals to a certain type of person.
I myself even can fit this mold, although I tend to be a bit more in your face and outgoing. :D But honestly your post also shows yourself to be another perfect specimen of this.

This is actually made worse by the devs disabling all the negative ratings for posts. on the forums, as they try and do a facebook and make it so you can only like things. Because they like most of the people posting do not like constructive criticism or negative feedback, which of course you need as much as, or more so than ass kissing in a game that is still being developed.
I can sort of understand why they do this, because of the social interaction issue many are incapable of just saying "I disagree with you" and offer up valid reasons why, they will misquote you and dissect your post and change everything into something else. :p

There are a few regulars and well knows that will shut down any suggestion that is not their own simply because it is not their own, they refuse to read and twist what you say instead of contributing to the conversation or offer any flexibility. As the community is so small they tend to stand out making it seem more prevalent. E.g I can always expect at least the same 3 or 4 people to reply to my post and that it will always be against what I have to say before they've even read it. If you say blue they will go on about how you said red.
So this does give an impression of toxicity. Especially when the majority of StarMade players, are actually playing the game and never visit forums at all.

Also yes the wikis are often out of date even the official one, or lacking in information and it can be hard as fuck to know what is going on with the game at times with it always being re-balanced and changed every other week. Example: it says you cannot use piercing effect with missiles it does nothing, when in fact it does.
And good luck getting an answer on how settings both in game and admin related work or an answer to 'does the universe simulation work?'.
But when people can they will help or give some feedback if you post on here. Well for most things. Not AI though, nobody including the devs know what is expected with AI except that it should be fucked up every other month. :p

There is community content and guides out there, but yes it is a problem finding it, or at least finding stuff that is relevant. Because most videos are from 2013 and StarMades community is a small one and getting smaller by the day unfortunately,so of course that means less chance of people making or providing stuff. The official stuff needs some serious SEO work. Not helped by 'hey let's move shit from 2013 to the new forums "even though it's out of date and utterly useless" and other "lets keep the inactive staff busy by giving them something to do because purple" mentality. :p

But anyhooo back on topic....... so yes many of the problems are the community and player base size. This is not CoD with several million people playing it, so everything is reduced including helpful friendly players. I myself am planning on some short 5 minute-ish how-to videos, they'll focus mainly on the basics and getting up and running in SM. But yeah I have to admit my motivation is for my own community of players, being public for everyone else is just a bonus.
In saying that OP, what is stopping YOU from making guides and videos etc?

On the other hand find a decent community. Only interact with forum posters who do not have their head up their arse or are pretentious wankers. Do you just play SM solo and offline, or have you joined a server with an active community?
Take the one I am part of for example. CraftAU, everyone is friendly and helpful and very social, even the socially awkward. You can be at war with someone and they will happily tell you how to optimise your power and missiles and bake a nice scone to go with your tea.
So maybe you need to extend your search for friendly and informative outside of google search and the official sites?

Also do you have friends who play StarMade? Encourage them to get on the forums and speak up, offer their suggestions and such. This game is in development of course, and if everyone I met that plays StarMade actually got on here and voiced their suggestion, opinions and concerns, you'd have a lot more friendly people to deal with and much more sensible suggestions being put forward and the few loud autistic types that comment on every thread would finally be drowned out once and for all.
This is the real challenge, I talk to player daily who have some great ideas, dislike quite a few design choices madeby the devs or where they are focusing their attentions or who they listen to, but they admit they're too lazy to visit or join the forums or like 90%of gamers have no interest in them,and often it is simply because they tire of dealing with know it all never wrong autistic fanboys who crawl up developers asses.

But I remind them, we are play testing, devs cannot fix shit if they are not aware of it so come here and report the bugs, offer feedback on changes etc. I keep at it and am slowly getting through to them. As I tell them, squeaky wheel gets the grease, if they say nothing the whiny wheel gets it instead. :p

So yeah, for now don't expect anything to change in a hurry. If you want it to change then do what is needed to change it. Offer suggestions and feedback, encourage those who have the same outlook as yourself to get active in the community. Suggest the game to your friends if you have any to increase the player base, doing so will help eventually squash StarMades bugs and I do not mean the in game ones. :p
And go find a fun community that will address most of your issues with the game that relate to the social side.
Make your own guides and realise you're not playing a full retail game, but play testing a game that is in a very very slow and very very long development that has a pretty small group of overly anal pretentious fanboys like any game does and you'll start having a much better time of it all.


