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    What happened to Starmade?

    Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DemonOrca95, May 14, 2019.

    1. DemonOrca95

      Joined:
      Jul 11, 2013
      Messages:
      32
      I've been a long term follower and player of this game ever since one of my best friends introduced it to me. Eventually, I befriended a couple of admins throughout my history and even joined factions of them on a few servers, even some Youtubers dedicated to this game.

      For a pretty long period of time, I've been away from here since the power system was changed. (To this day I still don't understand why such a change was deemed necessary when the community itself was already content with what we had before) I have a lot of fond memories here, lots of in-game moments on servers that I could only dream of reliving, and made some great friends.

      I've thought about coming back recently, and I have mixed feelings about doing so. I looked at the official StarMade server list and noticed something quite ominous: There's little to no people online on any of them as if the population of the player base is gone. A part of me hopes this is just the result of me only looking at the lists on weekdays when people are less likely to be on.

      So my question is, did our beloved game die? And did the Power Update cause it from people having to rebuild and gut their own ships/stations? If not, what's happened to the community here and why are most gone? It makes me feel worried about this game's future.

      I give my word I'm not trying to sound like a whiner here, it's just that I haven't been able to reach out to anyone I used to play with or get a straight answer from on what's been going on with StarMade. I really hope this is just me being paranoid. If anyone can provide me with an honest answer, it'd be appreciated.
       
    2. MChain

      Joined:
      Jun 9, 2013
      Messages:
      105
      Since power update the game became pretty different and somewhat more limiting (with those chambers you can't have a multipurpose ship anymore, and that hurts most as for me). There were several major flaws - fixed now but pretty annoying while they were there. Several limitations meant to fight metaships which are gone now. Plus for a long period of time the playerbase was more or less inactive due to not knowing what to do with ships and not building anything. Those caused a majority of players to leave the game. But it is far from actually being dead. More like comatose but not without hope.

      Anyways there's nothing with comparable freedom of building out there. And wasn't this game created for us to build our own content and gameplay?
       
      • Like Like x 2
    3. LordPizzaJunkie

      Joined:
      Oct 23, 2013
      Messages:
      22
      Also, schine is working on the universe update an has said that they themselves will not update much until the universe update comes out (presumably in a few months), which caused a lot of player to hibernate and wait
       
      • Like Like x 1
    4. OfficialCoding

      OfficialCoding Professional Quickfire Hater

      Joined:
      Nov 8, 2017
      Messages:
      404
      The game is dormant atm. If I were you I would join the official discord and just wait for the universe update
       
    5. Malum Phasma

      Joined:
      May 2, 2015
      Messages:
      22
      I actually had wondered what DemonOrca95 had just posted myself. Over the last month or so i have begun playing again (solo) and trying to learn the new power systems. All my old ships are defunct now and my assumption was the same that power 2.0 and rebuilding ships and stations with millions of blocks had helped with the decline that I had seen.

      Still, with all of that said, I hold out that it is just a slump servers/players until the universe update is out and this power 2.0 system can be tweaked into something more manageable while letting us not having to gut our ships.

      The fact forums are at least somewhat active does make me not want to give up and ship out yet! Heres to more servers and the people to fill them!
       
    6. happahappa

      Joined:
      Jun 19, 2016
      Messages:
      95
      In the interview a few month ago -- which is lost, somewhere here on the forums --, schema said something like "universe update ..., maybe 2020".
      so ... don't hold your breath. Also don't expect anything to change for the better in the mean time. I think the game as it currently is, is as good as it gets. even the universe update, if and when it arrives, won't change that. you probably just continue the endless voyage of stuff not working like you did with all the past updates.

      but all i do is complain. here is a more constructive proposal for everyone, who is still around and caring:

      since there is virtually nobody left playing this online, we could have some kind of starmade reunion once in a while, where everyone meets at a server and works together on a common project - maybe help someone with his ship, work or finish some projects together, we were working on alone, have some small battles,... whatever comes to mind.

      at the moment, many people are probably like: oh, nothing going on, so i why should i even connect to a server. if we had a scheduled event, maybe that would lure some people out again :)

      what'y'all think?
       
      • Like Like x 7
    7. kikaha

      Joined:
      Jul 10, 2013
      Messages:
      624
      That's a good idea. Another one...

      To help with your proposal may i suggest the Cake Build Server for building help and projects and Brierie for events like races and combat tournements ?
       
    8. Malum Phasma

      Joined:
      May 2, 2015
      Messages:
      22
      Well granted I was trying to be optimistic, I really don't want to just "throw in the towel" as it were, I have enough fond memories (despite all the bugs) and have build some things I am rather proud of. But your point is taken.

      I believe I like the scheduled events idea, and it may at least bring back some old players to give it another shot. If not, it may give the last of us hanging on something more.

      I havent looked up any info, let alone who owns them yet, but do you think the Cake Build Server and Brierie admins would agree?
       
