Thrust Mechanics Explained

[jath]

If multi directional thrust was that hard to accomplish, it wouldn't be used so commonly on so many aircraft. It would be even easier to accomplish in space since there is no drag. There are some turbine engines that can flip completely in reverse too. Rockets would do this even easier.

 

[lio_oVo_oil]

Jump drives need to be reworked; they should be somewhat less... usable. I don't mean that they should be useless, but they should have more advantages when used with carriers, or say flagships than fighters/bombers. A possible way for accomplishing this would be making a base energy cost, or a cool-down timer, and the system ALWAYS passively charging with some configurable (in-game) power allocations, like having individual systems utilize only a certain amount of power; i.e. 25% to passive jump drive recharge, 35% to thrust, 10% to shield-eating cannons, 15% to each of two lock-on missile systems.

This... hyper-drive is pretty nice, though I think it should open a "gap", or rather, a temporary warp gate that would allow smaller vessels to follow through in the short amount of time that is allotted (configurable of course), and after this allotted period, the gate would instantly disappear (with every ship even barely crossing the warp gate in time catching the hyper-space draft). The last issue I may see with this is the cost for teleporting from one sector to another. I would propose that the amount of base energy for traveling across one sector to be somewhat large, and increasing exponentially for each additional sector that the ship would "skip", and possibly (this would be a change to the "infinite" resources that a ship has) requiring some sort of rare (or not) material to jump (something like utilizing Uranium for power, instead of solar panels because 1kg of Uranium releases millions of times more power than a single solar array).[DOUBLEPOST=1412392327,1412392296][/DOUBLEPOST]Just realized this wasn't the suggestions forum...

 

[NeonSturm]

There are some turbine engines that can flip completely in reverse too. Rockets would do this even easier

Turning 90° or 180° in one plane (xy, yz or xz) or even in a half sphere is not the big problem

But the mechanisms required are more expensive and also weight - if just a bit - more than the static counterparts.
Even if not that much as 2 or 3 thrusters.​

But thrusters should not have a full 360° angle - not if they expel an exhaust which can hit your ship.

As long as thrusters have an exhaust (for heat-seekers) they will be limited to deliver no thrust in 1 direction
which is equal to two thrusters having 1/2 thrust in 2 direction and equal to 6 thrusters having 5/6 thrust in all directions.

Now count maybe 120% weight for the turning mechanism and flexible fuel-supply-tubes and you get:
"/(6/5)" == "*5/6"
1 * 5/6 * 5/6 == 1 * 25/36 == roughly 2/3 efficiency in directions other than the main.​

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

So if I'm understanding this correctly, we will need 6 TIMES the number of thrusters just to maintain our ships' performance?

This is a terrible idea IMO

*Edit*
I've also never seen "capital ships flying backwards and blasting their pursuers" (which isn't a problem anyways because weapon ranges are nerfed)

Battles always involve ships trying to turn fast enough to shoot the enemy without getting shot themselves

 

[Lecic]

So if I'm understanding this correctly, we will need 6 TIMES the number of thrusters just to maintain our ships' performance?

This is a terrible idea IMO

No. The point is that your ship WILL NOT have the same amount of thrust in every direction like they do now. It's to balance combat. Smaller vessels can accelerate around faster, as they need less in thing besides forward. Meanwhile, larger ships will need to put more in side to side to be able to move around well. This is mainly to get rid of the current combat of "drive backwards at max speed while firing at the pursuer"

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

Ships already need to be 1/5 - 1/4 thruster blocks in order to reach a reasonable speed (with less, they can't even hit top speed)

Unless thrusters are given a 400%-600% thrust boost per block, this will kill every ship design out there

You CANNOT have a system like this where inertial damping constantly works against acceleration. Yes of course servers can turn it off but nobody will use something that isn't part of the default game

Also to the people suggesting "exponential power increase for thrusters", doing so would put an artificial cap on ship size (again). Therefore it is a terrible idea

 

[FunnyBunny14]

That is why they're thinking if increasing thrust per thruster, and to balance it they're going to make the power increase exponentially.

 

[NeonSturm]

I vote for

(( Thrust you can produce | Power you should require = x^(a*b*c) / (a*b)
)) where c is the longest axis and a the shortest

Basically thrust and power = x^(3/2) with a slight penalty on thrust but with constant, not scaling space drag.

 

[Proxima_Centauri]

That is why they're thinking if increasing thrust per thruster, and to balance it they're going to make the power increase exponentially.

There is already a mechanic working against larger ships. The more massive your ship is, then the more thrusters it needs and the more power it needs (due to more thrusters).

Can you please explain why you think an exponential increase in power requirements will somehow "balance" the game, instead of breaking it even more?