As my Daddy used to say, "Son,if you cannot dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullshit." Kind of makes sense when I think of StarMade players.
Me too before the obvious "talking about yourself there Rabid" reply. LMAO

 

[Jerry_Brinefield]

I think the community can often have a knee-jerk reaction to posts like this sometimes. I think it's a bit about perspective too. Some people like yourself think the community is bad, others I've spoken to really like the community. Different people in different perspectives. There's always some toxicity and I've been involved in enough communities over the years to know that no matter what, there'll still be a little bit that lingers, such is what is brewed through anonymity and the ability to either read into stuff or take stuff the wrong way.

We like to use the phrase Alpha is Alpha for StarMade, it's a bit like Que Sera, Sera.. whatever will be, will be. It can sometimes feel like a cop out or an excuse but the fact is StarMade is in an alpha state while major new aspects of the game are added. It makes tutorial or 'how-to' videos quite difficult to keep up to date as the content is constantly evolving as we add new features in. Similarly it's also why the marketing isn't being pushed as it will be in the future, as many of the big game features aren't even in yet, or announced. Case in point one thing you mentioned was people's hesitancy to share ships or designs, or not even share what they're even doing on a server or interact with anyone else; well these are things that will be addressed in future features planned for the game.

It's a difficult time for new people joining the community by virtue of a complex game that's constantly changing and a community that have been around forever and know the game in and out and are fidgety while waiting for the next thing to come out. This is why we're working towards a missions/objectives system as has been mentioned in a couple different news posts, as we want to ensure that not only can you engage in an incredible space sandbox of building, but also have reasons, focuses, goals and objectives to work towards.

Needless to say, as one of the few that know the full picture and plans for the game, I'm sitting here wishing you could see what I can see, because it's going to be incredible and one that I very much looking forward to play. And when we get there we'll look back to what it was when we were sitting here discussing and think that this was just a fleeting glimpse of what's was to come.

Exactly this! You're comparing starmade to minecraft, but you're failing to consider that starmade and minecraft are in HEAVILY different stages of development. As Bench pointed out, Starmade is really in an awkward position right now, where it's still trying to find its footing and create its identity. I don't really think its fair to compare the community of a small game to something as huge as minecraft, where its playerbase exceeds that of some countries. While your considerations are valid, and I agree with some of them (hostility of the community at times and the harshness of people), I think its important to consider that the game is still trying to find out who it is, and the community with it. As updates come out and the game starts to develop more of an identity, I think we'll see the community develop an identity of its own as well. The changes that you would like (More of a supportive and informative community) will come as the playerbase expands and starmade matures. Community quality is correlative with game quality. As one matures, the other does with it.

 

[Ghent96]

So: new acount, made today, complains.

Quit being a coward, use your real account. Your IP is logged either way.

Your post is drivel. I don't notice a problem with any of that.

Wow... great job proving his point about a sour community. ;p

Dear Chomar, I think your main problem is that you've come to the dock first, and asked newbie questions, and gotten frustrated, and probably spent some time in the chat on this site. I'm terribly sorry you've had to suffer like this. I wish I could have given you the Mushroom Fleet URL and G+ links your first day. We have a really friendly atmosphere on the server. People go out of their way to help newbs. There are literally thousands of videos of random fun stuff, and hundreds of how-to videos from either the founder or other members. Each patch has had a dedicated video about it, not only detailing the changes but with a tutorial and example. Almost 2 years ago now, I found starmade via these prolific videos, and made the same mistake as you - coming to the "Dock" here. The forums were just as sour back then, and little has changed. Avoid the drama. Find a nice server, and hang there.

Mods? What mods are you wanting? There's lots of custom blocks in plusnine's custom block pack. Many of them such as new hull colors were actually implemented into the official game after he made them. I can't say that Schine used his exact ideas or colors, but that's what the sequence of events, taken alone, implies. Also, long before warp gates officially entered the game, a server admin came up with a really neat mod for his server to put in warp gates, NASS server maybe? ... Point is, modders and players can influence the game.

Jaaskinal, despite the quote bombs, well said.

Jerry... you do realize this game is over 3 years old (that I know of). How can it still be trying to figure out what it is? This seems a bit silly to say. Moreoever... the developers should have had that in mind before they ever even started making it... moreover, "we" as the community also can determine what this game is, if we squeak the wheel loud enough (and if devs don't listen, a game dies). This game can't not know what it is, yet.