    9. MChain

      Joined:
      Jun 9, 2013
      Messages:
      105
      I had a working stadium somewhere... If I just could fix those spacerugby shuttles... They relied heavily on pull effect paired with cannon. Will check if it's playable with tractor beam. We could try and organize some games
       
    10. happahappa

      Joined:
      Jun 19, 2016
      Messages:
      95
      I don't really care about the servers, I could also just boot my private build server, if nothing could be found (5min work really).
      Or i try to get whitelisted on Cake. I just don't want to do any grinding for resources and all the silly resource micro management, because at the current state, there is really no point in wasting your time with that. So creative mode would be a nice thing to have.
      MChain, that sounds like fun, would love to see that stadium! Someone also did built a racing track here on the dock (i don't recall who). Maybe that could be the next game in the starmade olympics ;)
       
    11. Ribbons0121R121

      Joined:
      Mar 2, 2018
      Messages:
      69
      i honestly don't really play on servers, i mainly just play singleplayer and screw around trying to build something nice, but how do you make a private server?
       
    12. DeepspaceMechanic

      Joined:
      Mar 10, 2016
      Messages:
      428



      Tshara's "Zero-G race track"
      Maybe these aren't what were mentioned, but it's all good stuff, here they are for anyone interested.
       
      #12 DeepspaceMechanic, May 18, 2019
      Last edited: May 18, 2019
      • Like Like x 1
    13. MChain

      Joined:
      Jun 9, 2013
      Messages:
      105
      Hmm. Guess the stadium can be scrapped. Tractor beam can't work in short pulses, and having a 2s pulse literally makes the game unplayable

      Pull cannon was used to get the ball from narrow areas like a corner or from the nose of the opponent's shuttle. But then you had a 4s reload. Now you have either un-aimable pull beam of 2s or a permanent switchable tractor beam. Useless... Either no cooldown or extremely hard-to-use contraption. No sense. And if only to push the ball using your shuttle - it is insanely easy to get it stuck
       
    14. happahappa

      Joined:
      Jun 19, 2016
      Messages:
      95
      DeepspaceMechanic, thanks for the links,
      Ribbons0121R121, creating your own server is not so straight forward, especially if you want others to be able to join you. But there are some good threads in the forum about it.
      If a very nice person didn't show me how the game works in multiplayer, back when i just started playing, i would have never stayed. Especially nowadays, where the documentation and other help you can find online (tutorials etc) are mostly outdated and more irritating then helping. But it's also a lot more fun playing together. So maybe you give it a try.

      MChain, It's sad, that if you take away the creative building aspect from the game, that it's actually pretty difficult to have fun.
      Maybe we can use the stadium for some kind of arena team deathmatch game. maybe by requiring torches to get access to some assets and by making use of a bunch of blocks each team gets at the beginning, this could become a mixture out of tactical building, team works and fps :)
       
    15. MChain

      Joined:
      Jun 9, 2013
      Messages:
      105
      Hmmmm.... ACTUALLY Nocturna had showed me one station... It is here on the Docks. Utilizes shipyard to make reusable arenas. Name sounds similar to Z16-Arena, made by Noc and Techpriest. Dunno if there are any maps for it though. But it shouldn't be hard to do some

      As for mine, it is(was? can't find a blueprint) effectively just a proof of concept, and lacks any decor heavily. After all, it was meant to be just a large (200x100x100m or so)enclosed rectangular space to mess with a d3m ball using some small 5x7x6 shuttles and some logic stuff to keep track of scoring and game duration.
       
    16. happahappa

      Joined:
      Jun 19, 2016
      Messages:
      95
      hmm, i have to look that up. maybe we could make it like table soccer ... the team which scores 10 kills first, wins. or something like that.
      if we don't find something suitable, i'm sure we come up with something :)
      i kinda like the idea, that holding the games in the arena will ultimately lead to its (partial) destruction. :D
      but would loading it in the shipyard allow for damage? and we would have the annoying shipyard graphics for all blocks, right?
       
    17. petlahk

      Joined:
      Jul 30, 2013
      Messages:
      195
      Hello. You probably don't know me. I've been poking around Starmade for a while, and my thoughts on this subject actually go almost entirely against the grain of what people in this community believe is the reason why starmade died - I think partly because I'm not afraid to be honest. I doubt you or anyone else from this community will take them seriously - as that has been my experience with this community, but I would ask that you read them and consider them.

      I don't actually believe that the power update is to blame for the death of Starmade. I think that the power update, replete with it's chambers and weapon changes was actually a much needed change, and I frankly place blame on a lot of the long-standing members of the community who left because they felt the changes were untenable without attempting to see them in a larger focus. I actually place a lot of blame on this community for demanding so much of the devs, and railing against every change the devs created - and this blame falls on myself as well. However, I don't even think that this toxicity and control exhibited by the community is the sole reason Starmade has died either.

      The reason Starmade died is because there isn't enough to do. I'm not the first person to suggest this by far. Many, many people have suggested this before me. The factory system is great, but there's no reason to use it because once you build a large factory and stock it you're essentially just playing creative mode with more grind. The pirates system is interesting, but the pirates have never been balanced right, there has never been any challenge to them, and their faction has never felt real. The shipyard system was an interesting idea, but has always been buggy. And the worst offender has been that the automated mining was one-quarter implemented and still hasn't worked.