 

[FunnyBunny14]

The combination of the assigning of thrust and the 'more thrust per thruster but also more power exponentially' will give a nice balance to everything.

They will need to remove the turning speed based on dimentions for fighters to be fun though.

 

[lio_oVo_oil]

That is why they're thinking if increasing thrust per thruster, and to balance it they're going to make the power increase exponentially.

Pretty sure that says that thrust will be increased as well.

I don't think that large ships should have to suffer some unbearable 20-30 km/h when the max speed is set to 200. Although I have responded with contrast to this believe, larger ships SHOULD be penalized; who wants a titan going from 0 km/h to 200 (or 400) km/h in half a second? I don't want to even think of massive ships going that quickly (or faster), other than by using jump drives (or the soon-to-be hyper-drive).

 

[SilentRider_14]

When this thread was started I know we were all ooooh and aaaaaaah about ftl but did your forget

Linear Thrust, Exponential Power Usage​

Currently the thrust blocks on a ship are added up to determine the amount of thrust a ship gains. The thrust gained per block is slightly less for every additional block added, while the power usage is linearly based on the amount of thrust granted.

1 thrust block = 4.4 ship thrust & 4.4 power used
100 thrust blocks = 1795 ship thrust & 1795 power used
*Rough estimates*
​

The change to thrust blocks we are considering is to make the thrust gained per block linear, while putting the power usage on an exponentially increasing curve.

1 thrust block = 5 ship thrust & 5 power used
100 thrust blocks = 5000 ship thrust and 7500 power used
*Rough example*​

What this means is that ships can achieve higher amounts of thrust with the same number of blocks that they have now, however, this increase comes with an even higher cost to power the more thrust blocks their are on a ship. However, larger ships incurring this larger power usage can mitigate this power usage by slowing down when they need more power, or stopping entirely.

Calbiri​

Current system balance is thrown off by the fact that as power lines grown in size so does the amount of power gained with nearly each block. At around 140 power blocks we start getting around a thousand per block and at 450 power blocks we are near max efficiency per block.

You want to keep complaining that it has "no reason" why your big ship is at a "disadvantage" and I want a new game mechanic and more pretty blocks; afterall you wont need as many thruster blocks.

Thermal storage to quickly keep waste heat buildup from frying your systems (maybe comes with passive/ weak radiation) and active/strong radiators similar to howsshields are currently setup. Thermal storage look like the duct work for vents and the radiators could be the vent grills.

 

[ltmauve]

You are forgetting two things: One, there is a cap to power bonuses. Two, there is no throttle. Thrust is either full on or full off, so you can't "reduce thrust" like Calbiri said.

 

[Lecic]

You are forgetting two things: One, there is a cap to power bonuses. Two, there is no throttle. Thrust is either full on or full off, so you can't "reduce thrust" like Calbiri said.

I'm usually against these types of things, but I've got to say- Docked Generators. You can bypass the power cap with them.

 

[Ithirahad]

I'm usually against these types of things, but I've got to say- Docked Generators. You can bypass the power cap with them.

Why would you be against docked generators? They're probably currently the only interesting and unique technical building mechanic in the game TBH.

 

[Lecic]

Why would you be against docked generators? They're probably currently the only interesting and unique technical building mechanic in the game TBH.

I think onboard systems should all be built with "most efficient" shapes in mind, but that's really a topic for another thread.

 

[lio_oVo_oil]

You are forgetting two things: One, there is a cap to power bonuses. Two, there is no throttle. Thrust is either full on or full off, so you can't "reduce thrust" like Calbiri said.

Though thrust is always in the highest gear, you forget that you can tap the reverse thrust button (because I don't know if we all have it set to 's' or the down arrow key or some other config) to slow down your ship (if the server you're playing on doesn't have inertial dampening, or you're in single-player and have disabled it), or you simply tap shift to gradually slow down at a faster rate when inertial dampening is active.

(Off-topic) I would love to see some type of "cruising speed" setting (paired with an 'on' and 'off' key) to allow my 40 km journey to be reduced to a simple trip to the kitchen for a sandwich and back.
This is a terrible idea actually; it would encourage people to go light years out into the galaxy, where you would find no one, and never be bothered by anything, save a pirate every now and again.

 

[ltmauve]

Though thrust is always in the highest gear, you forget that you can tap the reverse thrust button to slow down your ship

Slowing down uses power, even if you are moving forward. The point of a throttle is that you can set your engines low enough to be power stable once you are up to speed.

 

[lio_oVo_oil]

The whole point of movement is to use power...

 

[Malacodor]

The whole point of movement is to use power...

I'd rather say the whole point of movement is to move.