 

[Reilly Reese]

Wow... great job proving his point about a sour community. ;p

Dear Chomar, I think your main problem is that you've come to the dock first, and asked newbie questions, and gotten frustrated, and probably spent some time in the chat on this site. I'm terribly sorry you've had to suffer like this. I wish I could have given you the Mushroom Fleet URL and G+ links your first day. We have a really friendly atmosphere on the server. People go out of their way to help newbs. There are literally thousands of videos of random fun stuff, and hundreds of how-to videos from either the founder or other members. Each patch has had a dedicated video about it, not only detailing the changes but with a tutorial and example. Almost 2 years ago now, I found starmade via these prolific videos, and made the same mistake as you - coming to the "Dock" here. The forums were just as sour back then, and little has changed. Avoid the drama. Find a nice server, and hang there.

Mods? What mods are you wanting? There's lots of custom blocks in plusnine's custom block pack. Many of them such as new hull colors were actually implemented into the official game after he made them. I can't say that Schine used his exact ideas or colors, but that's what the sequence of events, taken alone, implies. Also, long before warp gates officially entered the game, a server admin came up with a really neat mod for his server to put in warp gates, NASS server maybe? ... Point is, modders and players can influence the game.

Jaaskinal, despite the quote boms, well said.

Mushroom Fleet LOL

 

[Ghent96]

Bring it on, Thadius ;P Bring it on. The truth is out there, and everyone knows it. Whether they like to admit it or not, is a different story.

 

[Reilly Reese]

Bring it on, Thadius ;P Bring it on. The truth is out there, and everyone knows it. Whether they like to admit it or not, is a different story.

Bring on what? Mushroom is Illuminati that's the truth

 

[DukeofRealms]

Bring on what? Mushroom is Illuminati that's the truth

This isn't relevant to the conversation, please keep on topic people... and try to be nice.

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

This Community is BAD. Its the worst ive ever seen in a Sandbox game

I've seen worse, even for a Sandbox game. Heck, I got into Minecraft back when it was in INFDEV, and the Community was Toxic then.
Too many Aspergers types trying to hump Notch.

Why? Well, everybody seems to work for him / herself.

Not Entirely, join a faction and see how that changes.

It starts with Blueprints and Ships and Desings. Everyone is locked and lockable. Seriously? WHY?

As was mentioned earlier, it's mostly due to Theft.
There's the more common "in-game" kind, where you forcibly take a ship from someone, blueprint it, and can then shit them out willy nilly, and the original designer then has to get an admin to ban the thief just to regain controll over his creation.

In a "creative" type game, your Intellectual Property is one of the few things you have. There will allways be some douchebag trying to pass off YOUR work as if it were his work.
And you spent Months building that, Dammit.

Lets compare this with 3d computer modeling, as that's the closest thing.
the GOOD modelers end up with people buying their work, because doing so is easier than doing the same damn thing on their own.
The shitty modellers whine and bitch about how no-one is buying what they're making.
Or, they start ranting that the stuff made by the Good modellers should be given away for free.
(it should allso be made mention, that the GOOD modellers have to fairly constantly fight to keep their stuff as Theirs, because Thieves are fecking everywhere. For every good modeller, there's at least 20 thieves trying to take and sell the modellers stuff as if it were their own.)

When it comes to modding and stuff, everything is "find it yourself or die"

Indeed, and you know why? Because the base code changes about every month.
You know how far back Minecraft was when it was changing every month? (and with newly implemented CORE features?)
Pre-alpha. Minecraft Didn't have Mod support back then either, and fecking Everyone threw a goddamn fit about it.
(throwing a hissy about having to do it yourself isn't exclusive to Java codemonkeys, but they sure seem to be the loudest about it.)

As a side point, Minecraft Modding would still be in the bronze age if it weren't for the FORGE team, who took the time to make damn near every function-call accessible to anyone willing to use the FORGE toolset.

But, they couldn't do that untill about 3/4 of the way through the BETA testing phase
StarMade hasn't left early Alpha testing yet.

Google searches are delivering more Minecraft results than starmade.

Did you remember to tell Google "STARMADE" in Quotation marks like that? that tells it "do not display a result if this word/phrase 'STARMADE' is not present in the text".

Otherwise, as mentioned earlier, Google REMEMBERS what the fuck you've searched for before.
EX: that anime porn you looked up last month? Google REMEMBERS.
Google even remembers it's own "alternative" options. And will show them to you at a single typo.

When it comes to server stuff this gets even worse. Noone cares to document what theyre doing and sharing with the Public.

Naturally so! The "Public" you're so concerned for is made of assholes, mostly, and they will gladly use anything revealed about how stuff works to thwart the Admins at every turn.
EX: lets say someone actually went and revealed what text-string did what server-side. This would end up with assholes BEING the admins, and hurling planets at anyone they don't like.