      But those are just cursory glitches to the reason starmade died. The reason is that there has been no fleshing out of the universes. There has been no resource scarcity introduced. There has been no fleshing out of the AI in years, there has been no flora or fauna introduced. There is nothing for a single-player person to do once they have a semi-capable ship except fly around and blow stuff up. There's not even a goal in mind at that point. There's no endgame.

      Minecraft initially didn't have an endgame, yes, but it had plenty of interesting things to do, such as build massive buildings, and mess with redstone. Besides, the end and the nether were challenges added very quickly in Minecraft's development. Many people have never beat the enderdragon or the wither vanilla in Minecraft to this day - including myself - but I know that it's there, and it's something to work toward. Working toward enchantments is sometimes just a grind, but it's still at least semi-difficult, involving problem solving to make efficient in the form of mob grinders.

      I'm not suggesting that Starmade be Minecraft, I'm suggesting that Starmade have end-goals that are challenging and fulfilling. If an update had come out to fix universe scarcity and to fix immersion, and to fix factions 5 years ago then the Starmade community would not only have not stagnated and left, but would have grown. If players could have controlled the trade of an in-game galaxy through hard negotiations, challenging wars with the AI, and the building of a custom fleet in the vein of Mount and Blade and Avorion, then there would have been things to keep players engaged. If players were able to find and defeat some massively difficult space-station in the galaxy, or even the next galaxy over, then there would have been something to do. If AI fleets were challenging to raid but rewarding to, if there were an extra dimension to defeat, if you could hone your pokemon to defeat the elite 4, if you could beat the game 4x style through factional diplomacy or conflict or tech tree mastery, IF THERE WERE A TECH TREE, if there were resource-scarcity, then the game would have been interesting. And I think that if the universe had been engaging in 2016, even, then players would not have thrown such a fit about the weapons update - because PvP was the only thing keeping players engaged in this game, which I feel is a massive injustice to what the developers originally sat down to do.

      While I do place blame on the community for this, for seeking to control the game's development. I do place blame on the developers as well, although I love them as they are human beings. When I first purchased this game on steam by eldest brother said to me, "I don't think the developers have any long-term plan for this game, and I think that will hurt them in the long-run." I denied this for the longest time, but he was correct. I do believe that the developers have a long-term goal in mind now, but their community has been toxic and controlling through-and-through. It's turned into an abusive cycle of developer V.S. player that has left everyone with emotional scars that need therapy and conversation to heal - pardon the analogy, but I don't believe it's too far off.

      I began trying to say two years ago that the community needed to demand less of the developers, and that the developers needed to take a step back and learn from other games before continuing on. That people needed to study why Minecraft was successful, take a look at things like AI: War Fleet Command which is interesting battles against AI done right - although the AI blatantly cheats. Things can be learned from Avorion, and the failure of no Man's sky, and Mount and Blade. Things could be learned from Minecraft Mods and spinoffs such as Terrafirmacraft. And lessons could have been taken from the 4x-genre (which in all fairness, is where the devs were trying to go, much to my appreciation) and games about trading in space. Many of these lessons can be learned from watching Extra-credits for an hour or two each day.

      But really, it's all of these things to blame. The developers lack of vision, the toxic control of the community, the lack of in game content, and the weapons/reactor update. All of these things are to blame for the failure of the game. At this point I believe it would be best for the developers to cut their losses, take what money they have, spend time on other projects, and maybe re-visit this game at a later date. I believe that the community needs to extend a truly open, and meaningful apology to the developers, and that the developers need to do the same to the community. Truly open discussion about why things failed, open minds, open hearts, and a tearing down of gate-keeping and toxicity is what needs to happen if this game has any chance of success left. And, if the developers do work on other projects, I strongly suggest they take the suggestion of Extra Credits - which was too late for this project - not to use Steam Greenlight.

      You asked why the game failed, all of those things are why the game failed. I just hope that people will one day actually read and think about what I have to say.
       
    18. ManhattenProject

      Joined:
      Jan 12, 2015
      Messages:
      7
      the game died because schine pushed p2 and w3 even with all the obvious problems with them, and then when those updates turned out to be complete garbage and made building and fighting a complete pain people just left. now the only people left are a few fanboys who refuse to accept that the base game is broken and will screech if you dare contradict them.
       
    19. Alphajim

      Joined:
      Jul 5, 2013
      Messages:
      137
      We can say the same about those who don't like the p2 and w3, manhatten.

      Anyway, the next major update will be decisive for the future of SM. It can make the game rise again, or destroy the last hopes we have in Schine.
       
      • Like Like x 2
    20. apelsinsaft

      Joined:
      Apr 23, 2013
      Messages:
      111
      Simple reason why this game got nowhere is because it got nowhere. Boot up the version of starmade from 2013 and it's exactly the same as today, minus a ton features that don't add up to an actual game.

      Shipyards, factories and production chains, logic, rails and new weapons and new power system and fancy new textures and a ton of different new blocks, none of these things add anything to any gameplay that isn't building ships. The game still feels like an ancient tech demo.
       
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