I know, everyone put hard work in his / her project. Youre not getting paid.

You know who else doesn't get paid? Undergraduates. Parts of Texas call 'em slaves for a reason.
(and I'm sure other places call 'em that too, they just do a better job of hiding it)
But the way you're implying it is that because I did this thing during my free time, that that makes it Your thing to do with as you wish? Bullshit.

BUT - this attitude will keep new players from joining and, exchange is a vital Part of Sandbox Games

Actually, No. The attitude of "keep silent untill they've proven they aren't another Asperger type" will simply not help to attract new people.
The attitude of "I hate all these fucking new people" THAT is what drives away new players.

By the way, "I'm fucking sick of all these new people Not reading the goddamn wiki" is what inevitably leads to a Player-made wiki becoming derelict. What's the fucking point keeping it up-to-date, when the new people it would actually help won't fucking read it?

Take a minute and think very hard where you want starmade to be in a year. A bunch of Elitists where noone new joins and every player that leaves will be missed?

You take minute to think about where you want Starmade to be in a year.
With a hardened core of die-hard fanatics, who know the game inside and out nearly as well as the dev-team, and a soft, squishy outer layer that's shifting around all the time because they're the players who literally can't dedicate more than 10 hours a day to StarMade, but love it all the same.

Or, a cesspool where everyone is an entitled little maggot screaming "do this for me! do this for me!" at all hours of the day, because their incessant whining and asking of the same questions drove the hardcore players to leave the game.

Because you're arguing for the cesspool. I've seen it happen to a few too many games over the last few decades.


Oh, and as to ME being a toxic son-of-a-bitch? How ever did you know that I'm a Caustic personality type?
It's called a litmus test for a reason.

 

[IG-1000]

My question is why is this thread even still here?
Seems to me like it's just a Sh**post

 

[DukeofRealms]

My question is why is this thread even still here?
Seems to me like it's just a Sh**post

There is some constructive conversation going on that could potentially help us improve the community sites. If it does dive into the deep dark, it will be locked.

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

At a guess? because like a great many shitposts, some small part of it is a valid truth.

For example, the most visible parts of the dock being the meaner personalities, like me.

And maybe because everyone needs a place to vent now and then, lest we all go up in a grand fireball.


EDIT: Ninja'd by Duke.

 

[IG-1000]

There is some constructive conversation going on that could potentially help us improve the community sites.

Yeah but I think he could have gone about it a better way though...
I mean like the way he's going about it makes it rather off putting and makes him look a troll...

 

[DukeofRealms]

Yeah but I think he could have gone about it a better way though...
I mean like the way he's going about it makes it rather off putting and makes him look a troll...

That's fair criticism. It seems to me that it's only in the best interest of the community, if it isn't, we might be able to turn it into something positive

But it seems to be bringing the responses in, as long as it stays in the light, we'll see how this conversation goes. Hopefully we can continue to get some good info back from the community.

 

[Blaza612]

There are some valid points, and some that aren't, but everyone else has pretty much covered them.

So instead, I'm going to provide you with a special bit of research I did with someone else a while back (Dammit, can't remember their name) to show that the community isn't a toxic cesspool. :p

When it comes to using the beam/cannon combo, if you want to maximize your DPS/output, then the most efficient ration of beam:cannon is 100:78. 78 is the sweet spot where the raw damage output is still at it's peak, but the tick rate has increased drastically. It's the peak of the amount of damage you can do with beam/cannons, and I can imagine that it'd be the same for cannon/cannon.

If ye have any questions about game, then ask. There's plenty of community content, and there will always be those few who are willing to share their knowledge. ^_^

 

[kingreol]

What are you basing this judgement on the most?
The Forum? is usually a terrible metric to use, forums generally bring out the critical nature in people. I hardly post in a forum in general because its usually not to lighthearted. and not friendly to new players. not starmade specific

The Individual players: alpha games in general bring out the most intelligent of players first. and with that a lot of spreadsheets, math. Many im sure are also programmers and have a leg up in that they understand the engine in more detail then most.... hubris and arrogance sometimes creeps in.... these players are needed. but the playerbase is small enough that the game is only figured out bye a few.. so only so many will post, it takes some search work. picking peices here and there. eventually this will end. once the game is stable in its balance and all the features put in. then enough of the playerbase will have figured out the game and passed it along.

Instead of comparing it just with Minecraft. compare it to both Minecraft and Eve. as the community brings both worlds. and both communities... brush up on Game Theory, and the Art of War...